RWC Week 1: France v All Blacks
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@Duluth Hardly - Papps doesn't have any of the requisite skills to bring balance to the loose forward trio (through no fault of his own I might add, he's been played hopelessly out of position).
I was pretty clear what those skills were in my first post.
Cane and Savea present an unbalanced loose forward combination, adding Papps makes it even more unbalanced, how heavy Papps is pales into comparison with the other obvious issues.
Goal posts have still moved
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@Kiwiwomble said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
@Chris this is what a lot of my critiques come down too, i struggle to get my head around the big picture that fozzie is working towards to the point im not sure he has one. it really does feel like he's rated everyone and then just picked the best 32 players, thats how we ended up with only 3 locks and 5 wingers
my rudimentary understand of a squad selection, you pick your prefered 23...then go through and say if that guy is injured...what do we do, who do we need to cover...and then if the best person to cover is a different type of player then you need back up game plans etc....an you build it up
and it doesnt feel like fozzie has given it that much throught
There must be key positions that need dedicated replacements. If you were a coach, you would list them in order of importance and work out which positions impact the overall team the most and base your squad off that.
You could argue every position is important and needs a good replacement however certain positions like Wing can be covered at a pinch by Fullbacks, Centres etc. Your Blindside Flanker has evolved into a very important role as they need to be the perfect mix of tight and loose. They need to jump in the lineout, clean rucks, aggressive D and powerful offence.
The loose trio is more about balance than individuals, you simply cannot have 3 players who are all Cane types who tackle non stop but offer little on attack. Ardie is unique in that he is well balanced but just a little short for the lineout work. If you have Cane and Ardie you have to have a Frizell, Ioane, Finau type player at 6.
The fact these selectors thought an extra winger was more important than the blindside/lock is a massive error in my mind.
@chimoaus said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
The loose trio is more about balance than individuals, you simply cannot have 3 players who are all Cane types who tackle non stop but offer little on attack. Ardie is unique in that he is well balanced but just a little short for the lineout work. If you have Cane and Ardie you have to have a Frizell, Ioane, Finau type player at 6.
I agree with all of that.
But the squad is done now. So what's the best choice from inside the squad?
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@chimoaus said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
The loose trio is more about balance than individuals, you simply cannot have 3 players who are all Cane types who tackle non stop but offer little on attack. Ardie is unique in that he is well balanced but just a little short for the lineout work. If you have Cane and Ardie you have to have a Frizell, Ioane, Finau type player at 6.
I agree with all of that.
But the squad is done now. So what's the best choice from inside the squad?
@Duluth said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
@chimoaus said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
The loose trio is more about balance than individuals, you simply cannot have 3 players who are all Cane types who tackle non stop but offer little on attack. Ardie is unique in that he is well balanced but just a little short for the lineout work. If you have Cane and Ardie you have to have a Frizell, Ioane, Finau type player at 6.
I agree with all of that.
But the squad is done now. So what's the best choice from inside the squad?
Scott Barrett, but he is also the best choice at lock. So yeah the options are two players not suited, oh well
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Jacobsen - but he got exposed cruelly against SA.
We can now watch Papps get cruelly exposed against France.
Good times...
@Windows97 said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
Jacobsen - but he got exposed cruelly against SA.
We can now watch Papps get cruelly exposed against France.
Good times...
Jacobson was not alone in getting exposed when they were down to 14 for most of the game
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@Chris said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
Ahh Ok still we need back up power players imo in the squad.
Sounds like you are advocating for someone like Akira
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@Chris said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
Ahh Ok still we need back up power players imo in the squad.
Sounds like you are advocating for someone like Akira
@No-Quarter
He hasn't convinced me he is a true power player often enough.If he did definitely. -
When you lose an experienced guy who has been your power player and you lose him from your pack then you do become very vulnerable.
Should we not have an alternative to a power player at 6, like another one in the squad or a power 8 in the squad.
Or are we just hoping the one we have can play every game without an injury or slump in form.
Surly if the no1 game plan is to have a power forward in your LF trio you would have some back ups, instead of having to change your game plan to accommodate a non power Loosie.
Otherwise we are playing a certain game plan without the right tools at times.@Chris said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
When you lose an experienced guy who has been your power player and you lose him from your pack then you do become very vulnerable.
Should we not have an alternative to a power player at 6, like another one in the squad or a power 8 in the squad.
Or are we just hoping the one we have can play every game without an injury or slump in form.
Surly if the no1 game plan is to have a power forward in your LF trio you would have some back ups, instead of having to change your game plan to accommodate a non power Loosie.
Otherwise we are playing a certain game plan without the right tools at times.that comment from Foster is hilarious after he's selected 5 wingers and left Finau out.
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There's quite a lot of panic happening across a few threads, particularly around positions 6 and 12. This just highlights how much the NZRU have f'd up over the last four or so years, most notably not hiring a coach that knows how to get the best out of his players and even more importantly someone that knows how to grow depth across the board.
The biggest disappointment is how inconsistent and meh the ABs have become since the mighty heights of 2015. I know we had a rock star team full of AB greats back then, but how the hell did we get to this point only 8 years later where we literally have no depth in key positions. We have no quality depth at 12, we've still got an unbalanced loose trio, our locks are dinosaurs, we have an uninspiring captain, and despite the odd promising performance, the ABs have lost their ruthlessness.
I hope we can pull something out of the bag this weekend to get some confidence for the rest of the tournament because it could be a hard watch and a pretty swift exit if we don't get shit right fast.
And no, Akira Ioane is not and never will be our answer to 6.
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There's quite a lot of panic happening across a few threads, particularly around positions 6 and 12. This just highlights how much the NZRU have f'd up over the last four or so years, most notably not hiring a coach that knows how to get the best out of his players and even more importantly someone that knows how to grow depth across the board.
The biggest disappointment is how inconsistent and meh the ABs have become since the mighty heights of 2015. I know we had a rock star team full of AB greats back then, but how the hell did we get to this point only 8 years later where we literally have no depth in key positions. We have no quality depth at 12, we've still got an unbalanced loose trio, our locks are dinosaurs, we have an uninspiring captain, and despite the odd promising performance, the ABs have lost their ruthlessness.
I hope we can pull something out of the bag this weekend to get some confidence for the rest of the tournament because it could be a hard watch and a pretty swift exit if we don't get shit right fast.
And no, Akira Ioane is not and never will be our answer to 6.
@Canes4life I wouldnt say I am panicked, I would say more resigned to our fate, the last 4 years have been a tough ride, and expectations are low, a quarter final exit is definitely on the cards and I wont be too surprised, that being said, I dont think we are very far off making the final either, and if we get there, it's all on.
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There's quite a lot of panic happening across a few threads, particularly around positions 6 and 12. This just highlights how much the NZRU have f'd up over the last four or so years, most notably not hiring a coach that knows how to get the best out of his players and even more importantly someone that knows how to grow depth across the board.
The biggest disappointment is how inconsistent and meh the ABs have become since the mighty heights of 2015. I know we had a rock star team full of AB greats back then, but how the hell did we get to this point only 8 years later where we literally have no depth in key positions. We have no quality depth at 12, we've still got an unbalanced loose trio, our locks are dinosaurs, we have an uninspiring captain, and despite the odd promising performance, the ABs have lost their ruthlessness.
I hope we can pull something out of the bag this weekend to get some confidence for the rest of the tournament because it could be a hard watch and a pretty swift exit if we don't get shit right fast.
And no, Akira Ioane is not and never will be our answer to 6.
@Canes4life said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
And no, Akira Ioane is not and never will be our answer to 6.
He should have been with proper coaching and mentoring at professional level - looking at Hansen and the toxic Blues board down when he started
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@Canes4life said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
And no, Akira Ioane is not and never will be our answer to 6.
He should have been with proper coaching and mentoring at professional level - looking at Hansen and the toxic Blues board down when he started
@nzzp maybe so but you can't teach the toughness that made the likes of Collins and Kaino great. Unfortunately, Ioane doesn't have that steel about him which is something that has held him back from getting to that next level. He's had his chance IMO, there are players coming through post WC that I'd rather us focus on.
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@nzzp maybe so but you can't teach the toughness that made the likes of Collins and Kaino great. Unfortunately, Ioane doesn't have that steel about him which is something that has held him back from getting to that next level. He's had his chance IMO, there are players coming through post WC that I'd rather us focus on.
@Canes4life Kaino took time to turn into the player he was. Was loose and fast early, and the all Black's dropped him.
Kaino's early efforts for the Blues were sensational, bit no support.
Anyway, this is peak thread derailment
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Our great hope is the one and only Shannon Frizell - one good game on our home ground against a shell-shocked Bok side after repeated failures in black for years.
Now we are about to select another openside at 6 because our backup guy Jacobsen) isn't good enough and the guy that would have been a perfect replacement (Finau) wasn't picked in favor having of 5 wingers.
Saying all that - expectations are so now low that we could beat the Frogs on the weekend.
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Our great hope is the one and only Shannon Frizell - one good game on our home ground against a shell-shocked Bok side after repeated failures in black for years.
Now we are about to select another openside at 6 because our backup guy Jacobsen) isn't good enough and the guy that would have been a perfect replacement (Finau) wasn't picked in favor having of 5 wingers.
Saying all that - expectations are so now low that we could beat the Frogs on the weekend.
@Frank said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
Our great hope is the one and only Shannon Frizell - one good game on our home ground against a shell-shocked Bok side after repeated failures in black for years.
Now we are about to select another openside at 6 because our backup guy Jacobsen) isn't good enough and the guy that would have been a perfect replacement (Finau) wasn't picked in favor having of 5 wingers.
Saying all that - expectations are so now low that we could beat the Frogs on the weekend.
After all the shit he got on the fern and after some folk favouring A Ioane over him it really is staggering how much hope now resides on his shoulders after ( as you put it ) one really good game ( and it was a goody )
New Zealand’s inability to effectively replace a Collins/Kaino type sure is baffling.
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Our great hope is the one and only Shannon Frizell - one good game on our home ground against a shell-shocked Bok side after repeated failures in black for years.
Now we are about to select another openside at 6 because our backup guy Jacobsen) isn't good enough and the guy that would have been a perfect replacement (Finau) wasn't picked in favor having of 5 wingers.
Saying all that - expectations are so now low that we could beat the Frogs on the weekend.
@Frank said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
Our great hope is the one and only Shannon Frizell - one good game on our home ground against a shell-shocked Bok side after repeated failures in black for years.
Now we are about to select another openside at 6 because our backup guy Jacobsen) isn't good enough and the guy that would have been a perfect replacement (Finau) wasn't picked in favor having of 5 wingers.
Saying all that - expectations are so now low that we could beat the Frogs on the weekend.
To be fair you can add Joburg last year and the Argies this.
