The Current State of Rugby
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@mariner4life said in The Current State of Rugby:
The outcome of all but the worst infringements was a free kick. Other team was wrong? fine you get the ball.
have said similar for ages, points because someone is a 0.5m offside or because you have a stronger scrum seems excessive
@Kiwiwomble said in The Current State of Rugby:
@mariner4life said in The Current State of Rugby:
The outcome of all but the worst infringements was a free kick. Other team was wrong? fine you get the ball.
have said similar for ages, points because someone is a 0.5m offside or because you have a stronger scrum seems excessive
Could be a case of careful what you wish for though... if we go towards this model, you would basically be taking props out the game, and would be going more towards an U85 style of game, because you'd need to be so fit, as there would be far fewer stoppages.
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@Kiwiwomble said in The Current State of Rugby:
@mariner4life said in The Current State of Rugby:
The outcome of all but the worst infringements was a free kick. Other team was wrong? fine you get the ball.
have said similar for ages, points because someone is a 0.5m offside or because you have a stronger scrum seems excessive
Could be a case of careful what you wish for though... if we go towards this model, you would basically be taking props out the game, and would be going more towards an U85 style of game, because you'd need to be so fit, as there would be far fewer stoppages.
@frugby not that I expect that would happen, but that is kinda what needs to happen, speed the game up to see fitter smaller players, would lessen some of the collisions between the big bodies.
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@frugby not that I expect that would happen, but that is kinda what needs to happen, speed the game up to see fitter smaller players, would lessen some of the collisions between the big bodies.
@taniwharugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
@frugby not that I expect that would happen, but that is kinda what needs to happen, speed the game up to see fitter smaller players, would lessen some of the collisions between the big bodies.
Everything is a trade-off I suppose. It would be a drastic alteration... and of course this won't ever happen, so in many ways it doesn't matter.
Fun to entertain though, even if I think taking the major advantage of a dominant scrum out the game, would be really silly.
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@taniwharugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
@frugby not that I expect that would happen, but that is kinda what needs to happen, speed the game up to see fitter smaller players, would lessen some of the collisions between the big bodies.
Everything is a trade-off I suppose. It would be a drastic alteration... and of course this won't ever happen, so in many ways it doesn't matter.
Fun to entertain though, even if I think taking the major advantage of a dominant scrum out the game, would be really silly.
@frugby but is having a dominant scrum something you should reward with penalties?
Penalising a team for not being as good kinda defeats the purpose of the game, especially when quite often scrum penalties are a bit of a lottery, even some of the ones awarded to a dominant scrum arent correct.
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@taniwharugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
@frugby not that I expect that would happen, but that is kinda what needs to happen, speed the game up to see fitter smaller players, would lessen some of the collisions between the big bodies.
Everything is a trade-off I suppose. It would be a drastic alteration... and of course this won't ever happen, so in many ways it doesn't matter.
Fun to entertain though, even if I think taking the major advantage of a dominant scrum out the game, would be really silly.
@frugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
Fun to entertain though, even if I think taking the major advantage of a dominant scrum out the game, would be really silly.
scrums are supposed to be a restart, not a way of accumulating points. If you haver a dominant scrum you are going to get a constant supply of ball. As you should.
And if you stick a bunch of 95kg props in against South Africa, no matter who knocks on, they are getting the ball.
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@frugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
Fun to entertain though, even if I think taking the major advantage of a dominant scrum out the game, would be really silly.
scrums are supposed to be a restart, not a way of accumulating points. If you haver a dominant scrum you are going to get a constant supply of ball. As you should.
And if you stick a bunch of 95kg props in against South Africa, no matter who knocks on, they are getting the ball.
@mariner4life said in The Current State of Rugby:
@frugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
Fun to entertain though, even if I think taking the major advantage of a dominant scrum out the game, would be really silly.
scrums are supposed to be a restart, not a way of accumulating points. If you haver a dominant scrum you are going to get a constant supply of ball. As you should.
And if you stick a bunch of 95kg props in against South Africa, no matter who knocks on, they are getting the ball.
So rugby league scrums? Which is fine, but this sort of feels like rugby league, but with rucks and no tackle count. I like that in union there are several ways to skin a cat. Some teams strength lies in the tight five... Uruguay for instance, very good at set piece this morning, and it helped them compete with France who would otherwise destroy them.
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@frugby but is having a dominant scrum something you should reward with penalties?
Penalising a team for not being as good kinda defeats the purpose of the game, especially when quite often scrum penalties are a bit of a lottery, even some of the ones awarded to a dominant scrum arent correct.
@taniwharugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
@frugby but is having a dominant scrum something you should reward with penalties?
Penalising a team for not being as good kinda defeats the purpose of the game, especially when quite often scrum penalties are a bit of a lottery, even some of the ones awarded to a dominant scrum arent correct.
Depends though. At the end of the day, what is the difference between a player standing up in the scrum, because the opposite prop applies too much pressure, and a player is caught offside/failing to roll, because the other teams cleanouts are so good it gives them great ball speed. It is basically the same concept?
I think at times, the ref should tell the halfback to use it. The second shunt penalty is a nonsense imo.
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@mariner4life said in The Current State of Rugby:
@frugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
Fun to entertain though, even if I think taking the major advantage of a dominant scrum out the game, would be really silly.
scrums are supposed to be a restart, not a way of accumulating points. If you haver a dominant scrum you are going to get a constant supply of ball. As you should.
And if you stick a bunch of 95kg props in against South Africa, no matter who knocks on, they are getting the ball.
So rugby league scrums? Which is fine, but this sort of feels like rugby league, but with rucks and no tackle count. I like that in union there are several ways to skin a cat. Some teams strength lies in the tight five... Uruguay for instance, very good at set piece this morning, and it helped them compete with France who would otherwise destroy them.
@frugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
@mariner4life said in The Current State of Rugby:
@frugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
Fun to entertain though, even if I think taking the major advantage of a dominant scrum out the game, would be really silly.
scrums are supposed to be a restart, not a way of accumulating points. If you haver a dominant scrum you are going to get a constant supply of ball. As you should.
And if you stick a bunch of 95kg props in against South Africa, no matter who knocks on, they are getting the ball.
So rugby league scrums? Which is fine, but this sort of feels like rugby league, but with rucks and no tackle count. I like that in union there are several ways to skin a cat. Some teams strength lies in the tight five... Uruguay for instance, very good at set piece this morning, and it helped them compete with France who would otherwise destroy them.
aye? rugby league scrums? when 120kg SA props are rolling over their 95kg opposites and getting the ball? when has that ever been in league? Use a bit of lateral thought
And there really isn't many ways to skin a cat in modern rugby. That's a dated concept.
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@taniwharugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
@frugby but is having a dominant scrum something you should reward with penalties?
Penalising a team for not being as good kinda defeats the purpose of the game, especially when quite often scrum penalties are a bit of a lottery, even some of the ones awarded to a dominant scrum arent correct.
Depends though. At the end of the day, what is the difference between a player standing up in the scrum, because the opposite prop applies too much pressure, and a player is caught offside/failing to roll, because the other teams cleanouts are so good it gives them great ball speed. It is basically the same concept?
I think at times, the ref should tell the halfback to use it. The second shunt penalty is a nonsense imo.
@frugby one is a dynamic situation of unequal circumstances, players, speed etc, so alot more going on.
A scrum, as @mariner4life says, is a restart, both equal and set, one foot slips and penalised, you get your timing wrong, and penalised, you get it right, opposition guy times his engage slightly late but you get pinged for going down...and then soemtimes they are simply reset
Agree on part 2, which is something that the Canadian ref in the Northland v HB game did well, they had a dominant, but super dominant scrum, she called them to play it when they were playing for the 2nd shove and penalty quite often, kept the game flowing instead of endless pens or resets
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@Kiwiwomble said in The Current State of Rugby:
i think WR/NZR etc should be investing in some good marketing to try and teach people to chill out and accept there will be mistakes but the law of averages says they'll go both ways over time, sure there will always be those that try and make a big deal about reffing stuff ups....but if the majority of people pay them no more attention than a bit of side eye...and just move on
lol yeah do you know many ABs fans?
@NTA said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Kiwiwomble said in The Current State of Rugby:
lol yeah do you know many ABs fans?easier to find than many Wallaby fans..
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VAR/TMO/3rd Umpire was brought in to stop fans whinging about how they were robbed. And absolutely nothing changed. In any sport it was introduced to.
Fans (and losing coaches) will always blame the ref. And will always find evidence to support their team being dudded. Sport is human endeavor, and human endeavor comes with errors. From players and officials.@mariner4life said in The Current State of Rugby:
Fans (and losing coaches) will always blame the ref.
At least on TSF posters are more generous and also blame (other)TSF posters as well.
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@mariner4life said in The Current State of Rugby:
Fans (and losing coaches) will always blame the ref.
At least on TSF posters are more generous and also blame (other)TSF posters as well.
@nostrildamus said in The Current State of Rugby:
@mariner4life said in The Current State of Rugby:
Fans (and losing coaches) will always blame the ref.
At least on TSF posters are more generous and also blame (other)TSF posters as well.
yeah damn you, you have cost me teams so often over the years
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@Kiwiwomble said in The Current State of Rugby:
@mariner4life said in The Current State of Rugby:
The outcome of all but the worst infringements was a free kick. Other team was wrong? fine you get the ball.
have said similar for ages, points because someone is a 0.5m offside or because you have a stronger scrum seems excessive
Could be a case of careful what you wish for though... if we go towards this model, you would basically be taking props out the game, and would be going more towards an U85 style of game, because you'd need to be so fit, as there would be far fewer stoppages.
@frugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Kiwiwomble said in The Current State of Rugby:
@mariner4life said in The Current State of Rugby:
The outcome of all but the worst infringements was a free kick. Other team was wrong? fine you get the ball.
have said similar for ages, points because someone is a 0.5m offside or because you have a stronger scrum seems excessive
Could be a case of careful what you wish for though... if we go towards this model, you would basically be taking props out the game, and would be going more towards an U85 style of game, because you'd need to be so fit, as there would be far fewer stoppages.
not sure i agree, still want that dominant scrum to launch off of or go for tightheads and the free kick (so a free 10m) or clearing kick still on the table
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@taniwharugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
@frugby but is having a dominant scrum something you should reward with penalties?
Penalising a team for not being as good kinda defeats the purpose of the game, especially when quite often scrum penalties are a bit of a lottery, even some of the ones awarded to a dominant scrum arent correct.
Depends though. At the end of the day, what is the difference between a player standing up in the scrum, because the opposite prop applies too much pressure, and a player is caught offside/failing to roll, because the other teams cleanouts are so good it gives them great ball speed. It is basically the same concept?
I think at times, the ref should tell the halfback to use it. The second shunt penalty is a nonsense imo.
@frugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
@taniwharugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
@frugby but is having a dominant scrum something you should reward with penalties?
Penalising a team for not being as good kinda defeats the purpose of the game, especially when quite often scrum penalties are a bit of a lottery, even some of the ones awarded to a dominant scrum arent correct.
Depends though. At the end of the day, what is the difference between a player standing up in the scrum, because the opposite prop applies too much pressure, and a player is caught offside/failing to roll, because the other teams cleanouts are so good it gives them great ball speed. It is basically the same concept?
I think at times, the ref should tell the halfback to use it. The second shunt penalty is a nonsense imo.
thats another one, players deliberately pinning a tackler into a ruck and screaming for a penalty....if the ball is available who cares if hes offside....if its not then give the dominate ruck the ball and play on
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@frugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
@taniwharugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
@frugby but is having a dominant scrum something you should reward with penalties?
Penalising a team for not being as good kinda defeats the purpose of the game, especially when quite often scrum penalties are a bit of a lottery, even some of the ones awarded to a dominant scrum arent correct.
Depends though. At the end of the day, what is the difference between a player standing up in the scrum, because the opposite prop applies too much pressure, and a player is caught offside/failing to roll, because the other teams cleanouts are so good it gives them great ball speed. It is basically the same concept?
I think at times, the ref should tell the halfback to use it. The second shunt penalty is a nonsense imo.
thats another one, players deliberately pinning a tackler into a ruck and screaming for a penalty....if the ball is available who cares if hes offside....if its not then give the dominate ruck the ball and play on
@Kiwiwomble said in The Current State of Rugby:
@frugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
@taniwharugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
@frugby but is having a dominant scrum something you should reward with penalties?
Penalising a team for not being as good kinda defeats the purpose of the game, especially when quite often scrum penalties are a bit of a lottery, even some of the ones awarded to a dominant scrum arent correct.
Depends though. At the end of the day, what is the difference between a player standing up in the scrum, because the opposite prop applies too much pressure, and a player is caught offside/failing to roll, because the other teams cleanouts are so good it gives them great ball speed. It is basically the same concept?
I think at times, the ref should tell the halfback to use it. The second shunt penalty is a nonsense imo.
thats another one, players deliberately pinning a tackler into a ruck and screaming for a penalty....if the ball is available who cares if hes offside....if its not then give the dominate ruck the ball and play on
it would also allow you more freedom to choose the speed of the play.
Want to slow it down? Take a breather. Get everyone set. Hoist a bomb or something
Want to play fast? take the tap and go quickRight now a penalty takes the wind out of the game. All parties slowly disengage from the ruck. Quick committee meeting, then eventually a kick down field. Walk/jog to the lineout. Go through the theatre there.
Even if you want to go fast, you kick quickly, the other team puts a lock down in the middle of the lineout to tie a shoe or get treatment.It is incredibly difficult to put speed in to a game at the moment, as full penalties give ample time for gamesmanship. You aren't putting guys down for treatment if there are constant free kicks.
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@Kiwiwomble said in The Current State of Rugby:
@frugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
@taniwharugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
@frugby but is having a dominant scrum something you should reward with penalties?
Penalising a team for not being as good kinda defeats the purpose of the game, especially when quite often scrum penalties are a bit of a lottery, even some of the ones awarded to a dominant scrum arent correct.
Depends though. At the end of the day, what is the difference between a player standing up in the scrum, because the opposite prop applies too much pressure, and a player is caught offside/failing to roll, because the other teams cleanouts are so good it gives them great ball speed. It is basically the same concept?
I think at times, the ref should tell the halfback to use it. The second shunt penalty is a nonsense imo.
thats another one, players deliberately pinning a tackler into a ruck and screaming for a penalty....if the ball is available who cares if hes offside....if its not then give the dominate ruck the ball and play on
it would also allow you more freedom to choose the speed of the play.
Want to slow it down? Take a breather. Get everyone set. Hoist a bomb or something
Want to play fast? take the tap and go quickRight now a penalty takes the wind out of the game. All parties slowly disengage from the ruck. Quick committee meeting, then eventually a kick down field. Walk/jog to the lineout. Go through the theatre there.
Even if you want to go fast, you kick quickly, the other team puts a lock down in the middle of the lineout to tie a shoe or get treatment.It is incredibly difficult to put speed in to a game at the moment, as full penalties give ample time for gamesmanship. You aren't putting guys down for treatment if there are constant free kicks.
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@Kiwiwomble said in The Current State of Rugby:
@frugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
@taniwharugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
@frugby but is having a dominant scrum something you should reward with penalties?
Penalising a team for not being as good kinda defeats the purpose of the game, especially when quite often scrum penalties are a bit of a lottery, even some of the ones awarded to a dominant scrum arent correct.
Depends though. At the end of the day, what is the difference between a player standing up in the scrum, because the opposite prop applies too much pressure, and a player is caught offside/failing to roll, because the other teams cleanouts are so good it gives them great ball speed. It is basically the same concept?
I think at times, the ref should tell the halfback to use it. The second shunt penalty is a nonsense imo.
thats another one, players deliberately pinning a tackler into a ruck and screaming for a penalty....if the ball is available who cares if hes offside....if its not then give the dominate ruck the ball and play on
it would also allow you more freedom to choose the speed of the play.
Want to slow it down? Take a breather. Get everyone set. Hoist a bomb or something
Want to play fast? take the tap and go quickRight now a penalty takes the wind out of the game. All parties slowly disengage from the ruck. Quick committee meeting, then eventually a kick down field. Walk/jog to the lineout. Go through the theatre there.
Even if you want to go fast, you kick quickly, the other team puts a lock down in the middle of the lineout to tie a shoe or get treatment.It is incredibly difficult to put speed in to a game at the moment, as full penalties give ample time for gamesmanship. You aren't putting guys down for treatment if there are constant free kicks.
@mariner4life said in The Current State of Rugby:
You aren't putting guys down for treatment if there are constant free kicks.
no, because a quick tap and they'll blow through you and turn a 10m advantage into much more, free kick means eyes up, if im defending deep, do i come up incase my forwards dont retreat fast enough or do i stay back for a kick?
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Classic example was this morning's game. 25 scrums, 25 lineouts, 30 penalties made for an absolute snoozefest.
@frugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
Classic example was this morning's game. 25 scrums, 25 lineouts, 30 penalties made for an absolute snoozefest.
You must have been watching a different game from me
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@frugby not that I expect that would happen, but that is kinda what needs to happen, speed the game up to see fitter smaller players, would lessen some of the collisions between the big bodies.
@taniwharugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
@frugby not that I expect that would happen, but that is kinda what needs to happen, speed the game up to see fitter smaller players, would lessen some of the collisions between the big bodies.
You’ve just described 7s
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@frugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
Classic example was this morning's game. 25 scrums, 25 lineouts, 30 penalties made for an absolute snoozefest.
You must have been watching a different game from me
@MiketheSnow said in The Current State of Rugby:
@frugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
Classic example was this morning's game. 25 scrums, 25 lineouts, 30 penalties made for an absolute snoozefest.
You must have been watching a different game from me
It was cool to see Uruguay do well, and as I said, it is good that they were able to compete through set piece, but I wouldn't have described it as a great spectacle. Not necessarily anyone's fault, you are always going to get games like this from time to time.
