The Current State of Rugby
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@taniwharugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Steve I'm not sure the empty stadiums are quite as much of an issue, however it may well be, as you say, it isn't a great look on TV, and with media painting a picture and then empty stadiums...?
I think the broadcast dollar rules, meaning the bums on seats matters little in that aspect, but rugby has moved off from being a big part of everyone's lives to people watching on TV if they don't have anything else on.
I know in my late teens-early 20s, a Friday night home game for northland was huge, we all went, smuggled a hip flask in, got sloshed and hit the town after
I personally haven't been to a super game for, I can't remember actually (but will probably be last time the Blues were up here, although don't think they have been here since 2013 which was my last super game at EP) but i go to every northland home game and the odd one away.
I watch club footy every week, so I still love the game, but I would say my interest from the top down has waned, particularly at super level, for the ABs, probably since 2019 things have been rocky in that relationship.
re the bums on seats, im just concerned...and i might be wrong....but im concerned that in the long run its just going to be harder to sell this product for big tv bucks if it looks like no one cares about it on screen, so whilst the dollars the ground generates directly are not as important...that is the representation of how good the game is...does that make sense?
agree with getting down to club games though, i enjoy them much more, ive documented on here finding a club in melbourne and managing one of their teams, i also think thats why i lament the disconnection the different levels, ive talked before about super games kicking off whilst clubs games are still underway literally making it impossible for rugby fans to watch the games
i just dont get the seemly deliberate attempt to separate local rugby communities from the professional end of the game
@Kiwiwomble agree, short term, not much of an issue, long term, probably...but to poit that NZR dont seem bothered about bums on seats is NPC games schedules mid-winter at 7pm on a Wed/Thurs...no way conducive to attracting new punters, let alone being family friendly.
I recall a game (was a Thursday IIRC) in 2007 v Ta$man, sideways rain, be lucky if there was 1,000 people there to see the stunning 9-3 victory!
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Afternoon games still clash with club rugby on a Sat and, for those like myself, people who play sport on a Sunday (those two scheduled NPC games). It was easier when most of us were kids as the club rugby season didn't clash with NPC, and 2/2:30 pm KOs were great.
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Afternoon games still clash with club rugby on a Sat and, for those like myself, people who play sport on a Sunday (those two scheduled NPC games). It was easier when most of us were kids as the club rugby season didn't clash with NPC, and 2/2:30 pm KOs were great.
@Bovidae said in The Current State of Rugby:
Afternoon games still clash with club rugby on a Sat and, for those like myself, people who play sport on a Sunday (those two scheduled NPC games). It was easier when most of us were kids as the club rugby season didn't clash with NPC, and 2/2:30 pm KOs were great.
In Wellington we just used to get our prem and senior one games scheduled earlier, so they might be at 11am and 1pm. Maybe some of the lower grades didn't play those weekends, I don't actually know.
Great for the clubs really, as you're more likely to get people down cos they will watch the rep game at the club and people that watch the prems will stick around at the club to watch the rep game.
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@Bovidae said in The Current State of Rugby:
Afternoon games still clash with club rugby on a Sat and, for those like myself, people who play sport on a Sunday (those two scheduled NPC games). It was easier when most of us were kids as the club rugby season didn't clash with NPC, and 2/2:30 pm KOs were great.
In Wellington we just used to get our prem and senior one games scheduled earlier, so they might be at 11am and 1pm. Maybe some of the lower grades didn't play those weekends, I don't actually know.
Great for the clubs really, as you're more likely to get people down cos they will watch the rep game at the club and people that watch the prems will stick around at the club to watch the rep game.
@Bones as i said above thats what we did in dunedin too, only for games where the Highlanders or AB's were playing in town
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Pretty sure Saturday work makes moving club stuff harder
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Afternoon games still clash with club rugby on a Sat and, for those like myself, people who play sport on a Sunday (those two scheduled NPC games). It was easier when most of us were kids as the club rugby season didn't clash with NPC, and 2/2:30 pm KOs were great.
@Bovidae said in The Current State of Rugby:
Afternoon games still clash with club rugby on a Sat and, for those like myself, people who play sport on a Sunday (those two scheduled NPC games). It was easier when most of us were kids as the club rugby season didn't clash with NPC, and 2/2:30 pm KOs were great.
NPC rugby doesn't start until club rugby finshes, so they don't clash now do they? I know the odd Super game on sunday arvo has maybe clashed with Sunday rugby, but is there actually a problem?
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@Bovidae said in The Current State of Rugby:
Afternoon games still clash with club rugby on a Sat and, for those like myself, people who play sport on a Sunday (those two scheduled NPC games). It was easier when most of us were kids as the club rugby season didn't clash with NPC, and 2/2:30 pm KOs were great.
NPC rugby doesn't start until club rugby finshes, so they don't clash now do they? I know the odd Super game on sunday arvo has maybe clashed with Sunday rugby, but is there actually a problem?
@Dan54 said in The Current State of Rugby:
NPC rugby doesn't start until club rugby finshes, so they don't clash now do they? I know the odd Super game on sunday arvo has maybe clashed with Sunday rugby, but is there actually a problem?
My two sentences refer to the situations "now" and "then". Club rugby now clashes with any afternoon SR game. For example, the Chiefs played the Reds at 4:35 pm but there was still local club rugby. The Premiers played at 2:45 pm (their normal start time), and while they could have moved it forward, all games would need to have started earlier to accommodate that.
NPC still has two Sunday games, which was the point I made for my situation and Sunday sport.
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@Dan54 said in The Current State of Rugby:
NPC rugby doesn't start until club rugby finshes, so they don't clash now do they? I know the odd Super game on sunday arvo has maybe clashed with Sunday rugby, but is there actually a problem?
My two sentences refer to the situations "now" and "then". Club rugby now clashes with any afternoon SR game. For example, the Chiefs played the Reds at 4:35 pm but there was still local club rugby. The Premiers played at 2:45 pm (their normal start time), and while they could have moved it forward, all games would need to have started earlier to accommodate that.
NPC still has two Sunday games, which was the point I made for my situation and Sunday sport.
@Bovidae said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Dan54 said in The Current State of Rugby:
NPC rugby doesn't start until club rugby finshes, so they don't clash now do they? I know the odd Super game on sunday arvo has maybe clashed with Sunday rugby, but is there actually a problem?
My two sentences refer to the situations "now" and "then". Club rugby now clashes with any afternoon SR game. For example, the Chiefs played the Reds at 4:35 pm but there was still local club rugby. The Premiers played at 2:45 pm (their normal start time), and while they could have moved it forward, all games would need to have started earlier to accommodate that.
NPC still has two Sunday games, which was the point I made for my situation and Sunday sport.
Fair enough mate, sorry I forgot about the QFs, though to be fair they really needed to have those games on Saturday, with SFs this week, to unfair perhaps for teams playing Sunday with short turn around etc perhaps?
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This argument of TV money vs bums on seats balancing out surely has more nuance to it.....
The Heineken cup (or whatever it is called now) up North has a sense of occasion about each game.
The stadiums have atmosphere and are generally rammed.
Seeing Danes Coles run on for his final home game to 12 people and a dog is just deflating.
The optics are terrible.
I find it jarring when I watch the highlights and the commentator be it an Aussie or Kiwi is trying to give the viewer a gee up "week 11 in super rugby and its a top of the table clash between Brumbies and Chiefs".....cuts to two teams running out to a handful of people. It's all quite odd.
It seems unsustainable to me. If the locals are that disenfranchised. Either its too expensive, on at inconvenient times, or people don't care enough any more. And that should worry the various Unions and Authorities involved.
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@mikedogz I'm really not surprised. I think the games this year have been bloody great and the law changes improved the game no end.
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@mikedogz said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Victor-Meldrew said in The Current State of Rugby:
@mikedogz I'm really not surprised. I think the games this year have been bloody great and the law changes improved the game no end.
Heresy. Everyone knows Super Rugby is fucked.
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@mikedogz said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Victor-Meldrew said in The Current State of Rugby:
@mikedogz I'm really not surprised. I think the games this year have been bloody great and the law changes improved the game no end.
Heresy. Everyone knows Super Rugby is fucked.
I genuinely think, in terms of quality of play, skill and well, sheer entertainment, I think we're living in a Rugby golden age.
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This argument of TV money vs bums on seats balancing out surely has more nuance to it.....
The Heineken cup (or whatever it is called now) up North has a sense of occasion about each game.
The stadiums have atmosphere and are generally rammed.
Seeing Danes Coles run on for his final home game to 12 people and a dog is just deflating.
The optics are terrible.
I find it jarring when I watch the highlights and the commentator be it an Aussie or Kiwi is trying to give the viewer a gee up "week 11 in super rugby and its a top of the table clash between Brumbies and Chiefs".....cuts to two teams running out to a handful of people. It's all quite odd.
It seems unsustainable to me. If the locals are that disenfranchised. Either its too expensive, on at inconvenient times, or people don't care enough any more. And that should worry the various Unions and Authorities involved.
@Steve said in The Current State of Rugby:
This argument of TV money vs bums on seats balancing out surely has more nuance to it.....
The Heineken cup (or whatever it is called now) up North has a sense of occasion about each game.
The stadiums have atmosphere and are generally rammed.
Seeing Danes Coles run on for his final home game to 12 people and a dog is just deflating.
The optics are terrible.
I find it jarring when I watch the highlights and the commentator be it an Aussie or Kiwi is trying to give the viewer a gee up "week 11 in super rugby and its a top of the table clash between Brumbies and Chiefs".....cuts to two teams running out to a handful of people. It's all quite odd.
It seems unsustainable to me. If the locals are that disenfranchised. Either its too expensive, on at inconvenient times, or people don't care enough any more. And that should worry the various Unions and Authorities involved.
Firstly I think NZers don't attend sport any more. Aussie have a different crowd demographic for rugby so my comment doesn't include them.
Evening games in winter in particular. Good on NZR for changing to the 7pm kick-off, which alleviates some of that. And good on them for having earlier games.
But it's not the standard of the Rugby that is affecting crowds. Somehow they need to make it more attractive, easier and cheaper for people to go.
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@Steve said in The Current State of Rugby:
This argument of TV money vs bums on seats balancing out surely has more nuance to it.....
The Heineken cup (or whatever it is called now) up North has a sense of occasion about each game.
The stadiums have atmosphere and are generally rammed.
Seeing Danes Coles run on for his final home game to 12 people and a dog is just deflating.
The optics are terrible.
I find it jarring when I watch the highlights and the commentator be it an Aussie or Kiwi is trying to give the viewer a gee up "week 11 in super rugby and its a top of the table clash between Brumbies and Chiefs".....cuts to two teams running out to a handful of people. It's all quite odd.
It seems unsustainable to me. If the locals are that disenfranchised. Either its too expensive, on at inconvenient times, or people don't care enough any more. And that should worry the various Unions and Authorities involved.
Firstly I think NZers don't attend sport any more. Aussie have a different crowd demographic for rugby so my comment doesn't include them.
Evening games in winter in particular. Good on NZR for changing to the 7pm kick-off, which alleviates some of that. And good on them for having earlier games.
But it's not the standard of the Rugby that is affecting crowds. Somehow they need to make it more attractive, easier and cheaper for people to go.
@booboo said in The Current State of Rugby:
But it's not the standard of the Rugby that is affecting crowds. Somehow they need to make it more attractive, easier and cheaper for people to go.
It is for me, but I've largely fallen out of love for professional rugby. Appreciate I'm a sample of 1, but I can't be bothered as much any more; I'll still watch and support, but it's dropped well down my priority list. A lot of that is to do with the quality of the game these days; I find it far more grinding and less imagininative than we had. Modern defences, refs, laws and bulked up players don't help. There's arguably better watching at Club or NPC
So, not taking a season ticket next year for the first time in 17 years. I'll go, but will pick and choose the games around my life outside the oval ball
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This argument of TV money vs bums on seats balancing out surely has more nuance to it.....
The Heineken cup (or whatever it is called now) up North has a sense of occasion about each game.
The stadiums have atmosphere and are generally rammed.
Seeing Danes Coles run on for his final home game to 12 people and a dog is just deflating.
The optics are terrible.
I find it jarring when I watch the highlights and the commentator be it an Aussie or Kiwi is trying to give the viewer a gee up "week 11 in super rugby and its a top of the table clash between Brumbies and Chiefs".....cuts to two teams running out to a handful of people. It's all quite odd.
It seems unsustainable to me. If the locals are that disenfranchised. Either its too expensive, on at inconvenient times, or people don't care enough any more. And that should worry the various Unions and Authorities involved.
@Steve yeah the lack of bums on seats is poor optics, and will probably sway a few dollars from TV sponsors, although if NZR/Sky have good viewer stats, again, not a major right now.
@nzzp yeah I'm with you, I'm not bothered if I miss a super game anymore, although this weekends games do move up in importance.
Sky has changed the way we watch as well though, I mean it is at least a dozen years since I last got up in the middle of the night to watch a test, and worse, in recent years, I'll look at the result and then decide if I want to scan the game, watch extended highlights or skip it all together.
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@Steve yeah the lack of bums on seats is poor optics, and will probably sway a few dollars from TV sponsors, although if NZR/Sky have good viewer stats, again, not a major right now.
@nzzp yeah I'm with you, I'm not bothered if I miss a super game anymore, although this weekends games do move up in importance.
Sky has changed the way we watch as well though, I mean it is at least a dozen years since I last got up in the middle of the night to watch a test, and worse, in recent years, I'll look at the result and then decide if I want to scan the game, watch extended highlights or skip it all together.
@taniwharugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Steve yeah the lack of bums on seats is poor optics, and will probably sway a few dollars from TV sponsors, although if NZR/Sky have good viewer stats, again, not a major right now.
@nzzp yeah I'm with you, I'm not bothered if I miss a super game anymore, although this weekends games do move up in importance.
Sky has changed the way we watch as well though, I mean it is at least a dozen years since I last got up in the middle of the night to watch a test, and worse, in recent years, I'll look at the result and then decide if I want to scan the game, watch extended highlights or skip it all together.
I don't think we are that much different to other parts of the world, just our low population brings everything into sharp relief.
We used to be different because rugby (aside from racing and beer) was the only gig in our little country so it got a much bigger % of attention than it was due.
Do those fans in europe watch all the games or just the ones that are relevant to their team? Those crowds as a proportion of population? The population density is another factor as there is a decent catchment close to the game (or regular transport). Then you have away fans. With bigger populations comes better transport networks and away fans are a real thing. -
@taniwharugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Steve yeah the lack of bums on seats is poor optics, and will probably sway a few dollars from TV sponsors, although if NZR/Sky have good viewer stats, again, not a major right now.
@nzzp yeah I'm with you, I'm not bothered if I miss a super game anymore, although this weekends games do move up in importance.
Sky has changed the way we watch as well though, I mean it is at least a dozen years since I last got up in the middle of the night to watch a test, and worse, in recent years, I'll look at the result and then decide if I want to scan the game, watch extended highlights or skip it all together.
I don't think we are that much different to other parts of the world, just our low population brings everything into sharp relief.
We used to be different because rugby (aside from racing and beer) was the only gig in our little country so it got a much bigger % of attention than it was due.
Do those fans in europe watch all the games or just the ones that are relevant to their team? Those crowds as a proportion of population? The population density is another factor as there is a decent catchment close to the game (or regular transport). Then you have away fans. With bigger populations comes better transport networks and away fans are a real thing.@Crucial said in The Current State of Rugby:
away fans are a real thing.
all that said, I'm a filthy hypocrite as I'm sliding down SH1 to FMG Stadium tomorrow with an old friend from overseas to watch the game. And as a long time Blues fan, I'll be supporting the Chefs against the anti-rugby Horse People.
I feel slightly ill, but that might only be the thought of someone potentially drinking Waikato Draught.
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have to say, we dont do ourselves any favours with stadiums that are too big for super/NPC level, lots of premiership stadiums are under 15k, but everyone here as stadiums for the one , at most, AB test they might get so theyre much bigger than they need to be most of the time.....which makes 8-10k people look like a few hundred
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Highlanders are a great example of the kiwi tyranny of distance and sparse population. Plenty here in Central Otago that would love to go to games but a round trip to Dunners is out of the question. The realistic crowd catchment for the Landers is very small and without the students with cheap/free passes to the zoo the stadium would be very light on numbers.
Yes, if the team performed better and the likelihood of a positive night out was in the offing, more would go but there's still a relative cap on spectators in a general sense.
The opportunity though is that rugby can still be the big offering in town. Other options are taking games to Invercargill and Queenstown. -
Highlanders are a great example of the kiwi tyranny of distance and sparse population. Plenty here in Central Otago that would love to go to games but a round trip to Dunners is out of the question. The realistic crowd catchment for the Landers is very small and without the students with cheap/free passes to the zoo the stadium would be very light on numbers.
Yes, if the team performed better and the likelihood of a positive night out was in the offing, more would go but there's still a relative cap on spectators in a general sense.
The opportunity though is that rugby can still be the big offering in town. Other options are taking games to Invercargill and Queenstown.@Crucial the fanbase of the North Queensland Cowboys calls bullshit
