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Just read pretty much the whole thread, its interesting to watch a couple of things happen throughout:
- Almost everyone agrees that male advantage is not alleviated simply by reducing testosterone levels from the beginning of the thread.
- Most people at the beginning demonstrated a sense of ‘men in women’s sport is inevitable, the direction of travel is only one way as the trans lobby owns the debate.’
Over the last 3 years, as the number of cases increased, and people protested, the governing bodies of most sports have acknowledged that fairness is important and sought ways to restrict the women’s categories.
Long way to go, plenty of decisions to be made and those already made to be implemented, but i believe we’re heading in the right direction. There is still misinformation about when people like Neil DeGrasse Tyson state that Semenya is female etc but we’re getting there.
Gradually males are being rightly excluded from women’s sport, importantly, not from sport as a whole, just from a protected class of sport that they don’t qualify for.
The science is pretty much conclusive, retained advantage comes from way more than just higher testosterone levels. The likes of Hilton and Tucker are winning that debate.
The increasing outcome appears to be men’s, womens, and non binary / other categories. At first, this seems reasonable, but what it really means is that there are two men’s categories, so 2 thirds of prize money goes to men. This would reverse almost instantly if we split the prize money 50% women, 50% to be split between male and NB. I think that would be an interesting experiment.
Professional sport therefore is heading in the right direction. The amateur ranks though, there is still a long way to go. The likes of Park Run are increasingly seeing women’s records being taken by NB or trans identifying males.
We need to keep the pressure up, we need to keep arguing for fairness. IMO the genie is out of the bottle, scrutiny and light are the long term solutions but we need to move quickly to ensure a generation of girls and women don’t give up in the face of this onslaught on their sport.
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Keep up the pressure boys ... genie, bottle, light, scrutiny, onslaught
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I noticed through the thread you make some presumably sarcastic points, but yet to see you argue a position. Very happy to hear it.
I’m very comfortable arguing my position to continue to put pressure on sporting bodies to protect women’s sport from male people.
My guess is you won’t lay out a position or argue a case because it’s easier and you’re more comfortable writing this discussion off as transphobia. I would be really pleasantly surprised if you were willing to counter / make a case for something else.
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Pretense of Trans-Only Athletic Category Laid Bare — Assigned
A plan by World Aquatics to host segregated races for transgender swimmers has been scrapped after nobody signed up to compete.
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OK, so not technically transgender sport, or even really transgender debate, but I figure it's close enough
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So removing the hyperbole and accusatory language, this article basically seems to indicate that however many trans swimmers there are, they don’t only want to compete against each other. Fair enough.
So that takes us back to the central question of whether trans athletes should compete in their sex category or their gender category, ie ‘inclusion’ vs fairness. I have yet to hear a single argument about why inclusion at the expense of fairness is the right way to go.
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@Dodge said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
So removing the hyperbole and accusatory language, this article basically seems to indicate that however many trans swimmers there are, they don’t only want to compete against each other. Fair enough.
So that takes us back to the central question of whether trans athletes should compete in their sex category or their gender category, ie ‘inclusion’ vs fairness. I have yet to hear a single argument about why inclusion at the expense of fairness is the right way to go.
And you won’t because reasoned debate is shouted down as being transphobic.
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@Dodge said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
So removing the hyperbole and accusatory language, this article basically seems to indicate that however many trans swimmers there are, they don’t only want to compete against each other. Fair enough.
So that takes us back to the central question of whether trans athletes should compete in their sex category or their gender category, ie ‘inclusion’ vs fairness. I have yet to hear a single argument about why inclusion at the expense of fairness is the right way to go.
Of course no trans are wanting to compete in their own category because, as we're really only talking about MTF trans, they want to believe, and convince everybody else, that they ARE actually women, they're not about to sign up to category that confirms they're not.
Was a dumb idea from the start.
Simple answer: have women's sport or don't.
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Oh, FFS.
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@MiketheSnow said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
For 1-legged trannies
That's gold, Mike.
I'm going to pass it on to Mrs M's Uncle and his husband - they are ex BA and loathe this sort of shit
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@MiketheSnow said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
Oh, FFS.
For 1-legged trannies
Well, he’s definitely non binary then.
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@Catogrande said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
@MiketheSnow said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
Oh, FFS.
For 1-legged trannies
Well, he’s definitely non binary then.
Definitely fake. He hasn't got a leg to stand on.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
Oh, FFS.
You see, I don’t have an issue with this at all. I don’t care what people wear and if people want to wear something ‘non traditional’ it’s no skin off my nose. I do worry about one legged cabin crew though, seems like that would be a really tough job.
People can present however they want, wear whatever they want. I don’t see why anyone gives a shit about that. It’s the point at which we’re told we have to ‘believe’ these people really are the opposite sex and that we all have to accept them into any environment for that destination sex that I start to have an issue.
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But, but, but we've been told biological sex doesn't matter and men and woman are equal,,,
Men gatecrash women in tech conference ‘after lying about gender’
Organisers of Grace Hopper Celebration in Orlando said people lied by claiming to be non-binary in hope of gaining access to recruiters
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Men and women are equal but not the same. An event to encourage more women to work in tech is a good idea. Women basically self exclude from multiple sectors, for a variety of reasons - that exclusion means that tech are taking their recruits from only 50% of the population - that’s a waste of potential talent.
The problem here is that men felt the need to invade that space. The fact they used the concept of non binary as the way to do it highlights the flaws in the concept of self ID. Any system that relies on someone telling you what they qualify for and you’re not allowed to challenge or question is bound to be abused, and this is just one of the examples.
Transgender debate, in sport, in general
