Final: Chiefs v Crusaders
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Man the takes in here are amusing...
As a neutral I enjoyed the game, thought the ref missed bits (both ways) and in a game as tight as this, easy to say they influenced the outcome, but at the end of the day, the Crusaders barred up when it counted most, a number of Chiefs went missing at crucial times.
The men you wanted to step up for the Crusaders did, the ones that needed to step up for the chiefs, didn't.
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Pressure from the Crusaders was immense with magic lineout mojo, overall a titanic struggle and I just hope we get that intensity and tackling quality into the ABs. Gotta agree with Bones though, in the first half it looked to me that the Chiefs only had one lock on the field. The Chiefs backs were great.
Goodhue was committed but not the same as old, and as for Ennor, he only/always seems to play like that when I am watching. It must be my fault.
I thought Weber was the best 9 on the field, and DMac's workrate shaded RM's for me. -
@Bovidae said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
PGS especially
He didn't do much in this game. Should have started Finau, and used PGS as an impact ball carrier.
@Bovidae said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
The long forward pass was right in front of me. Gardner seemed asleep. The TMO needs to do their job and not just pick and choose when to intervene.
TMO can't come in for those calls any more. (I think.)
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They're up there for sure. Liverpool and the Pittsburgh Steelers in the 70s/80s, Rabbitohs in the 50s/60s, Man U in the 90s, Celtic in the 2010s, Canterbury in the 2010s all pretty impressive records. Probably a bunch more football teams in other leagues.
@Cyclops said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
They're up there for sure. Liverpool and the Pittsburgh Steelers in the 70s/80s, Rabbitohs in the 50s/60s, Man U in the 90s, Celtic in the 2010s, Canterbury in the 2010s all pretty impressive records. Probably a bunch more football teams in other leagues.
@Damo
Auckland NPC through early Blues in the 80s and 90s. -
@ploughboy said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
and the missed forward pass changed the game
The long forward pass was right in front of me. Gardner seemed asleep. The TMO needs to do their job and not just pick and choose when to intervene.
Gutted for Weber, Nankivell and PGS especially.
@Bovidae said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@ploughboy said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
and the missed forward pass changed the game
The long forward pass was right in front of me. Gardner seemed asleep. The TMO needs to do their job and not just pick and choose when to intervene.
Gutted for Weber, Nankivell and PGS especially.
All Gardner had to do was send a message to BOK, and he could have called play back.
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@TJ said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
Pretty pathetic end to an awesome game with the crowd booing the refs. To watch that game and come away whinging about the ref is everything wrong with rugby these days.
The unassailable fact is that, between the ref, touchies and TMO, Crusaders were improperly credited with seven points.
Whereas the Chiefs were denied a try by the same group on quite technical grounds.
On any objective analysis, either both or neither ought to have stood. So either Chiefs 20 -- Crusaders 18 or 27 -- 25.
That is what is wrong with rugby nowadays: glaring mistakes using technology yielding an incorrect result.
Or put another way, while the Chiefs were the better team, they weren't sufficiently better to overcome officiating mistakes and three yellow cards.
@pakman said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
Whereas the Chiefs were denied a try by the same group on quite technical grounds.
Chiefs supporter here.
You talking Narawa off DMac?
He was about 4m offside. Hard to whinge about.
Bit like checking if the chaser is in front of the kicker.
That's technical too.
Laws aren't guidelines or gut feel.
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@TJ said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@pakman not sure which 7 points the Crusaders were credited with, but if you're complaining about the Dmac penalty at the lineout, he was a long way offside, not even close.
Also, you know you're watching rugby right? If you watch every ruck really closely you could debate that a penalty could've been awarded to either side. Given there was nothing outrageous missed I'd say it was a good reffing performance.
So from my perspective it's pretty sad to be focusing on the ref and completely missing the satisfaction of a great match,as I say that is the shame of modern rugby, boiling down to 2 sides complaining about the ref.
The glaring forward pass at 36, ought to have been picked up by touchies or TMO (it was obvious on screen). So no Crusaders put in to lineout, nor Mo'unga try. It's absolutely clearcut.
THAT is why the inferior team won. I shouldn't have minded all that much, but this was the final, and the result of the entire tournament is flawed as a result.
The Chiefs did bloody well to make it so close, but if anything, if the scrum had correctly been given, I suspect the Chiefs would have run away with it in second.
The best thing about the game itself was the extreme skill of the Chiefs backs, which chopped up the Crusaders defense a number of time.
Sorry, but I can't take pleasure out of a falsely close encounter. Give me the Brumbies semi any time!
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NZ has some great young props. Williams was great tonight.
@Billy-Tell said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
NZ has some great young props. Williams was great tonight.
Yeah. Was dubious about him. Was wondering if he was going to be one of those guys who has always been the biggest so never learned to try hard.
But it looks like he's got the workrate and wants to use his power.
Becoming a fan.
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@TJ said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@pakman ah, the forward pass that lead to a Crusaders lineout near halfway was the crucial game changing decision that warrants all the complaining?
Should've been picked up for sure, but there were a lot of other things that the Chiefs had to get wrong to turn that into a try.
You've got your mind set on being a victim tonight so I'll leave you to that.
No. The point is that if we are going to embrace technology we need to do it properly, in particular in finals.
Either both second Narawa and Mo'unga tries get scrubbed because the officials are competent, or both let stand incorrectly.
That was a 14 point swing, which in a nutshell was the ballgame.
If you can't grasp that, I'm afraid I'll have to leave you to your ignorant bliss.
@pakman said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@TJ said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@pakman ah, the forward pass that lead to a Crusaders lineout near halfway was the crucial game changing decision that warrants all the complaining?
Should've been picked up for sure, but there were a lot of other things that the Chiefs had to get wrong to turn that into a try.
You've got your mind set on being a victim tonight so I'll leave you to that.
No. The point is that if we are going to embrace technology we need to do it properly, in particular in finals.
Either both second Narawa and Mo'unga tries get scrubbed because the officials are competent, or both let stand incorrectly.
That was a 14 point swing, which in a nutshell was the ballgame.
If you can't grasp that, I'm afraid I'll have to leave you to your ignorant bliss.
How far do you want to take it though. The forward pass was several plays before Mo'unga scored. They didn't score directly from it.
The point is, the Chiefs didn't defend well enough from that situation. The missed forward pass is no different to the not-straight lineout through from the Chiefs with 3 minutes to go. Scott Barrett knocked it on and the Chiefs got the ball back. The difference is the Chiefs shat the bed and went back 40 metres whereas the Crusaders took their chance and scored. It's not all about the referees, there are players out there. The Chiefs just weren't good enough.
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@Billy-Tell said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
NZ has some great young props. Williams was great tonight.
Yeah. Was dubious about him. Was wondering if he was going to be one of those guys who has always been the biggest so never learned to try hard.
But it looks like he's got the workrate and wants to use his power.
Becoming a fan.
@booboo said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
Becoming a fan.
The thought of The Mighty Williams, Sami T and another earnest big bopper in the front row is damn exciting!
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How fucking stubborn were the Crusaders? It remined me of the old days when the ABs could get a win even when the other team were looking the 'better' team. Jeez I hope Robertson can get the ABs playing like that.
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@Canerbry said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
Whitelock > Retallick
Surely the far bigger discrepancy was
Scott Barrett > Vaai
Scooter was everywhere whereas Vaai was nowhere.
@KiwiMurph yes, but that was easily expected
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You know on reflection of the game, and last few games of season, I would argue that Scott Barrett is close to best rugby player in the country this year. He has been immense!
Will ad in Narawa we got a pretty good right wing too in ABs too! -
@Canerbry said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@KiwiMurph said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
#647
Fans, coaches and players all complain about the ref.Welcome to pro sport. It happens in every sport
Yes it does.
But, the Chiefs didn't lose tonight because of the refs. They lost to the better team.
It's pretty poor-loserish to claim otherwise, which is what we're seeing here on the fern, plus the booing of the other team and the officials at the presentation, the carrying on by the coach at half time, there will be more it's only the first day.
Based on the evidence the Chiefs have the most feral fans in World Rugby.
I know it's hard to see past a win, but if the Mo'unga try hadn't been incorrectly awarded the Saders would have been run over in second.
Perhaps to help you see the point, had Mo'unga's try been scrubbed and Narawa awarded a second the score would have been 27 - 18 at least, but probably a larger margin. Would you have not been complaining, or just put it down to the Chiefs being the 'better' team?
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That game was the best advertisement yet why Cane should not be the AB captain. Should be Whitelock this year and Barrett going forward.
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You know on reflection of the game, and last few games of season, I would argue that Scott Barrett is close to best rugby player in the country this year. He has been immense!
Will ad in Narawa we got a pretty good right wing too in ABs too!@Dan54 The sentimental call to give Sam Whitelock MotM, but I would have given it to Scott. When the Chiefs got on top early in the second half, SB was instrumental in turning the momentum.
Discipline obviously a key point of difference in that game, but the Crusaders also seemed to have a plan to starve the Chiefs of set piece possession by not kicking the ball out. The odd time they had to they competed like madmen in the lineout. Resulted in an edge in territory and possession.
Anyone got a link to some detailed match stats - seems like ESPN only had the work experience kid on the job?
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@Stag Where was Whitelock's captaincy when the ABs capitulated against England last year, or lost to Ireland and France a year earlier?
If Robertson wants Papalii as the AB captain we've got problems too.
@Bovidae will be very interesting to see what he does with the captaincy.
DP is a leader, but more just a follow me type, not sure he's got it if needed to dig in and change things, unlikely Cane be it, we know whitelock won't be...how much longer will Barrett stick around, will that be a carrot?
Otherwise who then?
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NZ has some great young props. Williams was great tonight.
@Billy-Tell said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
NZ has some great young props. Williams was great tonight.
Interesting player , on the back of a few seasons where we have been accused of being outmuscled by opposition packs, he looks a bit of what we require
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@Dan54 The sentimental call to give Sam Whitelock MotM, but I would have given it to Scott. When the Chiefs got on top early in the second half, SB was instrumental in turning the momentum.
Discipline obviously a key point of difference in that game, but the Crusaders also seemed to have a plan to starve the Chiefs of set piece possession by not kicking the ball out. The odd time they had to they competed like madmen in the lineout. Resulted in an edge in territory and possession.
Anyone got a link to some detailed match stats - seems like ESPN only had the work experience kid on the job?
@Chris-B said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
Anyone got a link to some detailed match stats
https://super.rugby/superrugby/match-centre/?competition=205&season=2023&match=937148
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@Chris-B said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
Anyone got a link to some detailed match stats
https://super.rugby/superrugby/match-centre/?competition=205&season=2023&match=937148
@Stargazer Thanks!
