Final: Chiefs v Crusaders
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Sam Cane being a has been shithouse player, who would not be in any other tier one XV, was one of the main reasons that the Chiefs lost.
ABs go out in the QF, and the main reason is loser Cane is preferred over a vastly better player at international level for the last two years - Papalii.
What tier one team would Cane start for? None. He is shit.
@Tim said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
Sam Cane being a has been shithouse player, who would not be in any other tier one XV, was one of the main reasons that the Chiefs lost.
ABs go out in the QF, and the main reason is loser Cane is preferred over a vastly better player at international level for the last two years - Papalii.
What tier one team would Cane start for? None. He is shit.
Your opinion I know (and no problem with it), but if I was selecting Cane would be starting everyday of the week for ABs. But then again I think Papalii is pretty good, just what I prefer at test level is someone who tackles all day, gets off ground as quick as and stays involved in game etc.
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@taniwharugby said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@pakman I don't think you can compare what a ref does into the business world.
Where you have 30 grown men you are trying to keep in line, while they are all trying to push the limits, not to mention you have 3 others trying to help you too, and you are saying he should be sacked because of an error that he and 3 other officials missed?
Should ALB be similarly sacked for his error? That was quite important and could well have swung the pendulum to the Crusaders victory.
Usually only lose your job on the spot through gross negligence, which mean you think they weren't errors, they were deliberate actions, as in he cheated?
I'm not actually gunning for BOK.
But sport is now business. We have two touchies aided by technology to try and improve the game.
Pre technology the second Narawa try stands and Chiefs win going away. Maybe ALB doesn't see yellow even.
If we embrace technology in the professional era we need to ensure the results of games aren't reversed through ropey application.We know from the technology that the Mo'unga try was bogus. One can try and cite various protocols to explain things away, but the plain fact remains that between two touchies and the TMO watching real time, even though BOK missed it, the system ought to have tipped him off and the scrum Chiefs been awarded.
As a business, NZRU need to look into why the error occurred and what can be changed going forward to ensure such errors don't recur.
@pakman the more you post the sweeter the victory is.
Forget the NZRU looking into anything, the Chiefs need to have a full on review on whoever made the decision to go for that penalty kick from beyond half way. On a night when the conditions were not going to give the kicker any love it seemed a very poor and low percentage decision.
Was it because they didn’t trust their set piece? (Lineout risk)
Was it because DMac thought I did it last week why not tonight? (Different conditions)That penalty gave Chiefs some needed momentum, but the decision to kick for goal IMO took that momentum away.
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Why is everyone acting like the on field officials had no idea about Dmac being offside? The ref and touchie seemed to immediately be talking about it and specifically called it out when referring in to the tmo. If there was no tmo then I think that try still gets called back based on what the touch judge saw. As others have pointed out, the markings on the field made it really blatant that he wasn't back 10.
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@Steven-Harris said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
Thought Chiefs supporters were better than that.
Big call there.
@Canerbry said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@Steven-Harris said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
Thought Chiefs supporters were better than that.
Big call there.
Can't up-vote that but it is a pretty funny delivery:beaming_face_with_smiling_eyes:
The reaction to this game is bizarre. McMillian's comments after the game were also fairly borderline. Asked about the refs, he said look at the crowd's reaction (booing at ceremony), that shows you something or words to that effect. Pretty poor all round really. -
Why is everyone acting like the on field officials had no idea about Dmac being offside? The ref and touchie seemed to immediately be talking about it and specifically called it out when referring in to the tmo. If there was no tmo then I think that try still gets called back based on what the touch judge saw. As others have pointed out, the markings on the field made it really blatant that he wasn't back 10.
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I really want the Chiefs to win because if they don’t the whinging about the ref and blaming others will be unbearable….
@ACT-Crusader said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
I really want the Chiefs to win because if they don’t the whinging about the ref and blaming others will be unbearable….
I think you won the thread.
If only the mighty Chiefs had been able to cope with a scrum to them on the halfway being converted to a lineout to us on the halfway, the way we coped with ALB taking out our All Black wing and not being red carded...
We would have been thrashed, I tell you - thrashed!!!
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I think the ref abuse is crap, but anyone thinking it only Chiefs fans that are idiots have short memories. Ask Wayne Barnes! Asl Rayanal etc etc, see we live in this virtual world where it is considered ok to abuse officials, administrators and players. Too f***en many from wherever in world are gutless wonders who hide behind keyboards or in crowds. Christ I sat at tests for a couple of years when Quade Cooper was the subject of booing etc, I never had a problem telling the ones around me that did it I thought it was crap etc, got the odd comment bac but normally just nothing!
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I think the ref abuse is crap, but anyone thinking it only Chiefs fans that are idiots have short memories. Ask Wayne Barnes! Asl Rayanal etc etc, see we live in this virtual world where it is considered ok to abuse officials, administrators and players. Too f***en many from wherever in world are gutless wonders who hide behind keyboards or in crowds. Christ I sat at tests for a couple of years when Quade Cooper was the subject of booing etc, I never had a problem telling the ones around me that did it I thought it was crap etc, got the odd comment bac but normally just nothing!
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It's a most interesting phenomenon on rugby threads should there be a tight game with debatable refereeing decisions.
The team on the winning side immediately leap to the refs defense, the system, the application, the standard are all perfect and the people saying otherwise are just sore losers.
And on the other side of course the entire system is broken in terms of blatant favoritism and needs urgent review.
The ironical part is that when the situation is reversed those who not long ago leapt to the defense of the referees and all systems involved upon their team losing descend upon them with the exact same ire the "sore losers" displayed previously. And all the "sore losers" then leap to the defense of the referee and all system involved as once again being perfect.
We all know the truth lies somewhere in the middle and neither side really does themselves any favors. With such attitudes all debate is rendered useless as the "side your on" depends entirety on the outcome of the game and nothing to do at all with the actual quality of the refs/refereeing systems performance.
It's ridiculous to expect that the ref does not have an influence on the game.
It's equally ridiculous to expect that we will ever make a perfect system - unless we do away with refs entirely and use robots to do it.
The "rub of the green" is one of those intangibles in sport that we know has an effect on the game but you can't control it on the day. One day you will get the 50/50 calls, the other you wont. You hope over time it simply balances out. It's all part of sport which makes it unpredictable and interesting and results in upsets we might not otherwise predict.
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@Stag said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@pakman you my friend are the definition of a sore loser. The best team won.
I'm a neutral. Just a fan who doesn't take to tournament finals being decided by gross refereeing errors. Deep down I'd say the Jesters know the truth.
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<img src="https://scontent.fchc1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/356392572_717028270433410_2224766598066939555_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_s600x600&_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=cJmy4MRH5RcAX-0kV-9&_nc_ht=scontent.fchc1-1.fna&oh=00_AfDWZCbQ4B0UITpnMkXsax5SaACoB4zy-pPioA-8GgxcqQ&oe=649F0C98" alt="May be an image of 2 people and text that says 'adidas SURPU 241hJ0N EFSCRUSADERS REFEREE wZealand Specsavers "The Chiefs Rugby Club condemn the abuse of Ben O'Keeffe. We have a deep care for people and have reached out to Ben to offer our support," Bill Osborne, Chiefs Rug by Club Chairman.'"/>
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O’Keeffe said he’d received a call from McMillan after the match. ”Clayton McMillan was excellent, he called me to see how I was, that was the first thing he wanted to worry about, nothing about the game, and I truly respect the man for doing that,” he told SENZ, adding younger referees around New Zealand had thanked him for speaking up. -
I didn't realise Cane never fronted the press conference afterwards. Appears pretty gutless unless he had genuine reason to skip it.
@Toddy said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
I didn't realise Cane never fronted the press conference afterwards. Appears pretty gutless unless he had genuine reason to skip it.
ffs.. way to get sucked into clickbait.. especially some from Reason.
chiefs have co-captains - cane did the post match on field, webby did the after match.
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@Toddy said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
I didn't realise Cane never fronted the press conference afterwards. Appears pretty gutless unless he had genuine reason to skip it.
ffs.. way to get sucked into clickbait.. especially some from Reason.
chiefs have co-captains - cane did the post match on field, webby did the after match.
@WillieTheWaiter I never saw the press conference and there are a couple of reports noting that the Chiefs players were too distraught to attend so McMillian went on his own.
If Weber went then good on him for fronting and it gives Cane a genuine reason not to be there.
Chiefs coach Clayton McMillan entered the post-match press conference, no captain by his side, noting his players were that upset that he had opted to come alone.
Appears that if Weber went then Stuff may have forgotten he was co-captain (not surprising).
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Clayton McMillan - good on him
I hope the criticism of Sam Cane isn't personal or hyperbole.
I don't prefer him as AB captain and not convinced he was top 7 in NZ last year but he is a great player for the Chiefs and given his all for the ABs.
I'd be interested in any stats on the 7s speed to rucks etc this year in the Super. I suspect Cane is a little quicker than he was last year. -
It's a most interesting phenomenon on rugby threads should there be a tight game with debatable refereeing decisions.
The team on the winning side immediately leap to the refs defense, the system, the application, the standard are all perfect and the people saying otherwise are just sore losers.
And on the other side of course the entire system is broken in terms of blatant favoritism and needs urgent review.
The ironical part is that when the situation is reversed those who not long ago leapt to the defense of the referees and all systems involved upon their team losing descend upon them with the exact same ire the "sore losers" displayed previously. And all the "sore losers" then leap to the defense of the referee and all system involved as once again being perfect.
We all know the truth lies somewhere in the middle and neither side really does themselves any favors. With such attitudes all debate is rendered useless as the "side your on" depends entirety on the outcome of the game and nothing to do at all with the actual quality of the refs/refereeing systems performance.
It's ridiculous to expect that the ref does not have an influence on the game.
It's equally ridiculous to expect that we will ever make a perfect system - unless we do away with refs entirely and use robots to do it.
The "rub of the green" is one of those intangibles in sport that we know has an effect on the game but you can't control it on the day. One day you will get the 50/50 calls, the other you wont. You hope over time it simply balances out. It's all part of sport which makes it unpredictable and interesting and results in upsets we might not otherwise predict.
@Windows97 On the contrary...
https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/5006/waikato-v-tasman-premiership-final/101?page=6
Here you see a perfect example of gracious losing - the previous page notes discussion of some contentious calls - though not by me.
Much like the Chiefs we died of self-inflicted wounds that night!
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@Toddy said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
I didn't realise Cane never fronted the press conference afterwards. Appears pretty gutless unless he had genuine reason to skip it.
ffs.. way to get sucked into clickbait.. especially some from Reason.
chiefs have co-captains - cane did the post match on field, webby did the after match.
@WillieTheWaiter I didnt see the McMillan post game presser, but I distinctly remember both Cane and Weber doing on field interviews. Weber’s one was quite emotional.
I think if there are co-captains they should both attend the post game presser. It’s probably a good way to share the questions and limit the pressure on one player.
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@Toddy said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
I didn't realise Cane never fronted the press conference afterwards. Appears pretty gutless unless he had genuine reason to skip it.
ffs.. way to get sucked into clickbait.. especially some from Reason.
chiefs have co-captains - cane did the post match on field, webby did the after match.
@WillieTheWaiter said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@Toddy said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
I didn't realise Cane never fronted the press conference afterwards. Appears pretty gutless unless he had genuine reason to skip it.
ffs.. way to get sucked into clickbait.. especially some from Reason.
chiefs have co-captains - cane did the post match on field, webby did the after match.
Yep Willie, haven't read it as I won't help clickbait journos like Reason, but I saw someone who looked an asful lot Cane being interviewed post match, and pointed that out to someone who then said oh I wasn't watching after game properly!!
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@WillieTheWaiter I didnt see the McMillan post game presser, but I distinctly remember both Cane and Weber doing on field interviews. Weber’s one was quite emotional.
I think if there are co-captains they should both attend the post game presser. It’s probably a good way to share the questions and limit the pressure on one player.
@ACT-Crusader said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@WillieTheWaiter I didnt see the McMillan post game presser, but I distinctly remember both Cane and Weber doing on field interviews. Weber’s one was quite emotional.
I think if there are co-captains they should both attend the post game presser. It’s probably a good way to share the questions and limit the pressure on one player.
Unless of course the Coach tells them to give it a miss.
