RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks
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@barbarian said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@pakman said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Sometimes the better team loses. That's sport. But ABs did more than enough to win that one and only denied their just desserts by officials, in particular TMO.
You can believe this all you want. Hey whatever makes you sleep at night.
But from where I sat the better team won, and the scoreboard reflected that pretty nicely, as it generally does.
I'm conflicted. The ABs should have been more clinical in the 2nd half and goal kicking obviously cost us, so in that sense we didn't deserve the win.
Having said that, how the hell did SA not put away a team that was down to 14 for 65 minutes of the game? They should never have allowed us to be so close. If Jordie had kicked that final penalty and the ABs had gone on to win that game, that would go down as a massive choke by SA. But they won, so the narrative changes and they are now being hailed as the most clutch team of all time. Fine margins.
@akan004 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@barbarian said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@pakman said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Sometimes the better team loses. That's sport. But ABs did more than enough to win that one and only denied their just desserts by officials, in particular TMO.
You can believe this all you want. Hey whatever makes you sleep at night.
But from where I sat the better team won, and the scoreboard reflected that pretty nicely, as it generally does.
I'm conflicted. The ABs should have been more clinical in the 2nd half and goal kicking obviously cost us, so in that sense we didn't deserve the win.
Having said that, how the hell did SA not put away a team that was down to 14 for 65 minutes of the game? They should never have allowed us to be so close. If Jordie had kicked that final penalty and the ABs had gone on to win that game, that would go down as a massive choke by SA. But they won, so the narrative changes and now are being hailed as the most clutch team of all time. Fine margins.
Yeah this. If we'd failed to beat a team that were a player down (and their captain) for most of the game then the players would have been rightly crucified.
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@Richie8-7 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@barbarian said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Richie8-7 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@barbarian said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
I thought Wayne Barnes had a good game, especially in the last 20. He understood the stakes, let the players decide the game without it descending into a free-for-all
But he'd all but sealed the fate of the match well before that. The Frizzell yellow was worse than Kolisi not getting a red. Not to mention the bizarre rulings around the ruck
Oh this is such loser mentality.
The Boks were up by less than a converted try through most of the half. The last 15 they were up by a point.
The ABs had a mountain of ball and plenty of it in the Boks 22. But thanks to good Bok defence and a few crucial errors under pressure the All Blacks couldn't score. That's rugby and that's why they were the better team on the day... just.
But apparently the match was sealed thanks to a few decisions in the first 50. Not sure why the All Blacks even bothered to play.
The All Blacks did score.
Kind of weird to say a dodgy yellow and early red didn't impact the match. Or just a bad attempt at trolling
Of course it impacted the match, but that's not what you said. You said it 'all but sealed the fate of the game'.
It didn't. The All Blacks had plenty of scoring chances, and as you point out they took one. Game was still plenty alive and if Mo'unga converts then they might well have won.
@barbarian said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Richie8-7 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@barbarian said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Richie8-7 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@barbarian said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
I thought Wayne Barnes had a good game, especially in the last 20. He understood the stakes, let the players decide the game without it descending into a free-for-all
But he'd all but sealed the fate of the match well before that. The Frizzell yellow was worse than Kolisi not getting a red. Not to mention the bizarre rulings around the ruck
Oh this is such loser mentality.
The Boks were up by less than a converted try through most of the half. The last 15 they were up by a point.
The ABs had a mountain of ball and plenty of it in the Boks 22. But thanks to good Bok defence and a few crucial errors under pressure the All Blacks couldn't score. That's rugby and that's why they were the better team on the day... just.
But apparently the match was sealed thanks to a few decisions in the first 50. Not sure why the All Blacks even bothered to play.
The All Blacks did score.
Kind of weird to say a dodgy yellow and early red didn't impact the match. Or just a bad attempt at trolling
Of course it impacted the match, but that's not what you said. You said it 'all but sealed the fate of the game'.
It didn't. The All Blacks had plenty of scoring chances, and as you point out they took one. Game was still plenty alive and if Mo'unga converts then they might well have won.
Sorry, but it did. That we still had a chance was amazing. But in the end, it determined the outcome. Mind boggling this is even a discussion point
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@barbarian said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@pakman said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Sometimes the better team loses. That's sport. But ABs did more than enough to win that one and only denied their just desserts by officials, in particular TMO.
You can believe this all you want. Hey whatever makes you sleep at night.
But from where I sat the better team won, and the scoreboard reflected that pretty nicely, as it generally does.
I'm conflicted. The ABs should have been more clinical in the 2nd half and goal kicking obviously cost us, so in that sense we didn't deserve the win.
Having said that, how the hell did SA not put away a team that was down to 14 for 65 minutes of the game? They should never have allowed us to be so close. If Jordie had kicked that final penalty and the ABs had gone on to win that game, that would go down as a massive choke by SA. But they won, so the narrative changes and they are now being hailed as the most clutch team of all time. Fine margins.
@akan004 Can't disagree. And within those fine margins lies the madness and the beauty of the whole thing.
I thought Siya Kolisi bombed a pretty certain try at the start of the second half, then got himself yellow carded soonafter. But instead of a pariah, he's a conquering hero.
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Apologies for the admittedly blatant trolling. I should remember not to lower my standards to the dickheads that I'm annoyed about.
Tough luck in the final. It was a coin toss. Just like the QF and all of the SA games. I wanted the NZ style of rugby to triumph but puke rugby wins trophies now unfortunately.
The officiating of the game needs to evolve and change to encourage positive rugby. -
Question - do we know who the foul play adjudicators that Foley referred to were? World Rugby appointed them, and I don't believe named them. Are they referees like Jonker and O'Keeffe, or are they outside that echelon? I thought the Kolisi decision was a bit odd, and wondered who made it - as apparently not Tom Foley.
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@Richie8-7 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@barbarian said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Richie8-7 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@barbarian said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
I thought Wayne Barnes had a good game, especially in the last 20. He understood the stakes, let the players decide the game without it descending into a free-for-all
But he'd all but sealed the fate of the match well before that. The Frizzell yellow was worse than Kolisi not getting a red. Not to mention the bizarre rulings around the ruck
Oh this is such loser mentality.
The Boks were up by less than a converted try through most of the half. The last 15 they were up by a point.
The ABs had a mountain of ball and plenty of it in the Boks 22. But thanks to good Bok defence and a few crucial errors under pressure the All Blacks couldn't score. That's rugby and that's why they were the better team on the day... just.
But apparently the match was sealed thanks to a few decisions in the first 50. Not sure why the All Blacks even bothered to play.
The All Blacks did score.
Kind of weird to say a dodgy yellow and early red didn't impact the match. Or just a bad attempt at trolling
Of course it impacted the match, but that's not what you said. You said it 'all but sealed the fate of the game'.
It didn't. The All Blacks had plenty of scoring chances, and as you point out they took one. Game was still plenty alive and if Mo'unga converts then they might well have won.
@barbarian said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Richie8-7 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@barbarian said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Richie8-7 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@barbarian said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
I thought Wayne Barnes had a good game, especially in the last 20. He understood the stakes, let the players decide the game without it descending into a free-for-all
But he'd all but sealed the fate of the match well before that. The Frizzell yellow was worse than Kolisi not getting a red. Not to mention the bizarre rulings around the ruck
Oh this is such loser mentality.
The Boks were up by less than a converted try through most of the half. The last 15 they were up by a point.
The ABs had a mountain of ball and plenty of it in the Boks 22. But thanks to good Bok defence and a few crucial errors under pressure the All Blacks couldn't score. That's rugby and that's why they were the better team on the day... just.
But apparently the match was sealed thanks to a few decisions in the first 50. Not sure why the All Blacks even bothered to play.
The All Blacks did score.
Kind of weird to say a dodgy yellow and early red didn't impact the match. Or just a bad attempt at trolling
Of course it impacted the match, but that's not what you said. You said it 'all but sealed the fate of the game'.
It didn't. The All Blacks had plenty of scoring chances, and as you point out they took one. Game was still plenty alive and if Mo'unga converts then they might well have won.
I take issue with the “plenty”. We certainly had opportunities but they weren’t a plenty and that’s because the game was largely played in a defensive way by both sides. I have absolutely no problem with how we approached the game. It had served us well in the last two weeks where our defence had been huge. And it was huge once again in the final.
We missed two kicks. There was probably two other real opportunities. We built some phase play and then we either turned the ball over or kicked. The stats on kicks from hand showed that the Boks really only built phase play from set piece but they didn’t show much variation in general play because of both tactics and the AB defence. The contrast is that in both the QF vs France and even the semi against England they tried to build phase play.
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@voodoo Because now is exactly when it comes back to bite him in the arse.
So much for the famous "humility"... He did a lot of damage to perception of NZ rugby sportsmanship in the NH. Maybe you don't care about that and that's fine too.
Glad to hear it wasn't popular on here, although I didn't think it would among the majority of posters.@bluedex said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@voodoo Because now is exactly when it comes back to bite him in the arse.
So much for the famous "humility"... He did a lot of damage to perception of NZ rugby sportsmanship in the NH. Maybe you don't care about that and that's fine too.
Glad to hear it wasn't popular on here, although I didn't think it would among the majority of posters.Sexton's ongoing treatment of officials has damaged the perception of Irish rugby sportsmanship. Maybe you don't care about that, but I really do.
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Apologies for the admittedly blatant trolling. I should remember not to lower my standards to the dickheads that I'm annoyed about.
Tough luck in the final. It was a coin toss. Just like the QF and all of the SA games. I wanted the NZ style of rugby to triumph but puke rugby wins trophies now unfortunately.
The officiating of the game needs to evolve and change to encourage positive rugby. -
Question - do we know who the foul play adjudicators that Foley referred to were? World Rugby appointed them, and I don't believe named them. Are they referees like Jonker and O'Keeffe, or are they outside that echelon? I thought the Kolisi decision was a bit odd, and wondered who made it - as apparently not Tom Foley.
@ARHS said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Question - do we know who the foul play adjudicators that Foley referred to were? World Rugby appointed them, and I don't believe named them.
I doubt we'll ever know who they are, as I wasn't even aware that they are based at Roland Garros, not the match venues. They could have been some of the sub-standard TMOs used earlier.
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Apologies for the admittedly blatant trolling. I should remember not to lower my standards to the dickheads that I'm annoyed about.
Tough luck in the final. It was a coin toss. Just like the QF and all of the SA games. I wanted the NZ style of rugby to triumph but puke rugby wins trophies now unfortunately.
The officiating of the game needs to evolve and change to encourage positive rugby.@bluedex said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Apologies for the admittedly blatant trolling. I should remember not to lower my standards to the dickheads that I'm annoyed about.
Tough luck in the final. It was a coin toss. Just like the QF and all of the SA games. I wanted the NZ style of rugby to triumph but puke rugby wins trophies now unfortunately.
The officiating of the game needs to evolve and change to encourage positive rugby.So you're a butthurt Irish fan? Your team has never made a semi and you're mouthing off at a team that extremely controversially lost a final by one point. Gold
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@bluedex said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
I hope Reiko didn't miss his flight home.
Karma's a bitch.probably did, Rieko on the other hand...
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@akan004 Can't disagree. And within those fine margins lies the madness and the beauty of the whole thing.
I thought Siya Kolisi bombed a pretty certain try at the start of the second half, then got himself yellow carded soonafter. But instead of a pariah, he's a conquering hero.
@barbarian said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@akan004 Can't disagree. And within those fine margins lies the madness and the beauty of the whole thing.
I thought Siya Kolisi bombed a pretty certain try at the start of the second half, then got himself yellow carded soonafter. But instead of a pariah, he's a conquering hero.
And Jordie Barrett misses a long penalty kick that could have won the game and had him revered like Stephen Donald in New Zealand.
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@bluedex said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
All lovely guys on here I see lol
12:53 am
Monday, 30 October 2023 (GMT)
Time in Dublin, County Dublin, IrelandFew drinks, get on an NZ board and get stuck in ... happy days.
@nzzp said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@bluedex said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
All lovely guys on here I see lol
12:53 am
Monday, 30 October 2023 (GMT)
Time in Dublin, County Dublin, IrelandFew drinks, get on an NZ board and get stuck in ... happy days.
Very friendly group alright
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That was the WC final, the absolute pinnacle of our sport, with the two form teams of the comp going hammer and tong playing completely different styles. It was all set up for an absolute classic.
And what did we get? Constant stoppages for the TMO to pour over footage of a super dynamic sport, not looking for genuine foul play, but for minor indiscretions and errors of judgement by players absolutely throwing themselves around for 80 minutes.
And the result was a stop start game that included so many cards, including a red that basically sealed the fate of the game for one side, that it is impossible to tell what would have even happened if both sides were allowed to keep 15 men on the pitch.
That was a potentially incredible game of rugby between two supremely talented sides that was never allowed to get going. If that's the pinnacle, then rugby is badly broken as a sport.
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@nzzp said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@bluedex said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
All lovely guys on here I see lol
12:53 am
Monday, 30 October 2023 (GMT)
Time in Dublin, County Dublin, IrelandFew drinks, get on an NZ board and get stuck in ... happy days.
Very friendly group alright
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I’m not suggesting we were better off with cane gone because that would be just stupid ,
But it did seem to click us into gear , we seemed really sloppy before that time and it was like we developed a new focus .
But I would probably need to watch it again and I don’t have a desire to do that .
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I’m not suggesting we were better off with cane gone because that would be just stupid ,
But it did seem to click us into gear , we seemed really sloppy before that time and it was like we developed a new focus .
But I would probably need to watch it again and I don’t have a desire to do that .
@kiwiinmelb unfortunately we have had far too much practice playing a man down and I expect it changes not only thier patterns but mindset too, and when we were still in it at the break, I'd say that gave a boost, sadly we werent able to execute.
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@kiwiinmelb unfortunately we have had far too much practice playing a man down and I expect it changes not only thier patterns but mindset too, and when we were still in it at the break, I'd say that gave a boost, sadly we werent able to execute.
@taniwharugby said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@kiwiinmelb unfortunately we have had far too much practice playing a man down
2011 RWC final is the last one I can remember where we kept everyone on the paddock in the critical game. But - preparing the list below, also the 2019 semi (we just got beaten)
2015 Final - Ben Smith YC
2017 Lions 3 - JK got a yellos
2019 English semi - surprisingly looks like we kept everyone there
2023 Final - RC YC (and 4 cards in the game FFS)Are we the most carded tier 1 side? I think we probably are
