RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland
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Seeing a lot of comments that suggest NZ are underrated, aren't as bad as everyone is making out etc... I'd love to see some of the reasoning behind that?
The All Blacks are a slightly better team than when they last played Ireland, thanks primarily to the additions of Tyrel Lomax and Jordie Barrett, but they've still flattered to deceive in the past two years.
Since losing that Ireland series, the All Blacks have played 19 games.
Of those 19 games, the only tough opposition they've faced has been South Africa (four times) and France (once). They won two of those matches against the Boks, one game in Auckland and one game at Ellis Park. They lost the other two, in Mbombela and on neutral turf at Twickenham. They lost to France.
The rest of the games they played were against bang average sides. They almost lost to a poor Japan side, who are a shadow of the team that did so well at the 2019 World Cup, and probably would have lost to Scotland if the weight of history hadn't been such a massive chip on the Scots' shoulders.
They drew with England despite having a massive lead and also suffered a historic loss against Argentina in NZ. Argentina are only going through to the quarter-finals of the WC thanks to being in the easiest group and would not have progressed had they been placed in Pools A or B. Throw in the wins against arguably the worst Wallabies and Wales teams of all time, and there's not a whole lot to crow about.
This team is very average and at the moment it feels like people are saying the All Blacks are underrated purely based on irrelevant history. I'd love to know what some posters here think is being overlooked?
@Mr-Fish said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
This team is very average and at the moment it feels like people are saying the All Blacks are underrated purely based on irrelevant history. I'd love to know what some posters here think is being overlooked?
Here's the thing though. Overall it's very average - but that's because it's a mix of sublime and appalling from game to the next.
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@Mr-Fish a lot to agree with in there.
On the flip side, sport is a funny thing, especially in one off games/events.
Nobody gave France a chance in 2007. Ireland were a shoe in for their QFs in 2007 and 2015 too, but ended up out of the competition.
Liverpool should never have been near to beating one of the all time great Milan teams in the champions league final in 2005.
Soderling should never have been able to beat Nadal in the French open semi.
Patriots should never have beaten the Rams in Superbowl.
Buster Douglas should never have beaten Tyson in Tokyo.
Sport, hey!
@stodders said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@Mr-Fish a lot to agree with in there.
On the flip side, sport is a funny thing, especially in one off games/events.
Nobody gave France a chance in 2007. Ireland were a shoe in for their QFs in 2007 and 2015 too, but ended up out of the competition.
...
Sport, hey!
I fully agree that sports throws out random results all the time - but all the evidence points in one direction and while a random result in entirely possible, that doesn't mean the All Blacks are being underrated!
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@Mr-Fish said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
This team is very average and at the moment it feels like people are saying the All Blacks are underrated purely based on irrelevant history. I'd love to know what some posters here think is being overlooked?
Here's the thing though. Overall it's very average - but that's because it's a mix of sublime and appalling from game to the next.
What sublime games have we seen from the All Blacks? I'd say they were good in parts against the Springboks in Auckland this year (but still let them back into the match in the second half) and then they've destroyed some tier-two (or borderline tier-two) sides. But against decent to strong opposition they've been found wanting.
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I think we are saying the same thing. Brilliant one moment, rat-shit the next
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Dipolar?
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@stodders said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@Mr-Fish a lot to agree with in there.
On the flip side, sport is a funny thing, especially in one off games/events.
Nobody gave France a chance in 2007. Ireland were a shoe in for their QFs in 2007 and 2015 too, but ended up out of the competition.
...
Sport, hey!
I fully agree that sports throws out random results all the time - but all the evidence points in one direction and while a random result in entirely possible, that doesn't mean the All Blacks are being underrated!
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@Mr-Fish said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
This team is very average and at the moment it feels like people are saying the All Blacks are underrated purely based on irrelevant history. I'd love to know what some posters here think is being overlooked?
Here's the thing though. Overall it's very average - but that's because it's a mix of sublime and appalling from game to the next.
What sublime games have we seen from the All Blacks? I'd say they were good in parts against the Springboks in Auckland this year (but still let them back into the match in the second half) and then they've destroyed some tier-two (or borderline tier-two) sides. But against decent to strong opposition they've been found wanting.
@Mr-Fish Nobody has put 35 points on the Boks this year. Nobody has put 35 points on the Boks at home at Ellis Park in a long time. There is the sublime.
The Boks have never beaten the ABs by a bigger margin than 35-7 at Twickenham (red card mitigation accepted). There is the ridiculous.
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4 things to consider:
- Ireland have never got past qtr final stage
- only 2 teams have ever recorded 18 wins in a row in the history of rugby.
- Ireland have never beaten NZ at a World Cup before
- Their former coach is now an AB coach plotting against them.
1 of those things would be tough for the Irish to overcome but 4 of them?
Surely the rugby gods will not let them overcome all 4?
Quite simply Nz have nothing to lose and will be written off by pretty much everyone.
I get the sense that this AB outfit will be a desperate side on Saturday and will turn up with a performance to blitz Ireland as we did against SA.
As far as I can see (hope!) we took the RC seriously then entered a long S&C programme to get ourselves in the best shape possible for the qtr finals (look at tamati Williams as proof of this) so we can play the high octane rugby and gameplan that we have seen glimpses of this year.
We all know Ireland are a highly cohesive side and have well established patterns - if we play like Scotland, then we will be easily contained by their defensive aystem but I think we are a far more dynamic side and will test them more than they have been tested for some time.
There is no doubt that Schmidt will be working overtime to undo them with some changes to our attack and bring something they haven’t seen from us.
If not and we lose, then fuck off Foz and hello razor!
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This game is doing my head in ,
All the logic points to Ireland, but blind faith keeps me hanging in there with some belief.
What’s the scenario with their injuries ? allegedly 3 or 4 to wingers .
Looks like they didn’t select enough .
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This game is doing my head in ,
All the logic points to Ireland, but blind faith keeps me hanging in there with some belief.
What’s the scenario with their injuries ? allegedly 3 or 4 to wingers .
Looks like they didn’t select enough .
Here you go
None ruled out at this stage but Ryan and Hansen probably look the least likely
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Come on New Zealand. If SA can get past the French, would love to see an all SH final
@rustycruiser said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
Come on New Zealand. If SA can get past the French, would love to see an all SH final
And another of the OG returns
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Here you go
None ruled out at this stage but Ryan and Hansen probably look the least likely
@DaGrubster said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
Here you go
None ruled out at this stage but Ryan and Hansen probably look the least likely
They can get the fuck out with this shit. Getting their excuses in early, trying to steal our underdog status.
We’ve sacrificed a great deal for the underdog tag, be damned if they’re taking it off us now.
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I don't want the ABs to be desperate. That is when Foster's ABs are at their bumbling worst.
Ok, not desperate then. Highly motivated to prove that they are a better side after being written off all week.
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Ok, not desperate then. Highly motivated to prove that they are a better side after being written off all week.
@DaGrubster said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
Ok, not desperate then. Highly motivated to prove that they are a better side after being written off all week.
If they can't get up for this one... How many times have we said this about the Fozz blacks only to see them falter? I dare them to prove us wrong
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@DaGrubster said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
Ok, not desperate then. Highly motivated to prove that they are a better side after being written off all week.
If they can't get up for this one... How many times have we said this about the Fozz blacks only to see them falter? I dare them to prove us wrong
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Had thier backs to the wall last year when Foz had his head on the block, everyone had us getting smoked v SA this year after they sent a b side to dispose of Aus...not many giving them a shot this weekend too
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@booboo said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
Some random thoughts...
2. The ABs are not as bad and so many people are making out.Yup, that was random!
@nostrildamus said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@booboo said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
Some random thoughts...
2. The ABs are not as bad and so many people are making out.Yup, that was random!
Yeah, hate typos from typing on the phone late at night.
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Ok, not desperate then. Highly motivated to prove that they are a better side after being written off all week.
@DaGrubster said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
Ok, not desperate then. Highly motivated to prove that they are a better side after being written off all week.
Yeah be nice for them to be motivated to win for a change when they usually don't give a shit eh
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We can talk about Foz getting them up for this, but if they come out flat that’s a massive indictment on the senior players. This may not be the 2015 crop talent-wise, but there’s a shit-ton of experience in this side. No excuses.
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@Billy-Tell I'm putting money on there being one yellow at least. Remember the test after Soldier Field.
Thinking back to the Irish series:
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ABs cleaned up in test 1 after Ireland started fast.
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AB indiscipline was horrendous in the first half of test 2 with 2 yellow cards and a red for Ta'avao. It was 10-7 at half time. Playing a full 40 mins at this level a man down is not easy. Was similar in some ways to what happened in the second Lions test when SBW got his red (albeit ABs in Lions test 2 were more impressive playing off 9) and from then on the Irish had momentum.
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Test 3 was closer than many remember. This after Ireland led 22-3 at half time. ABs brought it back to 25-22 whilst Porter had his yellow card and had all the momentum. Porter got away with what would now be a clear red. It isn't that much of a stretch to say that if was a red the ABs would probably have prevailed.
Since the test series, Ireland have grown as a team, have a settled coaching team and have an offensive patterns and defensive solidity that are to be admired. The ABs have sacked their assistants and have been trying to find their playing identity, especially up front.
This weekend promises to be a clash of styles in some ways, but in one it will be the same. The forwards will determine who will win, with the backs deciding by how much
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Most important decision of the week...who do you want from this list for the game?
Cronan, Foley, Jonker or Whitehouse.
Does the TMO normally get picked in line with the ref's nationality?
So, if Cronan is picked, does that mean the ref is likely to be Gardner?
If Foley, does that mean Wayne Barnes or Luke Pearce?
If Jonker, does that mean Jaco Peyper?
Ben Whitehouse doesn't have any Welsh mates, so it will probably be Nika Amushakeli as ref.
