Final: Chiefs v Crusaders
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There were two "shockers" by the ref tonight. ALB should have gotten a red, which would have had a major impact on the game, and a missed forward pass several phases before a try was scored, which would have had a marginal impact on the match at the time.
All of the rest were pretty normal ruby calls, nothing to call the WAHHHHHHHHAMBULANCE about.
@Canerbry said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
There were two "shockers" by the ref tonight. ALB should have gotten a red, which would have had a major impact on the game, and a missed forward pass several phases before a try was scored, which would have had a marginal impact on the match at the time.
All of the rest were pretty normal ruby calls, nothing to call the WAHHHHHHHHAMBULANCE about.
You can't blame the red card on BOK. What the TMO was thinking is a different matter!
To get some idea of the impact of the forward pass, recall that Jesters went from conceding try to penalty on half way. Even Bryn Hall on RPA acknowledged that (correctly I might add) saved the game for Jesters.
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@kiwi_expat said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@nostrildamus Chiefs performed better given the circumstances, 22 of the Crusaders 25 points were scored against 14 men, 3 yellow cards, roughly 1/2 the match disadvantaged, Crusaders looked clueless whenever the Chiefs had a full compliment.
Maybe if they hadn’t infringed the Crusaders would have scored prior. Using the existing rules the team with the most points wins.
@kev said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@kiwi_expat said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@nostrildamus Chiefs performed better given the circumstances, 22 of the Crusaders 25 points were scored against 14 men, 3 yellow cards, roughly 1/2 the match disadvantaged, Crusaders looked clueless whenever the Chiefs had a full compliment.
Using the existing rules the team with the most points wins.
You're behind the times, Kev. Apparently, once there's a forward pass, any inconvenient rules, facts or events can be discarded!
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In the history of stupid shit I have read on the Fern
And that's quite some history over the past 15-odd years
The last 10 pages is right up there
Have a fucking look at yourselves.
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Why is everyone acting like the on field officials had no idea about Dmac being offside? The ref and touchie seemed to immediately be talking about it and specifically called it out when referring in to the tmo. If there was no tmo then I think that try still gets called back based on what the touch judge saw. As others have pointed out, the markings on the field made it really blatant that he wasn't back 10.
@Cyclops said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
Why is everyone acting like the on field officials had no idea about Dmac being offside? The ref and touchie seemed to immediately be talking about it and specifically called it out when referring in to the tmo. If there was no tmo then I think that try still gets called back based on what the touch judge saw. As others have pointed out, the markings on the field made it really blatant that he wasn't back 10.
Everyone?
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Fuck me, the Chiefs blew this game and like @game_film says above, the Saders found a way. The ref, linesman and TMO are not to blame for the result. And just quietly - the Saders were on the end of some shit calls too.
If I was a Chief's supporter I would be gutted. They had every right to expect to win the final after consistently being the better team through the season. But that's the thing when competitions have finals. Sometimes the competition's leaders don't win it.
I would love to see the ABs play like the Saders did in the period leading up to Cane's yellow. That was simple, brutal rugby. They smashed their way up the field. Hats off to the Chiefs for keeping them out, but unfortunately for them Cane flinched.
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@Cyclops said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
Why is everyone acting like the on field officials had no idea about Dmac being offside? The ref and touchie seemed to immediately be talking about it and specifically called it out when referring in to the tmo. If there was no tmo then I think that try still gets called back based on what the touch judge saw. As others have pointed out, the markings on the field made it really blatant that he wasn't back 10.
Everyone?
@booboo said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@Cyclops said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
Why is everyone acting like the on field officials had no idea about Dmac being offside? The ref and touchie seemed to immediately be talking about it and specifically called it out when referring in to the tmo. If there was no tmo then I think that try still gets called back based on what the touch judge saw. As others have pointed out, the markings on the field made it really blatant that he wasn't back 10.
Everyone?
Fair cop. 'Vocal minority'.
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The thing that I like the most about this final is the ability of the Crusaders to ruthlessly exploit the Chiefs ill discipline and get the win against the odds. That's exactly what I want to see from the ABs - that ruthlessness has been missing post 2015 (mostly due to the player exodus) but we haven't been able to recapture it. In fact the opposite has happened - other teams have been exploiting AB ill discipline very effectively, which has cost us games. Razor was my 2nd choice for coach (I wanted Schmidt), but that does bode well for us next year.
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@Stargazer said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@kiwi_expat said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
Crusaders looked clueless
Only in your head.
The way the Crusaders ruthlessly throttled the Chiefs in the dying minutes with that unbroken and menacing line of defenders was a brutal and effective spectacle I'd love to see in the ABs tactics book.
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Good from Sam Cane
“They do an outstanding job in what’s probably one of the toughest jobs in sport, and they play such a vital role from the grassroots all the way up to our footy,” Cane said.
“There’s an old saying that you don’t have a game without them. And no-one deserves to cop that sort of abuse, everyone goes out there to do the very best that they can. They’re no different to us as players, they’ve got to make split-second decisions
“So we’re lucky to have such a quality ref like Ben here in New Zealand, and I’m pleased to see that he’s called out that sort of behaviour.”
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Foster correct in this points to one of the real reasons the Chiefs lost.
”We don't want them [yellow cards] and I am sure the Chiefs didn't want them,” Foster said.“Sometimes there is a bit of a lesson there, your senior players can sometimes want things so badly that they just over-extend or force a play when they don't need to.
“So, it's like every pressure moment, there's some great learnings in that.”
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@kiwi_expat said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@nostrildamus Chiefs performed better given the circumstances, 22 of the Crusaders 25 points were scored against 14 men, 3 yellow cards, roughly 1/2 the match disadvantaged, Crusaders looked clueless whenever the Chiefs had a full compliment.
I think you meant complement. Given that, you are saying for those 3 yellow cards, 37.5% of the game (or for nearly all of it given ALB should have been given a red card), the Crusaders didn't look clueless.
I am afraid we have to consider discipline: the Chiefs made key mistakes and the Crusaders were ruthless in capitalizing on those mistakes and squeezing the Chiefs out of the game. That is how they typically play.
I'd have been happy if the Chiefs won, but they had their chances and their warnings, and they didn't change tack.
That shows even if their players individually may have been superior the team had a tactical or leadership flaw.@nostrildamus said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
I am afraid we have to consider discipline: the Chiefs made key mistakes and the Crusaders were ruthless in capitalizing on those mistakes and squeezing the Chiefs out of the game.
That's not how I saw it at all, this was quite similar to the Woman's WC final where the Ferns nearly handed England the win on a platter despite having a man advantage for a large chunk of the game, Crusaders were not ruthless, it's a numbers game & they won because of that.
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@nostrildamus said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
I am afraid we have to consider discipline: the Chiefs made key mistakes and the Crusaders were ruthless in capitalizing on those mistakes and squeezing the Chiefs out of the game.
That's not how I saw it at all, this was quite similar to the Woman's WC final where the Ferns nearly handed England the win on a platter despite having a man advantage for a large chunk of the game, Crusaders were not ruthless, it's a numbers game & they won because of that.
@kiwi_expat said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@nostrildamus said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
I am afraid we have to consider discipline: the Chiefs made key mistakes and the Crusaders were ruthless in capitalizing on those mistakes and squeezing the Chiefs out of the game.
That's not how I saw it at all, this was quite similar to the Woman's WC final where the Ferns nearly handed England the win on a platter despite having a man advantage for a large chunk of the game, Crusaders were not ruthless, it's a numbers game & they won because of that.
There have been so many matches in the last 5 years alone that teams have won when they have had yellow cards, and even red and been down player/s. Teams train scenarios being down a man.
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Don’t understand all the fuss about this one. Chiefs blew it, Saders hung in there and found a way. Love me some Brer O’Keefe. Just a shame he won’t be able to ref the RWC final.
@game_film said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
Don’t understand all the fuss about this one. Chiefs blew it, Saders hung in there and found a way. Love me some Brer O’Keefe. Just a shame he won’t be able to ref the RWC final.
Who would he favour then France or Ireland?
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@Canerbry said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
There were two "shockers" by the ref tonight. ALB should have gotten a red, which would have had a major impact on the game, and a missed forward pass several phases before a try was scored, which would have had a marginal impact on the match at the time.
All of the rest were pretty normal ruby calls, nothing to call the WAHHHHHHHHAMBULANCE about.
You can't blame the red card on BOK. What the TMO was thinking is a different matter!
To get some idea of the impact of the forward pass, recall that Jesters went from conceding try to penalty on half way. Even Bryn Hall on RPA acknowledged that (correctly I might add) saved the game for Jesters.
@pakman said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@Canerbry said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
There were two "shockers" by the ref tonight. ALB should have gotten a red, which would have had a major impact on the game, and a missed forward pass several phases before a try was scored, which would have had a marginal impact on the match at the time.
All of the rest were pretty normal ruby calls, nothing to call the WAHHHHHHHHAMBULANCE about.
You can't blame the red card on BOK. What the TMO was thinking is a different matter!
To get some idea of the impact of the forward pass, recall that Jesters went from conceding try to penalty on half way. Even Bryn Hall on RPA acknowledged that (correctly I might add) saved the game for Jesters.
How did Bryn Hall know what was going to happen from that point on? Is he some sort of time traveller?
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@pakman said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@Canerbry said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
There were two "shockers" by the ref tonight. ALB should have gotten a red, which would have had a major impact on the game, and a missed forward pass several phases before a try was scored, which would have had a marginal impact on the match at the time.
All of the rest were pretty normal ruby calls, nothing to call the WAHHHHHHHHAMBULANCE about.
You can't blame the red card on BOK. What the TMO was thinking is a different matter!
To get some idea of the impact of the forward pass, recall that Jesters went from conceding try to penalty on half way. Even Bryn Hall on RPA acknowledged that (correctly I might add) saved the game for Jesters.
How did Bryn Hall know what was going to happen from that point on? Is he some sort of time traveller?
@Nevorian said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
How did Bryn Hall know what was going to happen from that point on? Is he some sort of time traveller?
If he is, he should've spent more time as a young bloke practising his passing...
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@game_film said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
Don’t understand all the fuss about this one. Chiefs blew it, Saders hung in there and found a way. Love me some Brer O’Keefe. Just a shame he won’t be able to ref the RWC final.
Who would he favour then France or Ireland?
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@Nevorian said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
How did Bryn Hall know what was going to happen from that point on? Is he some sort of time traveller?
If he is, he should've spent more time as a young bloke practising his passing...
@antipodean said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@Nevorian said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
How did Bryn Hall know what was going to happen from that point on? Is he some sort of time traveller?
If he is, he should've spent more time as a young bloke practising his passing...
If we had Bryn Hall playing we would’ve won by more.
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@antipodean said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@Nevorian said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
How did Bryn Hall know what was going to happen from that point on? Is he some sort of time traveller?
If he is, he should've spent more time as a young bloke practising his passing...
If we had Bryn Hall playing we would’ve won by more.
@ACT-Crusader said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@antipodean said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@Nevorian said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
How did Bryn Hall know what was going to happen from that point on? Is he some sort of time traveller?
If he is, he should've spent more time as a young bloke practising his passing...
If we had Bryn Hall playing we would’ve won by more.
That statement is a reflection on Drummond.
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@Nevorian Could see him getting the France game in the semis. Barnes is the obvious choice for the final and he won’t have to worry about England being there.
@game_film said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@Nevorian Could see him getting the France game in the semis. Barnes is the obvious choice for the final and he won’t have to worry about England being there.
I'm not going to let this one slide. Why do you think Barnes is the obvious choice?
I'd rank him about 5th. Plenty I'd put above him.
Luke Pearce is the best NH ref by a mile.
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@game_film said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
Don’t understand all the fuss about this one. Chiefs blew it, Saders hung in there and found a way. Love me some Brer O’Keefe. Just a shame he won’t be able to ref the RWC final.
Who would he favour then France or Ireland?
@Nevorian said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@game_film said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
Don’t understand all the fuss about this one. Chiefs blew it, Saders hung in there and found a way. Love me some Brer O’Keefe. Just a shame he won’t be able to ref the RWC final.
Who would he favour then France or Ireland?
'Brer O'Keefe' sounds vaguely of Irish origin so...
