Titanic tourist submarine
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Agree with the sentiment on media coverage - posed it with Mrs Meldrew yesterday - and your pal's comment is OK by me. But the way Toynbee's tweet turns two tragedies into a political statement says more about her than anything else.
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@antipodean Yeah, obviously pressure/depth changes things somewhat.
But given they can hear the sounds of banging (assuming they come from the sub), then that would suggest that Sonar is still capable.
It's probably fair enough to assume Physicists know better than me, though. Be nice to here a laymans explanation.
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@Victor-Meldrew The thing is that she's not even correct, is she? The sinking small boats were found pretty quickly.
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@MajorRage said in Titanic tourist submarine:
@antipodean Yeah, obviously pressure/depth changes things somewhat.
But given they can hear the sounds of banging (assuming they come from the sub), then that would suggest that Sonar is still capable.
It's probably fair enough to assume Physicists know better than me, though. Be nice to here a laymans explanation.
The propagation of the wave at that distance means the echo could be anything. It loses fidelity at that range.
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@NTA said in Titanic tourist submarine:
This is newsworthy for two reasons:
- everyone wishes they were a billionaire
- everyone believes they're not that stupid
- nobody wants to imagine being trapped inside a sub without Internet but with a teenager.
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4- everyone knows that it will make a great movie one day
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@ACT-Crusader said in Titanic tourist submarine:
4- everyone knows that it will make a great movie one day
"Snakes in a sub"
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@ACT-Crusader a deep sea brokeback mountain?
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While I feel for those who were on-board and their families. This was an unregulated operation undertaken at depths where if something goes wrong it is curtains. While we have seen footage of reporters signing waivers on previous expeditions, any trip on a vessel like that should fail the sniff risk test. While the Coastguard kept on calling it a SAR operation. I think they knew there was a fair chance the submersible could have imploded, but had to maintain the narrative around a SAR operation while there was no sightings and potential oxygen. Money doesn't buy common sense or safety.
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@MajorRage said in Titanic tourist submarine:
@antipodean Yeah, obviously pressure/depth changes things somewhat.
But given they can hear the sounds of banging (assuming they come from the sub), then that would suggest that Sonar is still capable.
It's probably fair enough to assume Physicists know better than me, though. Be nice to here a laymans explanation.
My complete laymans take was around the depth of the water, the contour of the floor around Titanic canyon, and all the other stuff nearby. But I have some conflicting thoughts...
One being that it took four expeditions back in the 1980's to find the ship itself, so it's a very tough environment. The other being that once they found the boiler and debris field back in 1985, from memory they fairly quickly confirmed Titanic's bow location with something as relatively old tech as Knorr's echo sounder...
That said, I am guessing they had a pretty good idea where Titan might be based on how quickly the ROV has gone straight to the spot. Thankfully (for a number of reasons...) it is separate to Titanic's debris fields, so maybe that made it easier to find?
So now we have Titan on the sea floor next to RMS Titanic.
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@MajorRage said in Titanic tourist submarine:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Titanic tourist submarine:
Liberal compassion once again.
Now, I'm pretty far from being a lefty (no way ....) but this was sent to me from a lefty pal and it really has made me think:
Five hundred people drowned trying to reach Europe last week and it was covered but my god contrasting it to the coverage of this Titanic submarine is just appalling to see, so much more focus, experts on, analysis and interest from the public. Certain lives are so cheap to us
I've read a few interesting takes along those lines. I figured one of several differences was the chance that they were still alive. I've wondered over the last couple of days whether a better comparison was that people hoping for a Tham Luang cave rescue type of story, which was also a massive focus.
Interest may well dissipate relatively quickly now outside of those affected, regulators and the wider Titanic community (P H Nargeolet was very well known).
Most sadly, I anticipate ongoing stories of migrant boat tragedies to come. Titan had a unique but grim novelty news factor.
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@nzzp said in Titanic tourist submarine:
@Bones said in F off with the damn PC Brigade:
@Victor-Meldrew it did occur to me that this is getting a helluva lot of coverage for 5 people no-one knew until now.
it presses all the media buttons
Titanic
A ticking clock
Deep sea expeditions
BillionairesI can't get excited, but it is right up main stream media channels. THe sub sounds like a non-certified death trap.
I think is more MSM see that the public like a ticking clock rescue. E.g Thai cave children, Kursk submarine, and Chilean miners. Except, from what I can tell, myself and most people don't give a shit about rich people f@cking about in places they shouldn't be for no good reason.
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Most likely a failure of the carbon fibre apparently. The vessel? had done 25 trips and each one would have left hairline cracks in the fibre. Coupled with the fact that it was a cigar shape rather than a sphere and literally a ticking clock.
Pressure at that depth was described as @like having the Eiffel Tower sitting on top of you@.
At least they would have known nothing
A lot like the 'inventor' and CEO then.
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There's a couple of comments on the first page about a lack of a recovery plan from OceanGate (which is surprising, and kind of isn't - given the state of the sub...)
I'm not sure why they didn't have many backup options, but I have read that one of the ways they allegedly avoided the need for full certification of the submarine was by making the paying customers into crew - "Mission Specialists" - to avoid the need for passenger certification.
The loss of the Bounty (1960) during Hurricane Sandy in 2012 was made reference to for a similar approach to becoming crew rather than passengers. Edit: found the comment:
The Sailing Vessel Bounty that was lost during Hurricane Sandy 100 miles off Cape Hatteras was not legally a ship for purposes of conveying passengers, but rather only licensed as a tourist attraction which could execute non-revenue moves from port to port. The owners then essentially sold experiential "be a member of the crew" opportunities to people who wanted to live a historic sailing lifestyle. Though the physical circumstances are quite different, the legal loophole is more or less the same. Perhaps it will finally be closed.
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