All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham
-
@pakman said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@NTA About nine minutes of official time.
The scrum a minute later looked to me to be textbook.
Let's watch a few eh?
06:25 - solid from both sides. Malherbe has superb control and balance, with his knee nearly on the deck but driving EdG's mass up a tick, while bending his neck down.
09:20 - post-hit:
EdG isn't in great position, arched in the upper back a little.
Lomax's side of the scrum is very low - by the time the camera zooms in, you can already see his knee on the deck through the tunnel.
The call was black THP going to knee. There's no replay angle from that side but you can see it from the open side, and by Coles and EdG having to reset their feet as the motion goes sideways.10:38 - Boks take scrum from that penalty. Whatever Lomax did wrong in the previous scrum, he corrected it. Good scrum. Good contest. Boks called to use it.
12:00 - Boks win the hit. Fucking quick heel from Coles and Ardie is away i.e.
12:02 set called
12:05 ball fed
12:06 Ardie detaches@NTA said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@pakman said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@NTA About nine minutes of official time.
The scrum a minute later looked to me to be textbook.
Let's watch a few eh?
06:25 - solid from both sides. Malherbe has superb control and balance, with his knee nearly on the deck but driving EdG's mass up a tick, while bending his neck down.
09:20 - post-hit:
EdG isn't in great position, arched in the upper back a little.
Lomax's side of the scrum is very low - by the time the camera zooms in, you can already see his knee on the deck through the tunnel.
The call was black THP going to knee. There's no replay angle from that side but you can see it from the open side, and by Coles and EdG having to reset their feet as the motion goes sideways.10:38 - Boks take scrum from that penalty. Whatever Lomax did wrong in the previous scrum, he corrected it. Good scrum. Good contest. Boks called to use it.
12:00 - Boks win the hit. Fucking quick heel from Coles and Ardie is away i.e.
12:02 set called
12:05 ball fed
12:06
-
@MN5 rankings 1, 3 & 5 in the same pool just fucking ridiculous.
But the point is still relevant.
There's no easy QF opponent in Pool B.
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@MN5 rankings 1, 3 & 5 in the same pool just fucking ridiculous.
But the point is still relevant.
There's no easy QF opponent in Pool B.
Exactly. Scotland in all probability won’t make it which is fucken ridiculous given some of the chumps on the other side of the draw who will.
-
A good day out for the Boks, and a nice way to end the warm-ups before the big show starts.
I thought the pluses for the Boks were increased accuracy, and Canaan Moodie not looking too shabby at 13.Beyond that, I'm not getting overexcited by the result. Yes, a win against the ABs is always good. But to read too much into the result for either team would be a mistake. It doesn't matter who you are, if you play the game with at least one man down for the majority of the match, you're always going to struggle. Well done to the Bokke for clinically capitalizing, but I wouldn't be all doom-and-gloom if I were an AB fan. It was simply a bad day at the office, compounded by cards. And every team has an off day somewhere along the lines. Maybe the ABs have gotten theirs out the way early? Better now than in the knock-out stages of the RWC.
@Billy-Webb I don't think the boks' performance can be called clinical - by my count they left four clear scoring opportunities on the field* as well as a couple more half chances.
I'd rather say the boks hit all their KPIs but didn't really exceed them.
*that is not to say the boks should have had an extra twenty points - some like the two held up, Mapimpi getting pushed into touch or where Moodie was slow to fold round Mapimpi; were either under advantage or led to points soon after.
I don't want to say it on this forum, but the ABs were very poor in this game. The number of errors they made meant they were invited pressure onto themselves and allowed SA to be a bit careless with opportunities they manufactured.
-
@Billy-Webb I don't think the boks' performance can be called clinical - by my count they left four clear scoring opportunities on the field* as well as a couple more half chances.
I'd rather say the boks hit all their KPIs but didn't really exceed them.
*that is not to say the boks should have had an extra twenty points - some like the two held up, Mapimpi getting pushed into touch or where Moodie was slow to fold round Mapimpi; were either under advantage or led to points soon after.
I don't want to say it on this forum, but the ABs were very poor in this game. The number of errors they made meant they were invited pressure onto themselves and allowed SA to be a bit careless with opportunities they manufactured.
@SidBarret said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@Billy-Webb I don't think the boks' performance can be called clinical - by my count they left four clear scoring opportunities on the field* as well as a couple more half chances.
I'd rather say the boks hit all their KPIs but didn't really exceed them.
*that is not to say the boks should have had an extra twenty points - some like the two held up, Mapimpi getting pushed into touch or where Moodie was slow to fold round Mapimpi; were either under advantage or led to points soon after.
I don't want to say it on this forum, but the ABs were very poor in this game. The number of errors they made meant they were invited pressure onto themselves and allowed SA to be a bit careless with opportunities they manufactured.
Why not? I think it was pretty clear to everyone that watched the game, the Boks played very well, the ABs didn't have a great outing
-
Christ, the doom and gloom on here is actually beyond comprehension.
It’s pretty clear that we weren’t prepared for a fired up bok team and we essentially played most of the match with 14 players.
Nothing has changed for the ABs apart from them getting a huge wake up call and that they need to be at their best to win the World Cup or even have a decent showing.
We have 7 weeks to get ourselves in the best shape we possibly can for the 1/4 final.
That was true before the saffa match and it is still true today.
The France game doesn’t really have any bearing on the 1/4 final as there is no real reward for winning that game as we are going to face either SA or Ireland.
7 weeks to get Into the best shape possible and then go into that game with full noise.
Win that one and then you’ve got 6 days etc….
It’s pretty simple really - that’s why the saffa’s are so good at RWC’s - it’s a simple formula and one they can understand.
@DaGrubster they've also had 4 years of record setting and haven't they done well. All we need is a first ever pool loss and and to not make it out of our pool all which are possibilities under Foz.
-
@SidBarret said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@Billy-Webb I don't think the boks' performance can be called clinical - by my count they left four clear scoring opportunities on the field* as well as a couple more half chances.
I'd rather say the boks hit all their KPIs but didn't really exceed them.
*that is not to say the boks should have had an extra twenty points - some like the two held up, Mapimpi getting pushed into touch or where Moodie was slow to fold round Mapimpi; were either under advantage or led to points soon after.
I don't want to say it on this forum, but the ABs were very poor in this game. The number of errors they made meant they were invited pressure onto themselves and allowed SA to be a bit careless with opportunities they manufactured.
Why not? I think it was pretty clear to everyone that watched the game, the Boks played very well, the ABs didn't have a great outing
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@SidBarret said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@Billy-Webb I don't think the boks' performance can be called clinical - by my count they left four clear scoring opportunities on the field* as well as a couple more half chances.
I'd rather say the boks hit all their KPIs but didn't really exceed them.
*that is not to say the boks should have had an extra twenty points - some like the two held up, Mapimpi getting pushed into touch or where Moodie was slow to fold round Mapimpi; were either under advantage or led to points soon after.
I don't want to say it on this forum, but the ABs were very poor in this game. The number of errors they made meant they were invited pressure onto themselves and allowed SA to be a bit careless with opportunities they manufactured.
Why not? I think it was pretty clear to everyone that watched the game, the Boks played very well, the ABs didn't have a great outing
On review I think it was a perfect storm of overly officious and inaccurate refereeing with a very good performance by the Springboks forwards. Every time the All Blacks managed to negate one aspect, the other rose to the fore.
Does that mean the All Blacks are blameless, or don't have considerable work-ons to address over the next two weeks before France? Of course not, but I'd suggest the sky isn't falling as much as some chicken littles think.
Quite frankly I'd suggest that this was more akin to the 2007 quarter final. Some uncomfortable truths that good players and coaches learn from.
This may be a cliché, but which team would you rather be? The one for whom everything went swimmingly or the one exposed? I know which has some obvious "learnings" to apply.
-
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@SidBarret said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@Billy-Webb I don't think the boks' performance can be called clinical - by my count they left four clear scoring opportunities on the field* as well as a couple more half chances.
I'd rather say the boks hit all their KPIs but didn't really exceed them.
*that is not to say the boks should have had an extra twenty points - some like the two held up, Mapimpi getting pushed into touch or where Moodie was slow to fold round Mapimpi; were either under advantage or led to points soon after.
I don't want to say it on this forum, but the ABs were very poor in this game. The number of errors they made meant they were invited pressure onto themselves and allowed SA to be a bit careless with opportunities they manufactured.
Why not? I think it was pretty clear to everyone that watched the game, the Boks played very well, the ABs didn't have a great outing
On review I think it was a perfect storm of overly officious and inaccurate refereeing with a very good performance by the Springboks forwards. Every time the All Blacks managed to negate one aspect, the other rose to the fore.
Does that mean the All Blacks are blameless, or don't have considerable work-ons to address over the next two weeks before France? Of course not, but I'd suggest the sky isn't falling as much as some chicken littles think.
Quite frankly I'd suggest that this was more akin to the 2007 quarter final. Some uncomfortable truths that good players and coaches learn from.
This may be a cliché, but which team would you rather be? The one for whom everything went swimmingly or the one exposed? I know which has some obvious "learnings" to apply.
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
This may be a cliché, but which team would you rather be?
I would much rather be backing South Africa.
-
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
This may be a cliché, but which team would you rather be?
I would much rather be backing South Africa.
@Tim said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
This may be a cliché, but which team would you rather be?
I would much rather be backing South Africa.
I too would back a team with such depth they elect to go with an additional forward pack on their bench. With the current state of the game, who wouldn't play that way?
-
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@SidBarret said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@Billy-Webb I don't think the boks' performance can be called clinical - by my count they left four clear scoring opportunities on the field* as well as a couple more half chances.
I'd rather say the boks hit all their KPIs but didn't really exceed them.
*that is not to say the boks should have had an extra twenty points - some like the two held up, Mapimpi getting pushed into touch or where Moodie was slow to fold round Mapimpi; were either under advantage or led to points soon after.
I don't want to say it on this forum, but the ABs were very poor in this game. The number of errors they made meant they were invited pressure onto themselves and allowed SA to be a bit careless with opportunities they manufactured.
Why not? I think it was pretty clear to everyone that watched the game, the Boks played very well, the ABs didn't have a great outing
On review I think it was a perfect storm of overly officious and inaccurate refereeing with a very good performance by the Springboks forwards. Every time the All Blacks managed to negate one aspect, the other rose to the fore.
Does that mean the All Blacks are blameless, or don't have considerable work-ons to address over the next two weeks before France? Of course not, but I'd suggest the sky isn't falling as much as some chicken littles think.
Quite frankly I'd suggest that this was more akin to the 2007 quarter final. Some uncomfortable truths that good players and coaches learn from.
This may be a cliché, but which team would you rather be? The one for whom everything went swimmingly or the one exposed? I know which has some obvious "learnings" to apply.
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
Does that mean the All Blacks are blameless, or don't have considerable work-ons to address over the next two weeks before France? Of course not, but I'd suggest the sky isn't falling as much as some chicken littles think.
Quite frankly I'd suggest that this was more akin to the 2007 quarter final. Some uncomfortable truths that good players and coaches learn from.
This may be a cliché, but which team would you rather be? The one for whom everything went swimmingly or the one exposed? I know which has some obvious "learnings" to apply.
The same considerable work ons they've had since circa 2017, if they've not been fixed by the current regime in almost 7 years, I'm doubtful they will be fixed in almost 7 weeks. This game has put me back to my view that I've always had under foster, that admittedly the previous 2022 games had caused me to doubt. That we only have a chance at the cup relying on luck, as any top team has, I have absolutely no confidence in winning.
-
When we play direct and with pace we can beat anyone. I just hope they were trying different things and refused to show their hand. Keeping the powder dry so to speak....
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
When we play direct we can beat anyone. I just hope they were trying different things and refused to show their hand. Keeping the powder dry so to speak....
It's like déjà vu all over again
-
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
Does that mean the All Blacks are blameless, or don't have considerable work-ons to address over the next two weeks before France? Of course not, but I'd suggest the sky isn't falling as much as some chicken littles think.
Quite frankly I'd suggest that this was more akin to the 2007 quarter final. Some uncomfortable truths that good players and coaches learn from.
This may be a cliché, but which team would you rather be? The one for whom everything went swimmingly or the one exposed? I know which has some obvious "learnings" to apply.
The same considerable work ons they've had since circa 2017, if they've not been fixed by the current regime in almost 7 years, I'm doubtful they will be fixed in almost 7 weeks. This game has put me back to my view that I've always had under foster, that admittedly the previous 2022 games had caused me to doubt. That we only have a chance at the cup relying on luck, as any top team has, I have absolutely no confidence in winning.
@Machpants said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
Does that mean the All Blacks are blameless, or don't have considerable work-ons to address over the next two weeks before France? Of course not, but I'd suggest the sky isn't falling as much as some chicken littles think.
Quite frankly I'd suggest that this was more akin to the 2007 quarter final. Some uncomfortable truths that good players and coaches learn from.
This may be a cliché, but which team would you rather be? The one for whom everything went swimmingly or the one exposed? I know which has some obvious "learnings" to apply.
The same considerable work ons they've had since circa 2017, if they've not been fixed by the current regime in almost 7 years, I'm doubtful they will be fixed in almost 7 weeks. This game has put me back to my view that I've always had under foster, that admittedly the previous 2022 games had caused me to doubt. That we only have a chance at the cup relying on luck, as any top team has, I have absolutely no confidence in winning.
Most RWC winners rely on luck at some point. As much as people (including me occasionally) love taking a giant shit on the coaches, at some point I think you need to accept the blindingly obvious - this isn't the 2015 team running out. If the best players still have brain farts, what coaching solves that? If they're physically and intellectually capable of reaching only to a certain level, then what?
-
@sparky said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
and the journalist they had on looked really smug about it all.
The show reached a new low by having Paddy Gower on
As far as Sky shows go 'Aotearoa rugby pod' is far far better than the Breakdown. Parsons drops his Chris Handy act and does some decent analysis. Hall is ok too, but doesn't criticise players enough (too many are recent teammates)
@Duluth said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@sparky said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
and the journalist they had on looked really smug about it all.
The show reached a new low by having Paddy Gower on
As far as Sky shows go 'Aotearoa rugby pod' is far far better than the Breakdown. Parsons drops his Chris Handy act and does some decent analysis. Hall is ok too, but doesn't criticise players enough (too many are recent teammates)
The breakdown is like watching CNN or something, feels like propaganda to get everyone onside .
Everyone hold hands and sing Kumbaya.
-
@Machpants said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
Does that mean the All Blacks are blameless, or don't have considerable work-ons to address over the next two weeks before France? Of course not, but I'd suggest the sky isn't falling as much as some chicken littles think.
Quite frankly I'd suggest that this was more akin to the 2007 quarter final. Some uncomfortable truths that good players and coaches learn from.
This may be a cliché, but which team would you rather be? The one for whom everything went swimmingly or the one exposed? I know which has some obvious "learnings" to apply.
The same considerable work ons they've had since circa 2017, if they've not been fixed by the current regime in almost 7 years, I'm doubtful they will be fixed in almost 7 weeks. This game has put me back to my view that I've always had under foster, that admittedly the previous 2022 games had caused me to doubt. That we only have a chance at the cup relying on luck, as any top team has, I have absolutely no confidence in winning.
Most RWC winners rely on luck at some point. As much as people (including me occasionally) love taking a giant shit on the coaches, at some point I think you need to accept the blindingly obvious - this isn't the 2015 team running out. If the best players still have brain farts, what coaching solves that? If they're physically and intellectually capable of reaching only to a certain level, then what?
@antipodean if foster just stopped his tactic fucking about in the 22 as default, even against set defences, I would feel much better. That is a killer, works versus minnows and a loose Australia. It worked beyond belief this year versus SA, but that realty is an anomaly. But it is dumb as fuck play, and I hope to never see it again as default. That's not brain fwrts, or poor execution by the players. It is a default 'exit strategy' under foster.
-
@antipodean if foster just stopped his tactic fucking about in the 22 as default, even against set defences, I would feel much better. That is a killer, works versus minnows and a loose Australia. It worked beyond belief this year versus SA, but that realty is an anomaly. But it is dumb as fuck play, and I hope to never see it again as default. That's not brain fwrts, or poor execution by the players. It is a default 'exit strategy' under foster.
@Machpants said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@antipodean if foster just stopped his tactic fucking about in the 22 as default, even against set defences, I would feel much better. That is a killer, works versus minnows and a loose Australia. It worked beyond belief this year versus SA, but that realty is an anomaly. But it is dumb as fuck play, and I hope to never see it again as default. That's not brain fwrts, or poor execution by the players. It is a default 'exit strategy' under foster.
Defences expect to have the ball kicked from the 22, so the further you kick it to them, the easier it is to carry the ball back and find space on the return. If you don't have an overly dominating lineout, you're often just giving the ball back to them around the 40 anyway. Contestable kicks are statistically a better option. That's why most teams do them, including the top five ranked nations.
-
@Tim said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
This may be a cliché, but which team would you rather be?
I would much rather be backing South Africa.
I too would back a team with such depth they elect to go with an additional forward pack on their bench. With the current state of the game, who wouldn't play that way?
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@Tim said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
This may be a cliché, but which team would you rather be?
I would much rather be backing South Africa.
I too would back a team with such depth they elect to go with an additional forward pack on their bench. With the current state of the game, who wouldn't play that way?
Their game plan stands up well in high pressure games
-
@Machpants said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@antipodean if foster just stopped his tactic fucking about in the 22 as default, even against set defences, I would feel much better. That is a killer, works versus minnows and a loose Australia. It worked beyond belief this year versus SA, but that realty is an anomaly. But it is dumb as fuck play, and I hope to never see it again as default. That's not brain fwrts, or poor execution by the players. It is a default 'exit strategy' under foster.
Defences expect to have the ball kicked from the 22, so the further you kick it to them, the easier it is to carry the ball back and find space on the return. If you don't have an overly dominating lineout, you're often just giving the ball back to them around the 40 anyway. Contestable kicks are statistically a better option. That's why most teams do them, including the top five ranked nations.
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@Machpants said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@antipodean if foster just stopped his tactic fucking about in the 22 as default, even against set defences, I would feel much better. That is a killer, works versus minnows and a loose Australia. It worked beyond belief this year versus SA, but that realty is an anomaly. But it is dumb as fuck play, and I hope to never see it again as default. That's not brain fwrts, or poor execution by the players. It is a default 'exit strategy' under foster.
Defences expect to have the ball kicked from the 22, so the further you kick it to them, the easier it is to carry the ball back and find space on the return. If you don't have an overly dominating lineout, you're often just giving the ball back to them around the 40 anyway. Contestable kicks are statistically a better option. That's why most teams do them, including the top five ranked nations.
Contestable kicks are okay if you contest them, as in the Mt Smart Boks test
-
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@Tim said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
This may be a cliché, but which team would you rather be?
I would much rather be backing South Africa.
I too would back a team with such depth they elect to go with an additional forward pack on their bench. With the current state of the game, who wouldn't play that way?
Their game plan stands up well in high pressure games
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@Tim said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
This may be a cliché, but which team would you rather be?
I would much rather be backing South Africa.
I too would back a team with such depth they elect to go with an additional forward pack on their bench. With the current state of the game, who wouldn't play that way?
Their game plan stands up well in high pressure games
I discussed the game with a South African (and his English girlfriend) immediately after the game ended and made the point, conceded to by my new friends, that a better team than the Springbok would have scored more points. Admittedly you only need one more point to win, but it's unlikely to have such dominance in games so each opportunity needs to count.
-
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@Machpants said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@antipodean if foster just stopped his tactic fucking about in the 22 as default, even against set defences, I would feel much better. That is a killer, works versus minnows and a loose Australia. It worked beyond belief this year versus SA, but that realty is an anomaly. But it is dumb as fuck play, and I hope to never see it again as default. That's not brain fwrts, or poor execution by the players. It is a default 'exit strategy' under foster.
Defences expect to have the ball kicked from the 22, so the further you kick it to them, the easier it is to carry the ball back and find space on the return. If you don't have an overly dominating lineout, you're often just giving the ball back to them around the 40 anyway. Contestable kicks are statistically a better option. That's why most teams do them, including the top five ranked nations.
Contestable kicks are okay if you contest them, as in the Mt Smart Boks test
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@Machpants said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@antipodean if foster just stopped his tactic fucking about in the 22 as default, even against set defences, I would feel much better. That is a killer, works versus minnows and a loose Australia. It worked beyond belief this year versus SA, but that realty is an anomaly. But it is dumb as fuck play, and I hope to never see it again as default. That's not brain fwrts, or poor execution by the players. It is a default 'exit strategy' under foster.
Defences expect to have the ball kicked from the 22, so the further you kick it to them, the easier it is to carry the ball back and find space on the return. If you don't have an overly dominating lineout, you're often just giving the ball back to them around the 40 anyway. Contestable kicks are statistically a better option. That's why most teams do them, including the top five ranked nations.
Contestable kicks are okay if you contest them, as in the Mt Smart Boks test
Which goes to my general point. Does anyone seriously think Foster is busy telling wingers not to contest, or kickers to make them uncontestable?
How many people were calling for SS to be included until it was made perfectly clear in an actual Test why he has to work on his game?
