RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks

[MiketheSnow]

@nostrildamus said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:

academic question but if SF moves out of his way to avoid a forearm and collapses on a bok (not seeing him) is he still liable for a yellow card? As
a. not targeting limbs (eyes elsewhere) and
b. mitigating circumstances

although Barnes did not seem to consider a. anyway.

Oh well, just an academic question. Personally I thought SF might not have entered the gate/moving offside and the clearing was a bit risky position-wise anyway.

It was a neck roll ffs

[MiketheSnow]

@His-Bobness said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:

@Billy-Tell Yes, Portugal showed the way. They were playing like the ABs. Look at this way. Which country do the minnows and kids in backyards aspire to be? Where do the dreams reside? The way the Erasmus-coached Boks play or the way the ABs play? Which side inspires the advertisers?

SA

Multi-ethnic
Multi-cultural
Rags to riches

[nostrildamus]

@MiketheSnow said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:

@nostrildamus said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:

academic question but if SF moves out of his way to avoid a forearm and collapses on a bok (not seeing him) is he still liable for a yellow card? As
a. not targeting limbs (eyes elsewhere) and
b. mitigating circumstances

although Barnes did not seem to consider a. anyway.

Oh well, just an academic question. Personally I thought SF might not have entered the gate/moving offside and the clearing was a bit risky position-wise anyway.

It was a neck roll ffs

But that wasn't what was officiated? As I said, this was an academic (hypothetical) question

[MiketheSnow]

@BerniesCorner said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:

The counter argument to that is a tournament should build to a crescendo. It didn't.
It shouldn't peak in the quarters.

Both the finalists played in the QF

I don't see your argument

[MiketheSnow]

@Joans-Town-Jones said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:

@MiketheSnow said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:

@Joans-Town-Jones said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:

@taniwharugby said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:

@Joans-Town-Jones yeah I thought Kolisi was the worse, looked more like he was more upright and driving up, whereas Cane was always too high.

But we knew this RWC would have a contentious RC, and oddly, I have been surprised ow few there have been, up until the big dance...

And I'm not disputing the SC red card. Heck, I would settle for a penalty for both only at the most. I'm not even blaming Barnes. We had our chances. But fuck me the TMO needs to fuck off. If SF is copping a YC for that, you have to penalise every tackle on rugby and we are one step away from playing 15 aside touch.

If he hadn't gone for the illegal neck roll he wouldn't have been in a position to fall on Bongi

So post tackle, a player has to run into open field to fall over?

It wasn't a tackle

He was correctly penalised for a neck roll

Then the TMO brought the fall to Barnes' attention

They deemed it was a fall not targeted thuggery and the YC (for the neck roll and resulting fall) remained a YC

I don't understand how we're even discussing it

[Joans Town Jones]

@MiketheSnow said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:

@nostrildamus said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:

academic question but if SF moves out of his way to avoid a forearm and collapses on a bok (not seeing him) is he still liable for a yellow card? As
a. not targeting limbs (eyes elsewhere) and
b. mitigating circumstances

although Barnes did not seem to consider a. anyway.

Oh well, just an academic question. Personally I thought SF might not have entered the gate/moving offside and the clearing was a bit risky position-wise anyway.

It was a neck roll ffs

He wasn't penalised for a neck FFS. He was penalised for falling over.

[Joans Town Jones]

@MiketheSnow said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:

@Joans-Town-Jones said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:

@MiketheSnow said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:

@Joans-Town-Jones said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:

@taniwharugby said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:

@Joans-Town-Jones yeah I thought Kolisi was the worse, looked more like he was more upright and driving up, whereas Cane was always too high.

But we knew this RWC would have a contentious RC, and oddly, I have been surprised ow few there have been, up until the big dance...

And I'm not disputing the SC red card. Heck, I would settle for a penalty for both only at the most. I'm not even blaming Barnes. We had our chances. But fuck me the TMO needs to fuck off. If SF is copping a YC for that, you have to penalise every tackle on rugby and we are one step away from playing 15 aside touch.

If he hadn't gone for the illegal neck roll he wouldn't have been in a position to fall on Bongi

So post tackle, a player has to run into open field to fall over?

It wasn't a tackle

He was correctly penalised for a neck roll

Then the TMO brought the fall to Barnes' attention

They deemed it was a fall not targeted thuggery and the YC (for the neck roll and resulting fall) remained a YC

I don't understand how we're even discussing it

Because you're wrong.

[pooler fan]

@Dodge said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:

@kiwiinmelb said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:

Kick it out

Fucking mental when their hooker can’t throw the ball

I don't think we've got one in Wales that manages it tbh

[BerniesCorner]

@MiketheSnow said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:

@BerniesCorner said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:

The counter argument to that is a tournament should build to a crescendo. It didn't.
It shouldn't peak in the quarters.

Both the finalists played in the QF

I don't see your argument

Of course the finalists played in the QFs

[nostrildamus]

@MiketheSnow said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:

@Joans-Town-Jones said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:

@MiketheSnow said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:

@Joans-Town-Jones said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:

@taniwharugby said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:

@Joans-Town-Jones yeah I thought Kolisi was the worse, looked more like he was more upright and driving up, whereas Cane was always too high.

But we knew this RWC would have a contentious RC, and oddly, I have been surprised ow few there have been, up until the big dance...

And I'm not disputing the SC red card. Heck, I would settle for a penalty for both only at the most. I'm not even blaming Barnes. We had our chances. But fuck me the TMO needs to fuck off. If SF is copping a YC for that, you have to penalise every tackle on rugby and we are one step away from playing 15 aside touch.

If he hadn't gone for the illegal neck roll he wouldn't have been in a position to fall on Bongi

So post tackle, a player has to run into open field to fall over?

It wasn't a tackle

He was correctly penalised for a neck roll

Then the TMO brought the fall to Barnes' attention

They deemed it was a fall not targeted thuggery and the YC (for the neck roll and resulting fall) remained a YC

I don't understand how we're even discussing it

I understood it was for a fall, I just want to understand the process behind the ruling. I'm not trying to overturn the ruling or attack the officials.
There were neckrolls throughout the game that were missed, I'm not asking about them as it is the fall onto limbs one I'd like to know more about as I don't recall seeing that before.

[sparky]

Take your pick:

A couple of baffling decisions from the officials, an over-enthusiastic TMO, the incredible defence of the Boks, Pollard’s super boot, our dodgy goalkicking, the decision to turn down points on offer, Cane’s bad tackle that led to a rightful Red card, the ABs midfield and outfield backs being a bit off their game, Foster being out coached by Razzie, SA being perhaps a wee bit hungrier and wilier.

Whatever. The main thing is that it hurts.

It just wasn’t our night, despite an awesome effort from the boys that left me super proud. In the end it was as close as it could have been.

It just wasn’t our night.

But then I realise there have been times when it’s been that tight and it’s been our night or it’s been our day. Eden Park 1981, Loftus 96, RWC Final 2011 when it mattered so much after Pike’s River and the Christchurch earthquakes. Maybe the big lesson from this is that the fates won’t always elide for you however much you try to make them.

Anyway that’s enough feeling sorry for ourselves IMHO. Time to look forward to 2024 and the start of the 2027 RWC campaign. In Razor we trust! Keep the faith! Go Black!

[MiketheSnow]

@Joans-Town-Jones said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:

@MiketheSnow said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:

@Joans-Town-Jones said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:

@MiketheSnow said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:

@Joans-Town-Jones said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:

@taniwharugby said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:

@Joans-Town-Jones yeah I thought Kolisi was the worse, looked more like he was more upright and driving up, whereas Cane was always too high.

But we knew this RWC would have a contentious RC, and oddly, I have been surprised ow few there have been, up until the big dance...

And I'm not disputing the SC red card. Heck, I would settle for a penalty for both only at the most. I'm not even blaming Barnes. We had our chances. But fuck me the TMO needs to fuck off. If SF is copping a YC for that, you have to penalise every tackle on rugby and we are one step away from playing 15 aside touch.

If he hadn't gone for the illegal neck roll he wouldn't have been in a position to fall on Bongi

So post tackle, a player has to run into open field to fall over?

It wasn't a tackle

He was correctly penalised for a neck roll

Then the TMO brought the fall to Barnes' attention

They deemed it was a fall not targeted thuggery and the YC (for the neck roll and resulting fall) remained a YC

I don't understand how we're even discussing it

Because you're wrong.

Just went back to watch it

I stand corrected

I felt it was a neck roll immediately and the UK commentators all said the same thing practically in unison

Then almost immediately Ben Kay on the UK commentary team identified that they should be looking at the fall on to Bongi's leg

They did and you know what transpired

A clean out and everything is going in the same direction

What SF did was a trap (of the leg) and pull of the neck which pincered Bongi

That's what he got the YC for

The Bunker felt it was accidental and it stayed YC

[MiketheSnow]

@nostrildamus said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:

@MiketheSnow said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:

@Joans-Town-Jones said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:

@MiketheSnow said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:

@Joans-Town-Jones said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:

@taniwharugby said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:

@Joans-Town-Jones yeah I thought Kolisi was the worse, looked more like he was more upright and driving up, whereas Cane was always too high.

But we knew this RWC would have a contentious RC, and oddly, I have been surprised ow few there have been, up until the big dance...

And I'm not disputing the SC red card. Heck, I would settle for a penalty for both only at the most. I'm not even blaming Barnes. We had our chances. But fuck me the TMO needs to fuck off. If SF is copping a YC for that, you have to penalise every tackle on rugby and we are one step away from playing 15 aside touch.

If he hadn't gone for the illegal neck roll he wouldn't have been in a position to fall on Bongi

So post tackle, a player has to run into open field to fall over?

It wasn't a tackle

He was correctly penalised for a neck roll

Then the TMO brought the fall to Barnes' attention

They deemed it was a fall not targeted thuggery and the YC (for the neck roll and resulting fall) remained a YC

I don't understand how we're even discussing it

I understood it was for a fall, I just want to understand the process behind the ruling. I'm not trying to overturn the ruling or attack the officials.
There were neckrolls throughout the game that were missed, I'm not asking about them as it is the fall onto limbs one I'd like to know more about as I don't recall seeing that before.

See above for what I saw and heard on the TV

[MiketheSnow]

@BerniesCorner said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:

@MiketheSnow said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:

@BerniesCorner said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:

The counter argument to that is a tournament should build to a crescendo. It didn't.
It shouldn't peak in the quarters.

Both the finalists played in the QF

I don't see your argument

Of course the finalists played in the QFs

So if they delivered in the QF why didn't they deliver in the Final?

I'd suggest SA played almost exactly the same way at QF, SF, and Final

NZ weren't allowed to play the way they wanted to last night because the SA defence was too good

And NZ needlessly overcomplicated their back moves

[W32]

@canefan said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:

@OomPB said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:

@canefan you will never get ref bashing from me, specially if my team lose. Its the easy excuse. Sound like sour grapes and make you depressed. Refs make mistakes, they are human.

Maybe not you, and it wasn't aimed at you. But the SA fan base in general know how to whinge about refs, and it starts at the top

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/nov/17/rassie-erasmus-suspended-world-rugby-social-media-south-africa-rugby-union#:~:text=Erasmus posted a number of,than privately with World Rugby.

Just one example

Oh the irony. Sad

[W32]

@sparky said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:

Take your pick:

A couple of baffling decisions from the officials, an over-enthusiastic TMO, the incredible defence of the Boks, Pollard’s super boot, our dodgy goalkicking, the decision to turn down points on offer, Cane’s bad tackle that led to a rightful Red card, the ABs midfield and outfield backs being a bit off their game, Foster being out coached by Razzie, SA being perhaps a wee bit hungrier and wilier.

Whatever. The main thing is that it hurts.

It just wasn’t our night, despite an awesome effort from the boys that left me super proud. In the end it was as close as it could have been.

It just wasn’t our night.

But then I realise there have been times when it’s been that tight and it’s been our night or it’s been our day. Eden Park 1981, Loftus 96, RWC Final 2011 when it mattered so much after Pike’s River and the Christchurch earthquakes. Maybe the big lesson from this is that the fates won’t always elide for you however much you try to make them.

Anyway that’s enough feeling sorry for ourselves IMHO. Time to look forward to 2024 and the start of the 2027 RWC campaign. In Razor we trust! Keep the faith! Go Black!

Top post, well done.

[sparky]

[W32]

@MiketheSnow said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:

@His-Bobness said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:

@Billy-Tell Yes, Portugal showed the way. They were playing like the ABs. Look at this way. Which country do the minnows and kids in backyards aspire to be? Where do the dreams reside? The way the Erasmus-coached Boks play or the way the ABs play? Which side inspires the advertisers?

SA

Multi-ethnic
Multi-cultural
Rags to riches

Exactly.

[junior]

@BerniesCorner said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:

This WC had tremendous fan support.
The biggest shiteness to this world cup was the draw. No argument can counter that.

The issue is not fan engagement with a World Cup - those tournaments will always attract dollars and eyeballs. The issue is what happens in the four years between world cups. The international game is regrettably becoming more and more “friendly” and a laboratory for whatever refereeing directives WR want to implement to avoid potentially costly future litigation. The clubs game is fucked, barely financially sustainable outside of France but also barely resembling the international game in the way it is played and refereed - that’s before mentioning the fundamental differences in the way the game is played in club comp.
What this produces is a sad balkanisation of the game where unfortunately the inevitable is that the game will break up and go in several different directions.

[Wairau]

@sparky said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:

Take your pick:

A couple of baffling decisions from the officials, an over-enthusiastic TMO, the incredible defence of the Boks, Pollard’s super boot, our dodgy goalkicking, the decision to turn down points on offer, Cane’s bad tackle that led to a rightful Red card, the ABs midfield and outfield backs being a bit off their game, Foster being out coached by Razzie, SA being perhaps a wee bit hungrier and wilier.

Whatever. The main thing is that it hurts.

It just wasn’t our night, despite an awesome effort from the boys that left me super proud. In the end it was as close as it could have been.

It just wasn’t our night.

But then I realise there have been times when it’s been that tight and it’s been our night or it’s been our day. Eden Park 1981, Loftus 96, RWC Final 2011 when it mattered so much after Pike’s River and the Christchurch earthquakes. Maybe the big lesson from this is that the fates won’t always elide for you however much you try to make them.

Anyway that’s enough feeling sorry for ourselves IMHO. Time to look forward to 2024 and the start of the 2027 RWC campaign. In Razor we trust! Keep the faith! Go Black!

good post, I just watched the first 30 minutes or so. Clear yellow card missed on Etzebeth, ref apologized to AS after penalizing him, which led to crucial 3 points. And SC's card-possible yellow AT MAX. They never re-played the whole passage clearly, other player is running away from Cane then split second reverses and straight at Cane. He was completely surprised. I'm not going to say on purpose, but jeez. South Africa were tricky. Every chance they got would play up neck or head contact to the ref. Erasmus shouting instructions constantly but by calling himself Director of Rugby can avoid interviews and press conferences. Erasmus is ridiculous.