Final: Chiefs v Crusaders
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NZ has some great young props. Williams was great tonight.
@Billy-Tell said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
NZ has some great young props. Williams was great tonight.
Yeah. Was dubious about him. Was wondering if he was going to be one of those guys who has always been the biggest so never learned to try hard.
But it looks like he's got the workrate and wants to use his power.
Becoming a fan.
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@TJ said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@pakman ah, the forward pass that lead to a Crusaders lineout near halfway was the crucial game changing decision that warrants all the complaining?
Should've been picked up for sure, but there were a lot of other things that the Chiefs had to get wrong to turn that into a try.
You've got your mind set on being a victim tonight so I'll leave you to that.
No. The point is that if we are going to embrace technology we need to do it properly, in particular in finals.
Either both second Narawa and Mo'unga tries get scrubbed because the officials are competent, or both let stand incorrectly.
That was a 14 point swing, which in a nutshell was the ballgame.
If you can't grasp that, I'm afraid I'll have to leave you to your ignorant bliss.
@pakman said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@TJ said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@pakman ah, the forward pass that lead to a Crusaders lineout near halfway was the crucial game changing decision that warrants all the complaining?
Should've been picked up for sure, but there were a lot of other things that the Chiefs had to get wrong to turn that into a try.
You've got your mind set on being a victim tonight so I'll leave you to that.
No. The point is that if we are going to embrace technology we need to do it properly, in particular in finals.
Either both second Narawa and Mo'unga tries get scrubbed because the officials are competent, or both let stand incorrectly.
That was a 14 point swing, which in a nutshell was the ballgame.
If you can't grasp that, I'm afraid I'll have to leave you to your ignorant bliss.
How far do you want to take it though. The forward pass was several plays before Mo'unga scored. They didn't score directly from it.
The point is, the Chiefs didn't defend well enough from that situation. The missed forward pass is no different to the not-straight lineout through from the Chiefs with 3 minutes to go. Scott Barrett knocked it on and the Chiefs got the ball back. The difference is the Chiefs shat the bed and went back 40 metres whereas the Crusaders took their chance and scored. It's not all about the referees, there are players out there. The Chiefs just weren't good enough.
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@Billy-Tell said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
NZ has some great young props. Williams was great tonight.
Yeah. Was dubious about him. Was wondering if he was going to be one of those guys who has always been the biggest so never learned to try hard.
But it looks like he's got the workrate and wants to use his power.
Becoming a fan.
@booboo said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
Becoming a fan.
The thought of The Mighty Williams, Sami T and another earnest big bopper in the front row is damn exciting!
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How fucking stubborn were the Crusaders? It remined me of the old days when the ABs could get a win even when the other team were looking the 'better' team. Jeez I hope Robertson can get the ABs playing like that.
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@Canerbry said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
Whitelock > Retallick
Surely the far bigger discrepancy was
Scott Barrett > Vaai
Scooter was everywhere whereas Vaai was nowhere.
@KiwiMurph yes, but that was easily expected
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You know on reflection of the game, and last few games of season, I would argue that Scott Barrett is close to best rugby player in the country this year. He has been immense!
Will ad in Narawa we got a pretty good right wing too in ABs too! -
@Canerbry said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@KiwiMurph said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
#647
Fans, coaches and players all complain about the ref.Welcome to pro sport. It happens in every sport
Yes it does.
But, the Chiefs didn't lose tonight because of the refs. They lost to the better team.
It's pretty poor-loserish to claim otherwise, which is what we're seeing here on the fern, plus the booing of the other team and the officials at the presentation, the carrying on by the coach at half time, there will be more it's only the first day.
Based on the evidence the Chiefs have the most feral fans in World Rugby.
I know it's hard to see past a win, but if the Mo'unga try hadn't been incorrectly awarded the Saders would have been run over in second.
Perhaps to help you see the point, had Mo'unga's try been scrubbed and Narawa awarded a second the score would have been 27 - 18 at least, but probably a larger margin. Would you have not been complaining, or just put it down to the Chiefs being the 'better' team?
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That game was the best advertisement yet why Cane should not be the AB captain. Should be Whitelock this year and Barrett going forward.
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You know on reflection of the game, and last few games of season, I would argue that Scott Barrett is close to best rugby player in the country this year. He has been immense!
Will ad in Narawa we got a pretty good right wing too in ABs too!@Dan54 The sentimental call to give Sam Whitelock MotM, but I would have given it to Scott. When the Chiefs got on top early in the second half, SB was instrumental in turning the momentum.
Discipline obviously a key point of difference in that game, but the Crusaders also seemed to have a plan to starve the Chiefs of set piece possession by not kicking the ball out. The odd time they had to they competed like madmen in the lineout. Resulted in an edge in territory and possession.
Anyone got a link to some detailed match stats - seems like ESPN only had the work experience kid on the job?
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@Stag Where was Whitelock's captaincy when the ABs capitulated against England last year, or lost to Ireland and France a year earlier?
If Robertson wants Papalii as the AB captain we've got problems too.
@Bovidae will be very interesting to see what he does with the captaincy.
DP is a leader, but more just a follow me type, not sure he's got it if needed to dig in and change things, unlikely Cane be it, we know whitelock won't be...how much longer will Barrett stick around, will that be a carrot?
Otherwise who then?
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NZ has some great young props. Williams was great tonight.
@Billy-Tell said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
NZ has some great young props. Williams was great tonight.
Interesting player , on the back of a few seasons where we have been accused of being outmuscled by opposition packs, he looks a bit of what we require
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@Dan54 The sentimental call to give Sam Whitelock MotM, but I would have given it to Scott. When the Chiefs got on top early in the second half, SB was instrumental in turning the momentum.
Discipline obviously a key point of difference in that game, but the Crusaders also seemed to have a plan to starve the Chiefs of set piece possession by not kicking the ball out. The odd time they had to they competed like madmen in the lineout. Resulted in an edge in territory and possession.
Anyone got a link to some detailed match stats - seems like ESPN only had the work experience kid on the job?
@Chris-B said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
Anyone got a link to some detailed match stats
https://super.rugby/superrugby/match-centre/?competition=205&season=2023&match=937148
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@Chris-B said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
Anyone got a link to some detailed match stats
https://super.rugby/superrugby/match-centre/?competition=205&season=2023&match=937148
@Stargazer Thanks!
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@Bovidae will be very interesting to see what he does with the captaincy.
DP is a leader, but more just a follow me type, not sure he's got it if needed to dig in and change things, unlikely Cane be it, we know whitelock won't be...how much longer will Barrett stick around, will that be a carrot?
Otherwise who then?
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@Dan54 The sentimental call to give Sam Whitelock MotM, but I would have given it to Scott. When the Chiefs got on top early in the second half, SB was instrumental in turning the momentum.
Discipline obviously a key point of difference in that game, but the Crusaders also seemed to have a plan to starve the Chiefs of set piece possession by not kicking the ball out. The odd time they had to they competed like madmen in the lineout. Resulted in an edge in territory and possession.
Anyone got a link to some detailed match stats - seems like ESPN only had the work experience kid on the job?
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@Stag Where was Whitelock's captaincy when the ABs capitulated against England last year, or lost to Ireland and France a year earlier?
If Robertson wants Papalii as the AB captain we've got problems too.
@Bovidae said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@Stag Where was Whitelock's captaincy when the ABs capitulated against England last year, or lost to Ireland and France a year earlier?
If Robertson wants Papalii as the AB captain we've got problems too.
Not sure we lost either of those games through leadership. The team capitulated, I think you can look at the skipper in some ways, but in other ways it speaks of the quality across the board. Sam Cane last night got angry, pissed the referee off, which was poor leadership in the first place, then compounded it by giving away a stupid yellow card. It perfectly showed why he shouldn't be the All Black captain, not just because of poor leadership on the field, but also the fact he shouldn't even be on the field. Even if you want to stick with Ardie at 8, Papalii should be ahead in the queue, and arguably Harmon.
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@Bovidae said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@Stag Where was Whitelock's captaincy when the ABs capitulated against England last year, or lost to Ireland and France a year earlier?
If Robertson wants Papalii as the AB captain we've got problems too.
Not sure we lost either of those games through leadership. The team capitulated, I think you can look at the skipper in some ways, but in other ways it speaks of the quality across the board. Sam Cane last night got angry, pissed the referee off, which was poor leadership in the first place, then compounded it by giving away a stupid yellow card. It perfectly showed why he shouldn't be the All Black captain, not just because of poor leadership on the field, but also the fact he shouldn't even be on the field. Even if you want to stick with Ardie at 8, Papalii should be ahead in the queue, and arguably Harmon.
@frugby said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
Papalii should be ahead in the queue
Did you not watch the Crusaders v Blues SF? No leadership in that Blues squad from their captain and he didn't have a game to be proud of. No idea why you'd think Papali'i should be ahead in the queue.
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@frugby said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
Papalii should be ahead in the queue
Did you not watch the Crusaders v Blues SF? No leadership in that Blues squad from their captain and he didn't have a game to be proud of. No idea why you'd think Papali'i should be ahead in the queue.
@Stargazer I thought Papalii actually had quite a strong game, but as we established, the Blues were murdered in the right five so pretty hard for the loose forwards and backs. As for leadership, I don't really see him as a captain, and I think it is bizarre they didn't go back to Tuipulotu (who as it happens was injured).
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@taniwharugby S Barrett will take the captaincy I'd imagine... Ardie is of course the other option, because he only misses Super Rugby.
Other options: Papalii, Cane & Lienert-Brown
@frugby ah, knew i was.forgetting someone, Ardie or SB, not sure ALB is an option.
