Blues 2024
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@Steven-Harris said in Blues 2024:
@frugby yes you are correct ,he turned down the Highlanders knowing if he stayed at the Blues he could help his club mid northern win back to back titles but like so many other players who have gone to the Blues , got very little game time in most cases they gone on to carve out good careers at other franchises
Could write a book on that one but there’s always a common theme
Spoke to Sam Nock’s dad Peter a couple of seasons back ,talk Sam into going to the Crusaders , that was when Bryn Hall was heading overseas , unfortunately he’s got a lot of close mates in the Blues , the Ioane Brothers , Kurt Eklund and Hoskins Sotutu ..
Needs a new group of friends in my opinion which was what I said to his dad , I hear you was Peter’s responseIf you look at what that move did for Bryn Hall you can only wonder what a move for Sam Nock may have done , hells teeth even Jaimeson Gibson Park
Imagine if he went to the Saders .For sure. It is always easy from the outside looking in, but the ultimate goal for all these guys I would think is to play for the All Blacks, and I struggle to understand why they wouldn't move heaven and earth to make it happen.
AJ Lam is a classic example of this. Immensely talented player, but has been stuck behind Telea and Clarke, which will likely continue. Hard to make the ABs as an outside back if you aren't consistently playing.
@frugby
AJ Lam was in negotiations with a possible move to Northland for the NPC 2024 but was making Northland wait to see if he could get a Blues extension past next year , needless to say Northland said thanks but no thanks.
Be interesting to compile a number of players that were in the Blues player roster who left and advanced their careers
Waisake Naholo always sticks in my mind , be interesting to see how Jacob Ratuvaimuki Kneepkins goes at the highlanders , looked bloody good in the 15 jersey for Naki -
@frugby
AJ Lam was in negotiations with a possible move to Northland for the NPC 2024 but was making Northland wait to see if he could get a Blues extension past next year , needless to say Northland said thanks but no thanks.
Be interesting to compile a number of players that were in the Blues player roster who left and advanced their careers
Waisake Naholo always sticks in my mind , be interesting to see how Jacob Ratuvaimuki Kneepkins goes at the highlanders , looked bloody good in the 15 jersey for Naki@Steven-Harris said in Blues 2024:
Waisake Naholo always sticks in my mind
and Aaron Smith
Sometimes the shift is what makes them though - the kick up the butt and risk of genuine failure. I think Naholo said he showed up drunk to training once in the WTG for Blues? In any case, moving to a different environment can make a big difference
Edit: happens moderately frequently - Brodie to the Chiefs from Canterbury is a classic.
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@frugby
AJ Lam was in negotiations with a possible move to Northland for the NPC 2024 but was making Northland wait to see if he could get a Blues extension past next year , needless to say Northland said thanks but no thanks.
Be interesting to compile a number of players that were in the Blues player roster who left and advanced their careers
Waisake Naholo always sticks in my mind , be interesting to see how Jacob Ratuvaimuki Kneepkins goes at the highlanders , looked bloody good in the 15 jersey for Naki@Steven-Harris said in Blues 2024:
@frugby
AJ Lam was in negotiations with a possible move to Northland for the NPC 2024 but was making Northland wait to see if he could get a Blues extension past next year , needless to say Northland said thanks but no thanks.
Be first be interesting to compile a number of players that were in the Blues player roster who left and advanced their careers
Waisake Naholo always sticks in my mind , be interesting to see how Jacob Ratuvaimuki Kneepkins goes at the highlanders , looked bloody good in the 15 jersey for NakiHere is what I got:
- Tim Perry
- Greg Pleasants-Tate (Weak entry)
- Angus Ta'avao
- Bryn Evans
- Scott Scarfton
- Dan Pryor
- Sione Havili Talitui
- Joe Edwards (Weak entry)
- Jamison Gibson-Park
- Bryn Gatland
- Rico Gear
- Levi Aumua
- Malakai Fekitoa
- Waisake Naholo
- Emoni Narawa
The thing to remember, is when did players leave and why. A lot of these players left because of a lack of opportunity at a time the Blues weren't doing very well. Could the Blues have got more out of Emoni Narawa? Obviously, but this time last year Telea and Clarke were rated the #2 and #3 wings in the country behind Will Jordan, so they weren't short of talent.
At the time Malakai Fekitoa couldn't get a run, Jackson Willison was starting games in a side who won just 6/16.
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@Steven-Harris said in Blues 2024:
@frugby
AJ Lam was in negotiations with a possible move to Northland for the NPC 2024 but was making Northland wait to see if he could get a Blues extension past next year , needless to say Northland said thanks but no thanks.
Be first be interesting to compile a number of players that were in the Blues player roster who left and advanced their careers
Waisake Naholo always sticks in my mind , be interesting to see how Jacob Ratuvaimuki Kneepkins goes at the highlanders , looked bloody good in the 15 jersey for NakiHere is what I got:
- Tim Perry
- Greg Pleasants-Tate (Weak entry)
- Angus Ta'avao
- Bryn Evans
- Scott Scarfton
- Dan Pryor
- Sione Havili Talitui
- Joe Edwards (Weak entry)
- Jamison Gibson-Park
- Bryn Gatland
- Rico Gear
- Levi Aumua
- Malakai Fekitoa
- Waisake Naholo
- Emoni Narawa
The thing to remember, is when did players leave and why. A lot of these players left because of a lack of opportunity at a time the Blues weren't doing very well. Could the Blues have got more out of Emoni Narawa? Obviously, but this time last year Telea and Clarke were rated the #2 and #3 wings in the country behind Will Jordan, so they weren't short of talent.
At the time Malakai Fekitoa couldn't get a run, Jackson Willison was starting games in a side who won just 6/16.
@frugby there’s a theme if you join the dots together
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@Steven-Harris said in Blues 2024:
@frugby
AJ Lam was in negotiations with a possible move to Northland for the NPC 2024 but was making Northland wait to see if he could get a Blues extension past next year , needless to say Northland said thanks but no thanks.
Be first be interesting to compile a number of players that were in the Blues player roster who left and advanced their careers
Waisake Naholo always sticks in my mind , be interesting to see how Jacob Ratuvaimuki Kneepkins goes at the highlanders , looked bloody good in the 15 jersey for NakiHere is what I got:
- Tim Perry
- Greg Pleasants-Tate (Weak entry)
- Angus Ta'avao
- Bryn Evans
- Scott Scarfton
- Dan Pryor
- Sione Havili Talitui
- Joe Edwards (Weak entry)
- Jamison Gibson-Park
- Bryn Gatland
- Rico Gear
- Levi Aumua
- Malakai Fekitoa
- Waisake Naholo
- Emoni Narawa
The thing to remember, is when did players leave and why. A lot of these players left because of a lack of opportunity at a time the Blues weren't doing very well. Could the Blues have got more out of Emoni Narawa? Obviously, but this time last year Telea and Clarke were rated the #2 and #3 wings in the country behind Will Jordan, so they weren't short of talent.
At the time Malakai Fekitoa couldn't get a run, Jackson Willison was starting games in a side who won just 6/16.
@frugby
Siua Halanukonuka was easily the best scrummaging tighthead in Auckland club rugby back 2012 , everyone in Auckland could see his ability bar the Auckland coaches ended up playing at Counties Manukau and the Highlanders for 2 seasonsAlso Taleni Seu , easily the best lineout forward in Auckland club rugby bar none , looked at home at NPC level playing for Auckland but was only ever offered a wider training squad contract at the Blues , Dave Rennie jumped on the opportunity to get him to the Chiefs straight away
I have no doubt there are players who have got to bide their time but to me this is where having a real ability to identify and see pictures where a player has a possible skill set that makes your team better comes into play .
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Man, Steven. I get you hate Auckland rugby, but give it a rest. Some coaches disagreed on selections and picked other players. We have the largest player pool to pick from and the same sized squad, there will always be people that miss out.
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I don't think there are too many people about, with thier finger on the pulse of Auckland club scene more than Steven, so would have a pretty good insight into it, and given he 'hates" Auckland so much he spends every weekend out and about in Auckland rugby.
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@frugby
Siua Halanukonuka was easily the best scrummaging tighthead in Auckland club rugby back 2012 , everyone in Auckland could see his ability bar the Auckland coaches ended up playing at Counties Manukau and the Highlanders for 2 seasonsAlso Taleni Seu , easily the best lineout forward in Auckland club rugby bar none , looked at home at NPC level playing for Auckland but was only ever offered a wider training squad contract at the Blues , Dave Rennie jumped on the opportunity to get him to the Chiefs straight away
I have no doubt there are players who have got to bide their time but to me this is where having a real ability to identify and see pictures where a player has a possible skill set that makes your team better comes into play .
@Steven-Harris move on mate most those players have, U looking the wrong direction continually run down players that aren't involved with Rovers and Coaches first year gone ok
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@Steven-Harris said in Blues 2024:
@frugby
AJ Lam was in negotiations with a possible move to Northland for the NPC 2024 but was making Northland wait to see if he could get a Blues extension past next year , needless to say Northland said thanks but no thanks.
Be first be interesting to compile a number of players that were in the Blues player roster who left and advanced their careers
Waisake Naholo always sticks in my mind , be interesting to see how Jacob Ratuvaimuki Kneepkins goes at the highlanders , looked bloody good in the 15 jersey for NakiHere is what I got:
- Tim Perry
- Greg Pleasants-Tate (Weak entry)
- Angus Ta'avao
- Bryn Evans
- Scott Scarfton
- Dan Pryor
- Sione Havili Talitui
- Joe Edwards (Weak entry)
- Jamison Gibson-Park
- Bryn Gatland
- Rico Gear
- Levi Aumua
- Malakai Fekitoa
- Waisake Naholo
- Emoni Narawa
The thing to remember, is when did players leave and why. A lot of these players left because of a lack of opportunity at a time the Blues weren't doing very well. Could the Blues have got more out of Emoni Narawa? Obviously, but this time last year Telea and Clarke were rated the #2 and #3 wings in the country behind Will Jordan, so they weren't short of talent.
At the time Malakai Fekitoa couldn't get a run, Jackson Willison was starting games in a side who won just 6/16.
@frugby Tim Perry - Journeyman. Barely got a go at the Crusaders either.
GPT - The less said the better
Angus Ta'avao - Tu'ungafasi, Faumuina, Laulala all better options. Probably on par with Sione Mafileo.
Bryn Evans - Behind Ali Williams and Athony Boric.
Scott Scrafton - Journeyman who barely started for the Canes in a position they are always weak in.
Dan Pryor - Journeyman who was behind Kaino and Luatua for the 6 jersey, and about on par with Brendan O'Connor at the time. No loss.
Sione Havili - We had Blake Gibson at the time (who was fit) and Dalton Papali'i and now have Anton Segner and Adrian Choat fighting for the 7 shirt.
Joe Edwards - Great guy but yeah, no need to go too far into detail there.
JGP - Yeah, he's gone on to bigger and better things, but he had 3 seasons here with mixed success, featured for one season behind Perenara at the Canes then left. No one else seemed keen on taking a punt on him here so t the time, no loss.
Bryn Gatland - He's had about the same success away from the Blues as he had while playing at the Blues. Solid journeyman, nothing more.
Rico Gear - Great player but was stuck behind Howlett, Muliaina, Rokocoko and Caucaunibuca in 2003, got plenty of opportunity in 2004 and played very well before going to the Crusaders. Don't see what more the Blues could have done there, he wanted to go. It is what it is.
Levi Aumua - Didn't get much of an opportunity here and nor did the Blues need him. Again, no one else wanted a bar of him either apart from Moana Pasifika where he shone on attack where the game plan was to get him the ball as much as possible. Defence still a worry, which the Blues coaches weren't impressed with either. Again, hardly a loss.
Fekitoa - Yeah, we missed out there, but at the same time, Ranger and Francis Saili were our best players in 2013 where both got ABs callups, and Fekitoa admitted himself that he got lazy and started missing trainings etc. but yes, we missed the boat there as Ranger left and Saili proved to be a 1 year wonder.
Waisake Naholo - Yeah another one that slipped through. At the same time, Frank Halai had a good season in 2013 where he also managed to get an ABs callup, and George Moala was one of our best players in what was a lean period for the Blues. Probably written off a bit too early as Halai's form also fell off a cliff after 2013, but hey, it happens.
Emoni Narawa - We have enough quality outside backs. Good on him for moving on and doing well for himself. No use him staying at the Blues behind a whole heap of outside backs.So out of that list, probably 2 we could have gotten more out of. The rest, meh.
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@frugby Tim Perry - Journeyman. Barely got a go at the Crusaders either.
GPT - The less said the better
Angus Ta'avao - Tu'ungafasi, Faumuina, Laulala all better options. Probably on par with Sione Mafileo.
Bryn Evans - Behind Ali Williams and Athony Boric.
Scott Scrafton - Journeyman who barely started for the Canes in a position they are always weak in.
Dan Pryor - Journeyman who was behind Kaino and Luatua for the 6 jersey, and about on par with Brendan O'Connor at the time. No loss.
Sione Havili - We had Blake Gibson at the time (who was fit) and Dalton Papali'i and now have Anton Segner and Adrian Choat fighting for the 7 shirt.
Joe Edwards - Great guy but yeah, no need to go too far into detail there.
JGP - Yeah, he's gone on to bigger and better things, but he had 3 seasons here with mixed success, featured for one season behind Perenara at the Canes then left. No one else seemed keen on taking a punt on him here so t the time, no loss.
Bryn Gatland - He's had about the same success away from the Blues as he had while playing at the Blues. Solid journeyman, nothing more.
Rico Gear - Great player but was stuck behind Howlett, Muliaina, Rokocoko and Caucaunibuca in 2003, got plenty of opportunity in 2004 and played very well before going to the Crusaders. Don't see what more the Blues could have done there, he wanted to go. It is what it is.
Levi Aumua - Didn't get much of an opportunity here and nor did the Blues need him. Again, no one else wanted a bar of him either apart from Moana Pasifika where he shone on attack where the game plan was to get him the ball as much as possible. Defence still a worry, which the Blues coaches weren't impressed with either. Again, hardly a loss.
Fekitoa - Yeah, we missed out there, but at the same time, Ranger and Francis Saili were our best players in 2013 where both got ABs callups, and Fekitoa admitted himself that he got lazy and started missing trainings etc. but yes, we missed the boat there as Ranger left and Saili proved to be a 1 year wonder.
Waisake Naholo - Yeah another one that slipped through. At the same time, Frank Halai had a good season in 2013 where he also managed to get an ABs callup, and George Moala was one of our best players in what was a lean period for the Blues. Probably written off a bit too early as Halai's form also fell off a cliff after 2013, but hey, it happens.
Emoni Narawa - We have enough quality outside backs. Good on him for moving on and doing well for himself. No use him staying at the Blues behind a whole heap of outside backs.So out of that list, probably 2 we could have gotten more out of. The rest, meh.
@African-Monkey said in Blues 2024:
@frugby Tim Perry - Journeyman. Barely got a go at the Crusaders either.
GPT - The less said the better
Angus Ta'avao - Tu'ungafasi, Faumuina, Laulala all better options. Probably on par with Sione Mafileo.
Bryn Evans - Behind Ali Williams and Athony Boric.
Scott Scrafton - Journeyman who barely started for the Canes in a position they are always weak in.
Dan Pryor - Journeyman who was behind Kaino and Luatua for the 6 jersey, and about on par with Brendan O'Connor at the time. No loss.
Sione Havili - We had Blake Gibson at the time (who was fit) and Dalton Papali'i and now have Anton Segner and Adrian Choat fighting for the 7 shirt.
Joe Edwards - Great guy but yeah, no need to go too far into detail there.
JGP - Yeah, he's gone on to bigger and better things, but he had 3 seasons here with mixed success, featured for one season behind Perenara at the Canes then left. No one else seemed keen on taking a punt on him here so t the time, no loss.
Bryn Gatland - He's had about the same success away from the Blues as he had while playing at the Blues. Solid journeyman, nothing more.
Rico Gear - Great player but was stuck behind Howlett, Muliaina, Rokocoko and Caucaunibuca in 2003, got plenty of opportunity in 2004 and played very well before going to the Crusaders. Don't see what more the Blues could have done there, he wanted to go. It is what it is.
Levi Aumua - Didn't get much of an opportunity here and nor did the Blues need him. Again, no one else wanted a bar of him either apart from Moana Pasifika where he shone on attack where the game plan was to get him the ball as much as possible. Defence still a worry, which the Blues coaches weren't impressed with either. Again, hardly a loss.
Fekitoa - Yeah, we missed out there, but at the same time, Ranger and Francis Saili were our best players in 2013 where both got ABs callups, and Fekitoa admitted himself that he got lazy and started missing trainings etc. but yes, we missed the boat there as Ranger left and Saili proved to be a 1 year wonder.
Waisake Naholo - Yeah another one that slipped through. At the same time, Frank Halai had a good season in 2013 where he also managed to get an ABs callup, and George Moala was one of our best players in what was a lean period for the Blues. Probably written off a bit too early as Halai's form also fell off a cliff after 2013, but hey, it happens.
Emoni Narawa - We have enough quality outside backs. Good on him for moving on and doing well for himself. No use him staying at the Blues behind a whole heap of outside backs.So out of that list, probably 2 we could have gotten more out of. The rest, meh.
I guess this comes to the old glass half full, glass half empty sort of thing. I think you have probably exaggerated how poor some of these guys are, but the broader point was more that there was a time where the Blues weren't getting the best out of the players they had, and weren't recruiting well either, coupled with letting the wrong players go... a lot of that was to do with John Kirwan being a disaster which set you back a few years.
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@African-Monkey said in Blues 2024:
@frugby Tim Perry - Journeyman. Barely got a go at the Crusaders either.
GPT - The less said the better
Angus Ta'avao - Tu'ungafasi, Faumuina, Laulala all better options. Probably on par with Sione Mafileo.
Bryn Evans - Behind Ali Williams and Athony Boric.
Scott Scrafton - Journeyman who barely started for the Canes in a position they are always weak in.
Dan Pryor - Journeyman who was behind Kaino and Luatua for the 6 jersey, and about on par with Brendan O'Connor at the time. No loss.
Sione Havili - We had Blake Gibson at the time (who was fit) and Dalton Papali'i and now have Anton Segner and Adrian Choat fighting for the 7 shirt.
Joe Edwards - Great guy but yeah, no need to go too far into detail there.
JGP - Yeah, he's gone on to bigger and better things, but he had 3 seasons here with mixed success, featured for one season behind Perenara at the Canes then left. No one else seemed keen on taking a punt on him here so t the time, no loss.
Bryn Gatland - He's had about the same success away from the Blues as he had while playing at the Blues. Solid journeyman, nothing more.
Rico Gear - Great player but was stuck behind Howlett, Muliaina, Rokocoko and Caucaunibuca in 2003, got plenty of opportunity in 2004 and played very well before going to the Crusaders. Don't see what more the Blues could have done there, he wanted to go. It is what it is.
Levi Aumua - Didn't get much of an opportunity here and nor did the Blues need him. Again, no one else wanted a bar of him either apart from Moana Pasifika where he shone on attack where the game plan was to get him the ball as much as possible. Defence still a worry, which the Blues coaches weren't impressed with either. Again, hardly a loss.
Fekitoa - Yeah, we missed out there, but at the same time, Ranger and Francis Saili were our best players in 2013 where both got ABs callups, and Fekitoa admitted himself that he got lazy and started missing trainings etc. but yes, we missed the boat there as Ranger left and Saili proved to be a 1 year wonder.
Waisake Naholo - Yeah another one that slipped through. At the same time, Frank Halai had a good season in 2013 where he also managed to get an ABs callup, and George Moala was one of our best players in what was a lean period for the Blues. Probably written off a bit too early as Halai's form also fell off a cliff after 2013, but hey, it happens.
Emoni Narawa - We have enough quality outside backs. Good on him for moving on and doing well for himself. No use him staying at the Blues behind a whole heap of outside backs.So out of that list, probably 2 we could have gotten more out of. The rest, meh.
I guess this comes to the old glass half full, glass half empty sort of thing. I think you have probably exaggerated how poor some of these guys are, but the broader point was more that there was a time where the Blues weren't getting the best out of the players they had, and weren't recruiting well either, coupled with letting the wrong players go... a lot of that was to do with John Kirwan being a disaster which set you back a few years.
@frugby Journeyman doesn't suggest the player was poor, just suggests that they weren't really improving the squad. Who was I being harsh on? I think I was pretty fair on all of them. Yeah, our coaching selections were poor and there were problems off the field which contributed to the problems on the field, but all it is at the end of the day was us going through a tough period. Everyone except the Crusaders (apart from 1996) have had them.
The Highlanders are going through it currently, but it won't last forever.
