The Current State of Rugby
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@Steve I'm not sure the empty stadiums are quite as much of an issue, however it may well be, as you say, it isn't a great look on TV, and with media painting a picture and then empty stadiums...?
I think the broadcast dollar rules, meaning the bums on seats matters little in that aspect, but rugby has moved off from being a big part of everyone's lives to people watching on TV if they don't have anything else on.
I know in my late teens-early 20s, a Friday night home game for northland was huge, we all went, smuggled a hip flask in, got sloshed and hit the town after
I personally haven't been to a super game for, I can't remember actually (but will probably be last time the Blues were up here, although don't think they have been here since 2013 which was my last super game at EP) but i go to every northland home game and the odd one away.
I watch club footy every week, so I still love the game, but I would say my interest from the top down has waned, particularly at super level, for the ABs, probably since 2019 things have been rocky in that relationship.
@taniwharugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Steve I'm not sure the empty stadiums are quite as much of an issue, however it may well be, as you say, it isn't a great look on TV, and with media painting a picture and then empty stadiums...?
I think the broadcast dollar rules, meaning the bums on seats matters little in that aspect, but rugby has moved off from being a big part of everyone's lives to people watching on TV if they don't have anything else on.
I know in my late teens-early 20s, a Friday night home game for northland was huge, we all went, smuggled a hip flask in, got sloshed and hit the town after
I personally haven't been to a super game for, I can't remember actually (but will probably be last time the Blues were up here, although don't think they have been here since 2013 which was my last super game at EP) but i go to every northland home game and the odd one away.
I watch club footy every week, so I still love the game, but I would say my interest from the top down has waned, particularly at super level, for the ABs, probably since 2019 things have been rocky in that relationship.
re the bums on seats, im just concerned...and i might be wrong....but im concerned that in the long run its just going to be harder to sell this product for big tv bucks if it looks like no one cares about it on screen, so whilst the dollars the ground generates directly are not as important...that is the representation of how good the game is...does that make sense?
agree with getting down to club games though, i enjoy them much more, ive documented on here finding a club in melbourne and managing one of their teams, i also think thats why i lament the disconnection the different levels, ive talked before about super games kicking off whilst clubs games are still underway literally making it impossible for rugby fans to watch the games
i just dont get the seemly deliberate attempt to separate local rugby communities from the professional end of the game
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@mikedogz seems like a huge uptick, hopefully we can keep it up
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@taniwharugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Steve I'm not sure the empty stadiums are quite as much of an issue, however it may well be, as you say, it isn't a great look on TV, and with media painting a picture and then empty stadiums...?
I think the broadcast dollar rules, meaning the bums on seats matters little in that aspect, but rugby has moved off from being a big part of everyone's lives to people watching on TV if they don't have anything else on.
I know in my late teens-early 20s, a Friday night home game for northland was huge, we all went, smuggled a hip flask in, got sloshed and hit the town after
I personally haven't been to a super game for, I can't remember actually (but will probably be last time the Blues were up here, although don't think they have been here since 2013 which was my last super game at EP) but i go to every northland home game and the odd one away.
I watch club footy every week, so I still love the game, but I would say my interest from the top down has waned, particularly at super level, for the ABs, probably since 2019 things have been rocky in that relationship.
re the bums on seats, im just concerned...and i might be wrong....but im concerned that in the long run its just going to be harder to sell this product for big tv bucks if it looks like no one cares about it on screen, so whilst the dollars the ground generates directly are not as important...that is the representation of how good the game is...does that make sense?
agree with getting down to club games though, i enjoy them much more, ive documented on here finding a club in melbourne and managing one of their teams, i also think thats why i lament the disconnection the different levels, ive talked before about super games kicking off whilst clubs games are still underway literally making it impossible for rugby fans to watch the games
i just dont get the seemly deliberate attempt to separate local rugby communities from the professional end of the game
@Kiwiwomble said in The Current State of Rugby:
re the bums on seats, im just concerned...and i might be wrong....but im concerned that in the long run its just going to be harder to sell this product for big tv bucks if it looks like no one cares about it on screen, so whilst the dollars the ground generates directly are not as important...that is the representation of how good the game is...does that make sense?
agree with getting down to club games though, i enjoy them much more, ive documented on here finding a club in melbourne and managing one of their teams, i also think thats why i lament the disconnection the different levels, ive talked before about super games kicking off whilst clubs games are still underway literally making it impossible for rugby fans to watch the games
i just dont get the seemly deliberate attempt to separate local rugby communities from the professional end of the game
This must be a purely Australian location perspective in a Trans- Ta$man competition? Trying to watch NZ games starting at 5:30 local time?
Unless things have changed the last few years and I'm about to talk out of my arse (proving a point of Gourdie's article? I'm making a comment based on my opinions from about 5 years ago, because I no longer watch rugby and so don't have an 'informed' opinion on current scheduling ...)
For most of the last 20 years, in whatever guise SR has been in - In NZ there's usually only 2 NZ-based games per week and they are played respectively on Fri and Sat nights.
Which brings it's own problem I've banged on about for years. kids bedtimes ....
Whereas NRL, for e.g. Before they sold out for the TV money and brought in Monday night and Thuesday night etc etc, used to load their games on a Sunday afternoon. With single Friday night, Saturday afternoon, Saturday night matches for the TV (with a few out-of-NSW exceptions ). A benefit of having a comp that can schedule more than a measly 2 'home' games per weekend.
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@Kiwiwomble said in The Current State of Rugby:
re the bums on seats, im just concerned...and i might be wrong....but im concerned that in the long run its just going to be harder to sell this product for big tv bucks if it looks like no one cares about it on screen, so whilst the dollars the ground generates directly are not as important...that is the representation of how good the game is...does that make sense?
agree with getting down to club games though, i enjoy them much more, ive documented on here finding a club in melbourne and managing one of their teams, i also think thats why i lament the disconnection the different levels, ive talked before about super games kicking off whilst clubs games are still underway literally making it impossible for rugby fans to watch the games
i just dont get the seemly deliberate attempt to separate local rugby communities from the professional end of the game
This must be a purely Australian location perspective in a Trans- Ta$man competition? Trying to watch NZ games starting at 5:30 local time?
Unless things have changed the last few years and I'm about to talk out of my arse (proving a point of Gourdie's article? I'm making a comment based on my opinions from about 5 years ago, because I no longer watch rugby and so don't have an 'informed' opinion on current scheduling ...)
For most of the last 20 years, in whatever guise SR has been in - In NZ there's usually only 2 NZ-based games per week and they are played respectively on Fri and Sat nights.
Which brings it's own problem I've banged on about for years. kids bedtimes ....
Whereas NRL, for e.g. Before they sold out for the TV money and brought in Monday night and Thuesday night etc etc, used to load their games on a Sunday afternoon. With single Friday night, Saturday afternoon, Saturday night matches for the TV (with a few out-of-NSW exceptions ). A benefit of having a comp that can schedule more than a measly 2 'home' games per weekend.
@Rapido its definitely an aussie problem but i think we need to stop looking at us and them and try and try and be more collaborative...or actually go it alone and have seperate comps
Its true though when i lived in chch, as someone without kids it was the standard line from mates with them when i asked if they wanted to go to a game....will have to come after bath/bed time so wont get there till after 730...so at most would go to the pub and watch
where as in the 90's i distinctly remember club games being moved to 12 kick offs so people could all go down to the brook and watch the Highlanders/all blacks at 2:35 (when games clashed), we use to put a bus on from kettle park up the road so everyone could get there
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It's not just the drag on Dad's (or Mum's) time in the early evenings - when they have under 5s.
It's more 'exponential' than that.
It's the actual attendance. Dad + 1 kid at a stadium - is a 100% increase on just Dad. Dad + 1 kid is an infinity % increase on zero Dad. Family of 4 ... you get the point
12 year olds , or 16 year olds not watching because they never got into it back when they were 7 or 8 year olds. Because they were in bed, or because Dad couldn't be arsed with the hassle of taking them to a night game.
As a parent, I'm now passed the under-5s consuming my early evenings. However, I am often searching for something to fill in our time on nice Saturday or Sunday afternoons. I am never, 0%, ever trying to find something for us to do as a family at 7:30 on a Saturday night.
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It's not just the drag on Dad's (or Mum's) time in the early evenings - when they have under 5s.
It's more 'exponential' than that.
It's the actual attendance. Dad + 1 kid at a stadium - is a 100% increase on just Dad. Dad + 1 kid is an infinity % increase on zero Dad. Family of 4 ... you get the point
12 year olds , or 16 year olds not watching because they never got into it back when they were 7 or 8 year olds. Because they were in bed, or because Dad couldn't be arsed with the hassle of taking them to a night game.
As a parent, I'm now passed the under-5s consuming my early evenings. However, I am often searching for something to fill in our time on nice Saturday or Sunday afternoons. I am never, 0%, ever trying to find something for us to do as a family at 7:30 on a Saturday night.
@Rapido and modern stadiums are a hell of a lot nicer/safer than the urine soaked gravel terraces we spent time on as kids
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BTW. I'm not talking every week, season ticket-holder, sort of behaviour.
I'm talking, just enough times, spur of the moment, nice afternoons. Enough to get some youngsters hooked. Enough to get a family of 4 buying some tickets.
Basically. Look at Tauranga crowds in the NPC with their floodlightless Domain.
That is the size of the market we excluded by going for 'quality' ( just 5 teams) in a competition spread over time zones.
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@taniwharugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Steve I'm not sure the empty stadiums are quite as much of an issue, however it may well be, as you say, it isn't a great look on TV, and with media painting a picture and then empty stadiums...?
I think the broadcast dollar rules, meaning the bums on seats matters little in that aspect, but rugby has moved off from being a big part of everyone's lives to people watching on TV if they don't have anything else on.
I know in my late teens-early 20s, a Friday night home game for northland was huge, we all went, smuggled a hip flask in, got sloshed and hit the town after
I personally haven't been to a super game for, I can't remember actually (but will probably be last time the Blues were up here, although don't think they have been here since 2013 which was my last super game at EP) but i go to every northland home game and the odd one away.
I watch club footy every week, so I still love the game, but I would say my interest from the top down has waned, particularly at super level, for the ABs, probably since 2019 things have been rocky in that relationship.
re the bums on seats, im just concerned...and i might be wrong....but im concerned that in the long run its just going to be harder to sell this product for big tv bucks if it looks like no one cares about it on screen, so whilst the dollars the ground generates directly are not as important...that is the representation of how good the game is...does that make sense?
agree with getting down to club games though, i enjoy them much more, ive documented on here finding a club in melbourne and managing one of their teams, i also think thats why i lament the disconnection the different levels, ive talked before about super games kicking off whilst clubs games are still underway literally making it impossible for rugby fans to watch the games
i just dont get the seemly deliberate attempt to separate local rugby communities from the professional end of the game
@Kiwiwomble agree, short term, not much of an issue, long term, probably...but to poit that NZR dont seem bothered about bums on seats is NPC games schedules mid-winter at 7pm on a Wed/Thurs...no way conducive to attracting new punters, let alone being family friendly.
I recall a game (was a Thursday IIRC) in 2007 v Ta$man, sideways rain, be lucky if there was 1,000 people there to see the stunning 9-3 victory!
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Afternoon games still clash with club rugby on a Sat and, for those like myself, people who play sport on a Sunday (those two scheduled NPC games). It was easier when most of us were kids as the club rugby season didn't clash with NPC, and 2/2:30 pm KOs were great.
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Afternoon games still clash with club rugby on a Sat and, for those like myself, people who play sport on a Sunday (those two scheduled NPC games). It was easier when most of us were kids as the club rugby season didn't clash with NPC, and 2/2:30 pm KOs were great.
@Bovidae said in The Current State of Rugby:
Afternoon games still clash with club rugby on a Sat and, for those like myself, people who play sport on a Sunday (those two scheduled NPC games). It was easier when most of us were kids as the club rugby season didn't clash with NPC, and 2/2:30 pm KOs were great.
In Wellington we just used to get our prem and senior one games scheduled earlier, so they might be at 11am and 1pm. Maybe some of the lower grades didn't play those weekends, I don't actually know.
Great for the clubs really, as you're more likely to get people down cos they will watch the rep game at the club and people that watch the prems will stick around at the club to watch the rep game.
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@Bovidae said in The Current State of Rugby:
Afternoon games still clash with club rugby on a Sat and, for those like myself, people who play sport on a Sunday (those two scheduled NPC games). It was easier when most of us were kids as the club rugby season didn't clash with NPC, and 2/2:30 pm KOs were great.
In Wellington we just used to get our prem and senior one games scheduled earlier, so they might be at 11am and 1pm. Maybe some of the lower grades didn't play those weekends, I don't actually know.
Great for the clubs really, as you're more likely to get people down cos they will watch the rep game at the club and people that watch the prems will stick around at the club to watch the rep game.
@Bones as i said above thats what we did in dunedin too, only for games where the Highlanders or AB's were playing in town
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Pretty sure Saturday work makes moving club stuff harder
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Afternoon games still clash with club rugby on a Sat and, for those like myself, people who play sport on a Sunday (those two scheduled NPC games). It was easier when most of us were kids as the club rugby season didn't clash with NPC, and 2/2:30 pm KOs were great.
@Bovidae said in The Current State of Rugby:
Afternoon games still clash with club rugby on a Sat and, for those like myself, people who play sport on a Sunday (those two scheduled NPC games). It was easier when most of us were kids as the club rugby season didn't clash with NPC, and 2/2:30 pm KOs were great.
NPC rugby doesn't start until club rugby finshes, so they don't clash now do they? I know the odd Super game on sunday arvo has maybe clashed with Sunday rugby, but is there actually a problem?
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@Bovidae said in The Current State of Rugby:
Afternoon games still clash with club rugby on a Sat and, for those like myself, people who play sport on a Sunday (those two scheduled NPC games). It was easier when most of us were kids as the club rugby season didn't clash with NPC, and 2/2:30 pm KOs were great.
NPC rugby doesn't start until club rugby finshes, so they don't clash now do they? I know the odd Super game on sunday arvo has maybe clashed with Sunday rugby, but is there actually a problem?
@Dan54 said in The Current State of Rugby:
NPC rugby doesn't start until club rugby finshes, so they don't clash now do they? I know the odd Super game on sunday arvo has maybe clashed with Sunday rugby, but is there actually a problem?
My two sentences refer to the situations "now" and "then". Club rugby now clashes with any afternoon SR game. For example, the Chiefs played the Reds at 4:35 pm but there was still local club rugby. The Premiers played at 2:45 pm (their normal start time), and while they could have moved it forward, all games would need to have started earlier to accommodate that.
NPC still has two Sunday games, which was the point I made for my situation and Sunday sport.
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@Dan54 said in The Current State of Rugby:
NPC rugby doesn't start until club rugby finshes, so they don't clash now do they? I know the odd Super game on sunday arvo has maybe clashed with Sunday rugby, but is there actually a problem?
My two sentences refer to the situations "now" and "then". Club rugby now clashes with any afternoon SR game. For example, the Chiefs played the Reds at 4:35 pm but there was still local club rugby. The Premiers played at 2:45 pm (their normal start time), and while they could have moved it forward, all games would need to have started earlier to accommodate that.
NPC still has two Sunday games, which was the point I made for my situation and Sunday sport.
@Bovidae said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Dan54 said in The Current State of Rugby:
NPC rugby doesn't start until club rugby finshes, so they don't clash now do they? I know the odd Super game on sunday arvo has maybe clashed with Sunday rugby, but is there actually a problem?
My two sentences refer to the situations "now" and "then". Club rugby now clashes with any afternoon SR game. For example, the Chiefs played the Reds at 4:35 pm but there was still local club rugby. The Premiers played at 2:45 pm (their normal start time), and while they could have moved it forward, all games would need to have started earlier to accommodate that.
NPC still has two Sunday games, which was the point I made for my situation and Sunday sport.
Fair enough mate, sorry I forgot about the QFs, though to be fair they really needed to have those games on Saturday, with SFs this week, to unfair perhaps for teams playing Sunday with short turn around etc perhaps?
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This argument of TV money vs bums on seats balancing out surely has more nuance to it.....
The Heineken cup (or whatever it is called now) up North has a sense of occasion about each game.
The stadiums have atmosphere and are generally rammed.
Seeing Danes Coles run on for his final home game to 12 people and a dog is just deflating.
The optics are terrible.
I find it jarring when I watch the highlights and the commentator be it an Aussie or Kiwi is trying to give the viewer a gee up "week 11 in super rugby and its a top of the table clash between Brumbies and Chiefs".....cuts to two teams running out to a handful of people. It's all quite odd.
It seems unsustainable to me. If the locals are that disenfranchised. Either its too expensive, on at inconvenient times, or people don't care enough any more. And that should worry the various Unions and Authorities involved.
