All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham
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@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@MiketheSnow No, it is not just you. If you followed super rugby this year you would have seen the Chiefs top the table before losing the final to the Crusaders by playing a long territorial kicking game all season with McKenzie and Stevenson.
Our coaching / tactics are appalling.Vs Blues who crashed and burned again
@kev said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@MiketheSnow No, it is not just you. If you followed super rugby this year you would have seen the Chiefs top the table before losing the final to the Crusaders by playing a long territorial kicking game all season with McKenzie and Stevenson.
Our coaching / tactics are appalling.Vs Blues who crashed and burned again
Using a contestable kick heavy game plan.
I'm wondering if Schmidt is getting a far easier ride than he deserves. It feels a bit moneyball to me, with a (mistaken) consideration of the ratio of contestables to regathers and opposition mistakes versus chance of them getting clean possession and easy scoring opportunities.
The issue I have with it is that you can easily find yourself down two scores if two of those contestables go against you early, all you need is one great return or a mistake from us, and the opposition will camp out and wait until they can get their points.
I do see the benefit of it as a tactic at certain times in a tight match, but it can't be the basis of our exit strategy. We need to be able to exit our territory.
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@kev said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@MiketheSnow No, it is not just you. If you followed super rugby this year you would have seen the Chiefs top the table before losing the final to the Crusaders by playing a long territorial kicking game all season with McKenzie and Stevenson.
Our coaching / tactics are appalling.Vs Blues who crashed and burned again
Using a contestable kick heavy game plan.
I'm wondering if Schmidt is getting a far easier ride than he deserves. It feels a bit moneyball to me, with a (mistaken) consideration of the ratio of contestables to regathers and opposition mistakes versus chance of them getting clean possession and easy scoring opportunities.
The issue I have with it is that you can easily find yourself down two scores if two of those contestables go against you early, all you need is one great return or a mistake from us, and the opposition will camp out and wait until they can get their points.
I do see the benefit of it as a tactic at certain times in a tight match, but it can't be the basis of our exit strategy. We need to be able to exit our territory.
@gt12 This stupid moneyball tactic was in use well before Schmidt, BB has been doing it for years it seems. The Chiefs tactics were so different this year it was refreshing to see. I think DMAC kicked well over twice the penalties as any other team in the comp. Seems even blind freddy can see it is simply not worth the gamble in the test arena.
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A Saturday morning press conference with Foz and more handling of the ball than his side did for 80 minutes yesterday.
@sparky said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
A Saturday morning press conference with Foz and more handling of the ball than his side did for 80 minutes yesterday.
Wish they asked him about playing footy in your own 22 when you are under the pump.
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God you're boring @Machpants
I'm sure it was Ian Foster who told them to give away dumb penalty after dumb penalty. To dive head first at a player on the ground. To miss tackles. To miss goal kicks.
How bad are NZ rugby players that they would be amazing except their coach told them not to
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
God you're boring @Machpants
I'm sure it was Ian Foster who told them to give away dumb penalty after dumb penalty. To dive head first at a player on the ground. To miss tackles. To miss goal kicks.
How bad are NZ rugby players that they would be amazing except their coach told them not to
In no way did I say that. My point is the team are under so much pressure, which leads to more errors and penalties by the players, due to tactics. Yes the players were shit, but they have been good. But playing the ball in the 22, cross kicks and short kicks rather than decent exits, is a core problem. It came off beautifully last SA game, an unheard-of two thirds of kicks recovered. When the opposition catch the ball, and ABs get the normal ten percent back, it just creates tries for the opposition and/or more pressure in our red zone. And that had always been a go to tactic for the ABs under foster, and is unbelievably stupid. Attempting too run it out of the 22 even when opposition defence is set, is a foster tactic in the same vein, one little error and you're fucked
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@booboo nah we lost because the bok played better. not making excuses just little things make a difference which add uo to a [poor performance
@ploughboy said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@booboo nah we lost because the bok played better. not making excuses just little things make a difference which add uo to a [poor performance
I'm not taking shots, I'm doing it (identifying contributing reasons) too.
Just finding it amusing when I step back and notice it all.
There's plenty of contributory factors, and I'm not writing us off, or inking them in on the basis of that game.
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@ploughboy said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@booboo nah we lost because the bok played better. not making excuses just little things make a difference which add uo to a [poor performance
I'm not taking shots, I'm doing it (identifying contributing reasons) too.
Just finding it amusing when I step back and notice it all.
There's plenty of contributory factors, and I'm not writing us off, or inking them in on the basis of that game.
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@ploughboy said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@booboo nah we lost because the bok played better. not making excuses just little things make a difference which add uo to a [poor performance
I'm not taking shots, I'm doing it (identifying contributing reasons) too.
Just finding it amusing when I step back and notice it all.
There's plenty of contributory factors, and I'm not writing us off, or inking them in on the basis of that game.
The weekend's results just show that this cup is wide open. If you don't show up mentally and physically you can seriously get beaten
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@booboo said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@ploughboy said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@booboo nah we lost because the bok played better. not making excuses just little things make a difference which add uo to a [poor performance
I'm not taking shots, I'm doing it (identifying contributing reasons) too.
Just finding it amusing when I step back and notice it all.
There's plenty of contributory factors, and I'm not writing us off, or inking them in on the basis of that game.
The weekend's results just show that this cup is wide open. If you don't show up mentally and physically you can seriously get beaten
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@ploughboy said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@booboo nah we lost because the bok played better. not making excuses just little things make a difference which add uo to a [poor performance
I'm not taking shots, I'm doing it (identifying contributing reasons) too.
Just finding it amusing when I step back and notice it all.
There's plenty of contributory factors, and I'm not writing us off, or inking them in on the basis of that game.
The weekend's results just show that this cup is wide open. If you don't show up mentally and physically you can seriously get beaten
I commented on the wildly swinging, week to week results last year.
It's always been small margins swing results in Tests. Now it's small margins severely impact scores.
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one thing we will never know but i would imagine our training load would be huge at the moment which would facter into fatigue later into game
@ploughboy said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
one thing we will never know but i would imagine our training load would be huge at the moment which would facter into fatigue later into game
In a recent interview with shag , he talked about the training preparing for the final stages as being the most important part . And the pool games , you just do enough to qualify, and he spoke about 2015 where they were flat in the pool games from exactly that .
He suggested they would be following a similar program this year .
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@Machpants said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@Machpants said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
Even if he does win the cup, this is not good enough.
Really? I'd have thought winning the RWC would come before a warm-up game.
Yes because ABs should be better than this, the RWC is top priority but it is not everything
This game wouldn't even be played if there wasn't a RWC.
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
This game wouldn't even be played if there wasn't a RWC.
Bollocks.
Every other team is playing warm-up games. Many are playing several. Yet you think we should go into the RWC absolutely cold? If we had gone in cold, this performance would have been against France.
I've stayed off commenting on the Fern this year because I've ridden the Foster train before, and I am well aware that this is exactly what his teams do. Always have.
The bad parts of that game were pure Foster. Back to poor exits. Back to defensive bombs. Back to poor discipline. Still never dropping players, ever, no matter how bad. Still the game plan from 2005, where we think we can run other sides off their feet. Still "clever" selections like making sure our best hooker gets almost no game time, loses his mojo, and is then terrible when you finally let him get onto the field.
After four years of this bullshit, I can't believe some of you think Foster is not the main culprit. How many terrible records does he have to break before you realise that he is a dreadful coach? You just watched that dreck, and think, "you know what, I'll stick up for him".
And for those of you who think that the All Blacks have had a wake-up call and won't be this bad again, well I have news for you. We will never be this bad again -- it was, after all our biggest loss ever -- but Foster is capable of pretty much anything, when it comes to bad.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@Machpants said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
And he can't own up when his team puts what is objectively the worst performance ever in black
Utter fucking nonsense.
So a28 point loss isn't objectively the worst ever? Carry on in your dream world. He at no point in the interview admits anything but good learnings. Not 'we didn't prepare well enough' nor 'the tactics weren't quite right' doing shitty little kicks in our 22.Just we will learn. Except they don't and haven't over the last 6 odd years
@Machpants said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@Machpants said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
And he can't own up when his team puts what is objectively the worst performance ever in black
Utter fucking nonsense.
So a28 point loss isn't objectively the worst ever? Carry on in your dream world. He at no point in the interview admits anything but good learnings. Not 'we didn't prepare well enough' nor 'the tactics weren't quite right' doing shitty little kicks in our 22.Just we will learn. Except they don't and haven't over the last 6 odd years
Losing to Munster 12-0 in 78 is the worst ever…
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@ploughboy said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
one thing we will never know but i would imagine our training load would be huge at the moment which would facter into fatigue later into game
In a recent interview with shag , he talked about the training preparing for the final stages as being the most important part . And the pool games , you just do enough to qualify, and he spoke about 2015 where they were flat in the pool games from exactly that .
He suggested they would be following a similar program this year .
@kiwiinmelb was thinking about 2015 when i posted that. with out speadout games would make sense
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I can visualise some unsung hero changing the narrative by luck rather than design, thrust into the piece due to injury or suspension. A Roigard or DMAC type getting loads of minutes due to unforeseen circumstances.
I think the Allblacks are going to belt some big team, either France up first or SA/IRE in the quarters, but can't see them putting it together over consecutive weeks.
Its going to be ref heavy, TMO heavy, score board ticking in 3's type Rugby.
Playing rippa rugby in your own 22 in Autumn on NH pitches doesn't look like its going to work 6 weeks in a row.
The team is a raking punt light both at 10 and 15.
No pressure valve being offered from 9 either bar the potential of Roigards left boot off the bench.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
This game wouldn't even be played if there wasn't a RWC.
Bollocks.
Every other team is playing warm-up games. Many are playing several. Yet you think we should go into the RWC absolutely cold? If we had gone in cold, this performance would have been against France.
I've stayed off commenting on the Fern this year because I've ridden the Foster train before, and I am well aware that this is exactly what his teams do. Always have.
The bad parts of that game were pure Foster. Back to poor exits. Back to defensive bombs. Back to poor discipline. Still never dropping players, ever, no matter how bad. Still the game plan from 2005, where we think we can run other sides off their feet. Still "clever" selections like making sure our best hooker gets almost no game time, loses his mojo, and is then terrible when you finally let him get onto the field.
After four years of this bullshit, I can't believe some of you think Foster is not the main culprit. How many terrible records does he have to break before you realise that he is a dreadful coach? You just watched that dreck, and think, "you know what, I'll stick up for him".
And for those of you who think that the All Blacks have had a wake-up call and won't be this bad again, well I have news for you. We will never be this bad again -- it was, after all our biggest loss ever -- but Foster is capable of pretty much anything, when it comes to bad.
@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
Still never dropping players, ever, no matter how bad.
This is his biggest weakness in my opinion.
In the past, rightly or wrongly, other managers made big calls with some big players. Mitchell dropped Cullen while he still had something to offer, Nonu got dropped for the 2007 RWC, Dagg missed out in 2015, Ben Smith and Cane dropped for the semi in 2019.
Foster has been in the setup for so long that it seems he has a cadre of undroppable players. Cane and Beaudy come to mind immediately. At times during his tenure they patently did not deserve their place on the field on merit. Who is the biggest name on his kill sheet? Akira Ioane? Sotutu?
They are low hanging fruit.
As I have said many times on this forum.
The crest on the front is bigger than any name on the back. Or at least it should be for a team that prides itself on legacy and winning records.
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There was one Bok exit in thr 2nd half that had me in tears. They swung right and wipers kicked out at around our 40. No nonsense, high effect. 22 to our 40, no fuss.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
There was one Bok exit in thr 2nd half that had me in tears. They swung right and wipers kicked out at around our 40. No nonsense, high effect. 22 to our 40, no fuss.
Yep, I noticed that, they were very effective at exits in Mt Smart also, the goal should always be the halfway line, anything less than that just puts you back under pressure.
The fact we got a penalty inside our 22 and the touch finder barely went past the 22 highlights this issue.
It is odd as we have a big boot at 12 that should be able to clear better. Don't Ireland utilise Lowe a lot? Teams seem to have worked this out, no idea why we persist with RM and BB who seem to struggle with this a lot.
It really does make the CC selection very odd as you really want a winger who is great under the high ball, has a big punt, good on D and can finish when needed.
