Titanic tourist submarine
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@MajorRage said in Titanic tourist submarine:
@antipodean Yeah, obviously pressure/depth changes things somewhat.
But given they can hear the sounds of banging (assuming they come from the sub), then that would suggest that Sonar is still capable.
It's probably fair enough to assume Physicists know better than me, though. Be nice to here a laymans explanation.
My complete laymans take was around the depth of the water, the contour of the floor around Titanic canyon, and all the other stuff nearby. But I have some conflicting thoughts...
One being that it took four expeditions back in the 1980's to find the ship itself, so it's a very tough environment. The other being that once they found the boiler and debris field back in 1985, from memory they fairly quickly confirmed Titanic's bow location with something as relatively old tech as Knorr's echo sounder...
That said, I am guessing they had a pretty good idea where Titan might be based on how quickly the ROV has gone straight to the spot. Thankfully (for a number of reasons...) it is separate to Titanic's debris fields, so maybe that made it easier to find?
So now we have Titan on the sea floor next to RMS Titanic.
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@MajorRage said in Titanic tourist submarine:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Titanic tourist submarine:
Liberal compassion once again.
Now, I'm pretty far from being a lefty (no way ....) but this was sent to me from a lefty pal and it really has made me think:
Five hundred people drowned trying to reach Europe last week and it was covered but my god contrasting it to the coverage of this Titanic submarine is just appalling to see, so much more focus, experts on, analysis and interest from the public. Certain lives are so cheap to us
I've read a few interesting takes along those lines. I figured one of several differences was the chance that they were still alive. I've wondered over the last couple of days whether a better comparison was that people hoping for a Tham Luang cave rescue type of story, which was also a massive focus.
Interest may well dissipate relatively quickly now outside of those affected, regulators and the wider Titanic community (P H Nargeolet was very well known).
Most sadly, I anticipate ongoing stories of migrant boat tragedies to come. Titan had a unique but grim novelty news factor.
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@nzzp said in Titanic tourist submarine:
@Bones said in F off with the damn PC Brigade:
@Victor-Meldrew it did occur to me that this is getting a helluva lot of coverage for 5 people no-one knew until now.
it presses all the media buttons
Titanic
A ticking clock
Deep sea expeditions
BillionairesI can't get excited, but it is right up main stream media channels. THe sub sounds like a non-certified death trap.
I think is more MSM see that the public like a ticking clock rescue. E.g Thai cave children, Kursk submarine, and Chilean miners. Except, from what I can tell, myself and most people don't give a shit about rich people f@cking about in places they shouldn't be for no good reason.
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Most likely a failure of the carbon fibre apparently. The vessel? had done 25 trips and each one would have left hairline cracks in the fibre. Coupled with the fact that it was a cigar shape rather than a sphere and literally a ticking clock.
Pressure at that depth was described as @like having the Eiffel Tower sitting on top of you@.
At least they would have known nothing
A lot like the 'inventor' and CEO then.
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There's a couple of comments on the first page about a lack of a recovery plan from OceanGate (which is surprising, and kind of isn't - given the state of the sub...)
I'm not sure why they didn't have many backup options, but I have read that one of the ways they allegedly avoided the need for full certification of the submarine was by making the paying customers into crew - "Mission Specialists" - to avoid the need for passenger certification.
The loss of the Bounty (1960) during Hurricane Sandy in 2012 was made reference to for a similar approach to becoming crew rather than passengers. Edit: found the comment:
The Sailing Vessel Bounty that was lost during Hurricane Sandy 100 miles off Cape Hatteras was not legally a ship for purposes of conveying passengers, but rather only licensed as a tourist attraction which could execute non-revenue moves from port to port. The owners then essentially sold experiential "be a member of the crew" opportunities to people who wanted to live a historic sailing lifestyle. Though the physical circumstances are quite different, the legal loophole is more or less the same. Perhaps it will finally be closed.
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@MajorRage said in Titanic tourist submarine:
@antipodean Yeah, obviously pressure/depth changes things somewhat.
But given they can hear the sounds of banging (assuming they come from the sub), then that would suggest that Sonar is still capable.
It's probably fair enough to assume Physicists know better than me, though. Be nice to here a laymans explanation.
No, it is nowhere near as simple. Esp 4k down. I have done my time in ASW helicopters and sound tracking is bloody complex. You can scan to that depth, with specialised gear. It does a very narrow so and the resolution is not great. If it was easy every single wreck full of gold in the world would've been found by now
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@canefan said in Titanic tourist submarine:
@nzzp said in F off with the damn PC Brigade:
@Bones said in F off with the damn PC Brigade:
@Victor-Meldrew it did occur to me that this is getting a helluva lot of coverage for 5 people no-one knew until now.
it presses all the media buttons
Titanic
A ticking clock
Deep sea expeditions
BillionairesI can't get excited, but it is right up main stream media channels. THe sub sounds like a non-certified death trap.
It had lights bought from a camping store, and the steering was a gaming controller! That's intrepid
Game controllers are used in a lot of real world places. Military use heaps, why reinvent the wheel, cheap, reliable and easy to have spares
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@Machpants said in Titanic tourist submarine:
@canefan said in Titanic tourist submarine:
@nzzp said in F off with the damn PC Brigade:
@Bones said in F off with the damn PC Brigade:
@Victor-Meldrew it did occur to me that this is getting a helluva lot of coverage for 5 people no-one knew until now.
it presses all the media buttons
Titanic
A ticking clock
Deep sea expeditions
BillionairesI can't get excited, but it is right up main stream media channels. THe sub sounds like a non-certified death trap.
It had lights bought from a camping store, and the steering was a gaming controller! That's intrepid
Game controllers are used in a lot of real world places. Military use heaps, why reinvent the wheel, cheap, reliable and easy to have spares
Yes the game controller thing is a bit silly considering they're apparently also used on nuclear subs. I'd say that was the very least of this vessel's problems.
You couldn't pay me enough to get in that thing. The idea that people paid stupid money to get in it blows my mind. But I guess when you can buy anything, you think differently. Still...look at that thing!
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@Donsteppa said in Titanic tourist submarine:
I think the "US$30 game controller" aspect just looks symbolic of their approach to many aspects of sub design, build, materials, & operations.
Team NZ used one as well I think, for sail trimming. They are pretty awesome pieces of kit for the price - just the optics are poor
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The word "missing" always felt exceptionally hopeful.
'Entire week has been prolonged and nightmarish charade' - Director James Cameron
Director James Cameron, who has completed 33 dives to the Titanic, has told BBC News that he predicted this deadly outcome days earlier.
The director of the blockbuster film Titanic said he was on a ship on Sunday when the sub first went missing, and he did not hear about its disappearance until Monday.
When he learned that the sub had lost both its navigation and communication at the same time, he said he immediately suspected a disaster had taken place.
"I felt in my bones what had happened. For the sub’s electronics to fail and its communication system to fail, and its tracking transponder to fail simultaneously - sub's gone."
Cameron told BBC News the past week has "felt like a prolonged and nightmarish charade where people are running around talking about banging noises and talking about oxygen and all this other stuff".
"I knew that sub was sitting exactly underneath its last known depth and position. That's exactly where they found it," he continued.
He added that once a remotely controlled underwater vehicle was deployed on Thursday, searchers "found it within hours, probably within minutes".
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A good listen. And Bob Ballard makes the point, gently, that this is the first of any of these types of subs to be lost since deep sea ops began in the the 1960's. Looks like he's still a very busy man for an 80 year old.
Part two: adding Cameon's follow on interview as the other one to have 'been there, done that', and gets into the technicalities and safety concerns.
