RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks
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@booboo In law, making a mistake in the process precludes the possibility of a correct decision. That’s how appeal lawyers win cases. Conversely, while a proper application of process does not automatically imply a correct decision, it makes it harder to argue for a reversal unless you have other evidence. In this case, the process was incorrect. The try should have stood. If you say the decision was ‘correct’ we get back to subjective judgements and arguments about who is in charge here.
@His-Bobness said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@booboo In law, making a mistake in the process precludes the possibility of a correct decision. That’s how appeal lawyers win cases. Conversely, while a proper application of process does not automatically imply a correct decision, it makes it harder to argue for a reversal unless you have other evidence. In this case, the process was incorrect. The try should have stood. If you say the decision was ‘correct’ we get back to subjective judgements and arguments about who is in charge here.
You’re right that ref needs to remain the sole judge of the laws on the field.
And I endorse your implicit call for us all to accept and embrace that they are going to get things wrong and that’s a fundamental part of the game.
Glad that’s sorted out. Can we please start talking about the rugby?
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Wayne Barnes talks about the game and other things.
https://www.podbean.com/media/share/dir-nr5sd-1bdb66ee?utm_campaign=i_share_ep&utm_medium=dlink&utm_source=i_share@W32 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Wayne Barnes talks about the game and other things.
https://www.podbean.com/media/share/dir-nr5sd-1bdb66ee?utm_campaign=i_share_ep&utm_medium=dlink&utm_source=i_shareGreatest referees my ass. Enough said !!
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@W32 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Wayne Barnes talks about the game and other things.
https://www.podbean.com/media/share/dir-nr5sd-1bdb66ee?utm_campaign=i_share_ep&utm_medium=dlink&utm_source=i_shareGreatest referees my ass. Enough said !!
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@W32 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Wayne Barnes talks about the game and other things.
https://www.podbean.com/media/share/dir-nr5sd-1bdb66ee?utm_campaign=i_share_ep&utm_medium=dlink&utm_source=i_shareGreatest referees my ass. Enough said !!
Honestly, I am glad to see the back of him
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@W32 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Wayne Barnes talks about the game and other things.
https://www.podbean.com/media/share/dir-nr5sd-1bdb66ee?utm_campaign=i_share_ep&utm_medium=dlink&utm_source=i_shareGreatest referees my ass. Enough said !!
@mencey said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@W32 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Wayne Barnes talks about the game and other things.
https://www.podbean.com/media/share/dir-nr5sd-1bdb66ee?utm_campaign=i_share_ep&utm_medium=dlink&utm_source=i_shareGreatest referees my ass. Enough said !!
I find that a contradiction in terms. A referee in any sport is there to be as unnoticed as possible and do a fucken job. Not “be great”. Part of the reason I found Bill Bowdens “antics” really tiresome. We’re there to watch cricket, not him.
Sure it’s a thankless job but don’t sign up for it if you’re not up to it.
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@mencey said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@W32 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Wayne Barnes talks about the game and other things.
https://www.podbean.com/media/share/dir-nr5sd-1bdb66ee?utm_campaign=i_share_ep&utm_medium=dlink&utm_source=i_shareGreatest referees my ass. Enough said !!
I find that a contradiction in terms. A referee in any sport is there to be as unnoticed as possible and do a fucken job. Not “be great”. Part of the reason I found Bill Bowdens “antics” really tiresome. We’re there to watch cricket, not him.
Sure it’s a thankless job but don’t sign up for it if you’re not up to it.
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Steve Parish, Chairman and Co-Owner of Crystal Palace Football Club, "I watched the Rugby World Cup Final and it was really about the ref....."
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Hearing rumours that Foley, the TMO (or maybe AR can’t remember) from the final has been stood down from 6N duties
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Hearing rumours that Foley, the TMO (or maybe AR can’t remember) from the final has been stood down from 6N duties
@Catogrande and that is an interesting point.
For players it is OK to be critical of them, point out they missed 5 tackles, conceded 4 turnovers and dropped the ball 3 times, but not ok to point out some glaring errors from a ref (obviously this is a bit different and one assumes/hopes the ref managers review these and give feedback and areas to improve)
In addition, players get dropped due to poor play, refs rarely are held to account in the same way.
As I keep saying, the refs job is made more difficult with the rules and how they can be interpreted differently from ref to ref, rather than simple and then the ref either calls it or he doesn't.
That said, I am not a fan of getting stuck into the ref, but is almost hypocritical to critique players and not refs.
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@Catogrande and that is an interesting point.
For players it is OK to be critical of them, point out they missed 5 tackles, conceded 4 turnovers and dropped the ball 3 times, but not ok to point out some glaring errors from a ref (obviously this is a bit different and one assumes/hopes the ref managers review these and give feedback and areas to improve)
In addition, players get dropped due to poor play, refs rarely are held to account in the same way.
As I keep saying, the refs job is made more difficult with the rules and how they can be interpreted differently from ref to ref, rather than simple and then the ref either calls it or he doesn't.
That said, I am not a fan of getting stuck into the ref, but is almost hypocritical to critique players and not refs.
@taniwharugby said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
That said, I am not a fan of getting stuck into the ref, but is almost hypocritical to critique players and not refs.
thing is, if one ref struggles that's their problem. If you struggle to have refs capable of refereeing a game without controversy, that's more on the system and laws than the refs. They get an un-refereeable game.
None of that excuses the TMO cockups or inconsistency of course
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The problem is that the TMOs are usually sub-standard refs to begin with, and there are plenty of recent examples of that. Does Foley ref regularly in the Premiership?
@Bovidae said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
The problem is that the TMOs are usually sub-standard refs to begin with, and there are plenty of recent examples of that. Does Foley ref regularly in the Premiership?
At a rugby club lunch today and sat with a professional ref, come background official and that was his exact point. The guys in the bunker and often as TMOs are not selected as refs so much as they’re not much cop.
He also had an interesting insight into referee selection at the top level. Amazingly it seems that if Wayne Barnes had have pulled a hamstring the night before the final, we’d have had Dickson reffing the game
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@Bovidae said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
The problem is that the TMOs are usually sub-standard refs to begin with, and there are plenty of recent examples of that. Does Foley ref regularly in the Premiership?
At a rugby club lunch today and sat with a professional ref, come background official and that was his exact point. The guys in the bunker and often as TMOs are not selected as refs so much as they’re not much cop.
He also had an interesting insight into referee selection at the top level. Amazingly it seems that if Wayne Barnes had have pulled a hamstring the night before the final, we’d have had Dickson reffing the game
@Catogrande said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
He also had an interesting insight into referee selection at the top level. Amazingly it seems that if Wayne Barnes had have pulled a hamstring the night before the final, we’d have had Dickson reffing the game
Unfortunately, the upshot of having a bunch of shit pedants as English refs, is that the only way to guarantee that there won't be one appointed to any particular match, is to watch England play. Which is as sure a way to guarantee watching a shit match, as watching an English ref ruin one.
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@Catogrande said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
He also had an interesting insight into referee selection at the top level. Amazingly it seems that if Wayne Barnes had have pulled a hamstring the night before the final, we’d have had Dickson reffing the game
Unfortunately, the upshot of having a bunch of shit pedants as English refs, is that the only way to guarantee that there won't be one appointed to any particular match, is to watch England play. Which is as sure a way to guarantee watching a shit match, as watching an English ref ruin one.
@Snowy said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Catogrande said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
He also had an interesting insight into referee selection at the top level. Amazingly it seems that if Wayne Barnes had have pulled a hamstring the night before the final, we’d have had Dickson reffing the game
Unfortunately, the upshot of having a bunch of shit pedants as English refs, is that the only way to guarantee that there won't be one appointed to any particular match, is to watch England play. Which is as sure a way to guarantee watching a shit match, as watching an English ref ruin one.
The irony is Luke Pierce is an excellent English ref who seems out of favour.
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@Snowy said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Catogrande said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
He also had an interesting insight into referee selection at the top level. Amazingly it seems that if Wayne Barnes had have pulled a hamstring the night before the final, we’d have had Dickson reffing the game
Unfortunately, the upshot of having a bunch of shit pedants as English refs, is that the only way to guarantee that there won't be one appointed to any particular match, is to watch England play. Which is as sure a way to guarantee watching a shit match, as watching an English ref ruin one.
The irony is Luke Pierce is an excellent English ref who seems out of favour.
@KiwiMurph said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Snowy said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Catogrande said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
He also had an interesting insight into referee selection at the top level. Amazingly it seems that if Wayne Barnes had have pulled a hamstring the night before the final, we’d have had Dickson reffing the game
Unfortunately, the upshot of having a bunch of shit pedants as English refs, is that the only way to guarantee that there won't be one appointed to any particular match, is to watch England play. Which is as sure a way to guarantee watching a shit match, as watching an English ref ruin one.
The irony is Luke Pierce is an excellent English ref who seems out of favour.
This also came up in the discussion at the club lunch. Most officials were gobsmacked at how underused Pierce was.
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@KiwiMurph said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Snowy said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Catogrande said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
He also had an interesting insight into referee selection at the top level. Amazingly it seems that if Wayne Barnes had have pulled a hamstring the night before the final, we’d have had Dickson reffing the game
Unfortunately, the upshot of having a bunch of shit pedants as English refs, is that the only way to guarantee that there won't be one appointed to any particular match, is to watch England play. Which is as sure a way to guarantee watching a shit match, as watching an English ref ruin one.
The irony is Luke Pierce is an excellent English ref who seems out of favour.
This also came up in the discussion at the club lunch. Most officials were gobsmacked at how underused Pierce was.
@Catogrande said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@KiwiMurph said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Snowy said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Catogrande said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
He also had an interesting insight into referee selection at the top level. Amazingly it seems that if Wayne Barnes had have pulled a hamstring the night before the final, we’d have had Dickson reffing the game
Unfortunately, the upshot of having a bunch of shit pedants as English refs, is that the only way to guarantee that there won't be one appointed to any particular match, is to watch England play. Which is as sure a way to guarantee watching a shit match, as watching an English ref ruin one.
The irony is Luke Pierce is an excellent English ref who seems out of favour.
This also came up in the discussion at the club lunch. Most officials were gobsmacked at how underused Pierce was.
Georgian too
Thanks a lot
