NZR review
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Hmmmm...the PUs have plans of their own.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/350202405/npc-unions-land-new-partner-move-away-nz-rugby
The 14 provincial rugby unions have landed global insurance company Gallagher, the sponsors of the English Premiership, as a partner in a new commercial strategy that will deliver a greater autonomy from New Zealand Rugby.
@Bovidae will read the details but on the heading i dont hate it, im not a fan of the unions being so reliant on NZR
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If they aren't crowding out financing and the unions can become self-sustaining, great. Otherwise if they continue to be mendicants, change is inevitable.
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If they aren't crowding out financing and the unions can become self-sustaining, great. Otherwise if they continue to be mendicants, change is inevitable.
@antipodean Good on them.Take away provincial unions, club rugby and NZRFU have nothing. Not sure what NZRPA’s problem is? The austerity mantra of cutting everything and selling assets to the private sector for short term game is driven by flawed neoclassical economic theory. It starts at central government but is insidious pervading every aspect of our lives for the worse.
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@antipodean Good on them.Take away provincial unions, club rugby and NZRFU have nothing. Not sure what NZRPA’s problem is? The austerity mantra of cutting everything and selling assets to the private sector for short term game is driven by flawed neoclassical economic theory. It starts at central government but is insidious pervading every aspect of our lives for the worse.
@kev said in NZR review:
@antipodean Good on them.Take away provincial unions, club rugby and NZRFU have nothing. Not sure what NZRPA’s problem is? The austerity mantra of cutting everything and selling assets to the private sector for short term game is driven by flawed neoclassical economic theory. It starts at central government but is insidious pervading every aspect of our lives for the worse.
I'm not sold that continuing to spend money on something that loses money is good for long term security.
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@kev said in NZR review:
@antipodean Good on them.Take away provincial unions, club rugby and NZRFU have nothing. Not sure what NZRPA’s problem is? The austerity mantra of cutting everything and selling assets to the private sector for short term game is driven by flawed neoclassical economic theory. It starts at central government but is insidious pervading every aspect of our lives for the worse.
I'm not sold that continuing to spend money on something that loses money is good for long term security.
@antipodean said in NZR review:
@kev said in NZR review:
@antipodean Good on them.Take away provincial unions, club rugby and NZRFU have nothing. Not sure what NZRPA’s problem is? The austerity mantra of cutting everything and selling assets to the private sector for short term game is driven by flawed neoclassical economic theory. It starts at central government but is insidious pervading every aspect of our lives for the worse.
I'm not sold that continuing to spend money on something that loses money is good for long term security.
It’s like running a business where someone else builds the roads and trains your people. Just artificial boundaries, externalising the “other” costs and telling yourself you make all the money.
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@antipodean said in NZR review:
@kev said in NZR review:
@antipodean Good on them.Take away provincial unions, club rugby and NZRFU have nothing. Not sure what NZRPA’s problem is? The austerity mantra of cutting everything and selling assets to the private sector for short term game is driven by flawed neoclassical economic theory. It starts at central government but is insidious pervading every aspect of our lives for the worse.
I'm not sold that continuing to spend money on something that loses money is good for long term security.
It’s like running a business where someone else builds the roads and trains your people. Just artificial boundaries, externalising the “other” costs and telling yourself you make all the money.
@kev said in NZR review:
@antipodean said in NZR review:
@kev said in NZR review:
@antipodean Good on them.Take away provincial unions, club rugby and NZRFU have nothing. Not sure what NZRPA’s problem is? The austerity mantra of cutting everything and selling assets to the private sector for short term game is driven by flawed neoclassical economic theory. It starts at central government but is insidious pervading every aspect of our lives for the worse.
I'm not sold that continuing to spend money on something that loses money is good for long term security.
It’s like running a business where someone else builds the roads and trains your people. Just artificial boundaries, externalising the “other” costs and telling yourself you make all the money.
But the NPC is no longer the provider. Schools -> Academy -> Super Rugby -> All Blacks is how it works now. The NPC is a relic of a bygone era and we need to recognise that and adapt accordingly.
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@kev said in NZR review:
@antipodean said in NZR review:
@kev said in NZR review:
@antipodean Good on them.Take away provincial unions, club rugby and NZRFU have nothing. Not sure what NZRPA’s problem is? The austerity mantra of cutting everything and selling assets to the private sector for short term game is driven by flawed neoclassical economic theory. It starts at central government but is insidious pervading every aspect of our lives for the worse.
I'm not sold that continuing to spend money on something that loses money is good for long term security.
It’s like running a business where someone else builds the roads and trains your people. Just artificial boundaries, externalising the “other” costs and telling yourself you make all the money.
But the NPC is no longer the provider. Schools -> Academy -> Super Rugby -> All Blacks is how it works now. The NPC is a relic of a bygone era and we need to recognise that and adapt accordingly.
@antipodean partly true but not completely as provincial rugby provides a much broader base. But that in any case only deals with the elite level of the game. It says that provincial rugby and club rugby in the places where people live don’t matter? If that’s the case the All Blacks will no longer represent NZ they will just be another team that plays for money.
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Didnt the review conclude that the NZR board was not fit for purpose and needed change?
What have the board done to follow the recommendations?
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@kev said in NZR review:
@antipodean said in NZR review:
@kev said in NZR review:
@antipodean Good on them.Take away provincial unions, club rugby and NZRFU have nothing. Not sure what NZRPA’s problem is? The austerity mantra of cutting everything and selling assets to the private sector for short term game is driven by flawed neoclassical economic theory. It starts at central government but is insidious pervading every aspect of our lives for the worse.
I'm not sold that continuing to spend money on something that loses money is good for long term security.
It’s like running a business where someone else builds the roads and trains your people. Just artificial boundaries, externalising the “other” costs and telling yourself you make all the money.
But the NPC is no longer the provider. Schools -> Academy -> Super Rugby -> All Blacks is how it works now. The NPC is a relic of a bygone era and we need to recognise that and adapt accordingly.
@antipodean said in NZR review:
@kev said in NZR review:
@antipodean said in NZR review:
@kev said in NZR review:
@antipodean Good on them.Take away provincial unions, club rugby and NZRFU have nothing. Not sure what NZRPA’s problem is? The austerity mantra of cutting everything and selling assets to the private sector for short term game is driven by flawed neoclassical economic theory. It starts at central government but is insidious pervading every aspect of our lives for the worse.
I'm not sold that continuing to spend money on something that loses money is good for long term security.
It’s like running a business where someone else builds the roads and trains your people. Just artificial boundaries, externalising the “other” costs and telling yourself you make all the money.
But the NPC is no longer the provider. Schools -> Academy -> Super Rugby -> All Blacks is how it works now. The NPC is a relic of a bygone era and we need to recognise that and adapt accordingly.
whilst that is the main pathway now the NPC does still play a part in the process, connecting to the provinces outside the main centres, running the club game which is a fanbase literally made up of people that love rugby so much they want to keep playing it. i think cutting it loose completely would be a mistake
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The PUs still play an important role in the rugby development system. While the young players might be in academies straight out of school, they play for their provincial U19s before graduating to the SR U20s and then the NPC teams. Without any provincial games (including age-group) or club games these young guys wouldn't be playing at all.
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@antipodean said in NZR review:
@kev said in NZR review:
@antipodean said in NZR review:
@kev said in NZR review:
@antipodean Good on them.Take away provincial unions, club rugby and NZRFU have nothing. Not sure what NZRPA’s problem is? The austerity mantra of cutting everything and selling assets to the private sector for short term game is driven by flawed neoclassical economic theory. It starts at central government but is insidious pervading every aspect of our lives for the worse.
I'm not sold that continuing to spend money on something that loses money is good for long term security.
It’s like running a business where someone else builds the roads and trains your people. Just artificial boundaries, externalising the “other” costs and telling yourself you make all the money.
But the NPC is no longer the provider. Schools -> Academy -> Super Rugby -> All Blacks is how it works now. The NPC is a relic of a bygone era and we need to recognise that and adapt accordingly.
whilst that is the main pathway now the NPC does still play a part in the process, connecting to the provinces outside the main centres, running the club game which is a fanbase literally made up of people that love rugby so much they want to keep playing it. i think cutting it loose completely would be a mistake
@Kiwiwomble said in NZR review:
@antipodean said in NZR review:
@kev said in NZR review:
@antipodean said in NZR review:
@kev said in NZR review:
@antipodean Good on them.Take away provincial unions, club rugby and NZRFU have nothing. Not sure what NZRPA’s problem is? The austerity mantra of cutting everything and selling assets to the private sector for short term game is driven by flawed neoclassical economic theory. It starts at central government but is insidious pervading every aspect of our lives for the worse.
I'm not sold that continuing to spend money on something that loses money is good for long term security.
It’s like running a business where someone else builds the roads and trains your people. Just artificial boundaries, externalising the “other” costs and telling yourself you make all the money.
But the NPC is no longer the provider. Schools -> Academy -> Super Rugby -> All Blacks is how it works now. The NPC is a relic of a bygone era and we need to recognise that and adapt accordingly.
whilst that is the main pathway now the NPC does still play a part in the process, connecting to the provinces outside the main centres, running the club game which is a fanbase literally made up of people that love rugby so much they want to keep playing it. i think cutting it loose completely would be a mistake
That can happen in an entirely amateur competition. Like it used to be. There are people emotionally invested in the NPC because that's what they grew up with, but it's not the 1980s anymore.
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@Kiwiwomble said in NZR review:
@antipodean said in NZR review:
@kev said in NZR review:
@antipodean said in NZR review:
@kev said in NZR review:
@antipodean Good on them.Take away provincial unions, club rugby and NZRFU have nothing. Not sure what NZRPA’s problem is? The austerity mantra of cutting everything and selling assets to the private sector for short term game is driven by flawed neoclassical economic theory. It starts at central government but is insidious pervading every aspect of our lives for the worse.
I'm not sold that continuing to spend money on something that loses money is good for long term security.
It’s like running a business where someone else builds the roads and trains your people. Just artificial boundaries, externalising the “other” costs and telling yourself you make all the money.
But the NPC is no longer the provider. Schools -> Academy -> Super Rugby -> All Blacks is how it works now. The NPC is a relic of a bygone era and we need to recognise that and adapt accordingly.
whilst that is the main pathway now the NPC does still play a part in the process, connecting to the provinces outside the main centres, running the club game which is a fanbase literally made up of people that love rugby so much they want to keep playing it. i think cutting it loose completely would be a mistake
That can happen in an entirely amateur competition. Like it used to be. There are people emotionally invested in the NPC because that's what they grew up with, but it's not the 1980s anymore.
@antipodean amature players maybe ...but the organisation itself still needs to be financially viable for its expenses and to make sure its being run by professionals
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@antipodean amature players maybe ...but the organisation itself still needs to be financially viable for its expenses and to make sure its being run by professionals
@Kiwiwomble said in NZR review:
@antipodean amature players maybe ...but the organisation itself still needs to be financially viable for its expenses
Like club football?
and to make sure its being run by professionals
Competent or renumerated?
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@Kiwiwomble said in NZR review:
@antipodean amature players maybe ...but the organisation itself still needs to be financially viable for its expenses
Like club football?
and to make sure its being run by professionals
Competent or renumerated?
@antipodean said in NZR review:
@Kiwiwomble said in NZR review:
and to make sure its being run by professionals
Competent or renumerated?
i think the reality is both, i dont think running a union is a part time job and we cant expect the right people to do it for free
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@antipodean said in NZR review:
@Kiwiwomble said in NZR review:
and to make sure its being run by professionals
Competent or renumerated?
i think the reality is both, i dont think running a union is a part time job and we cant expect the right people to do it for free
@Kiwiwomble said in NZR review:
@antipodean said in NZR review:
@Kiwiwomble said in NZR review:
and to make sure its being run by professionals
Competent or renumerated?
i think the reality is both, i dont think running a union is a part time job and we cant expect the right people to do it for free
Then you've still removed 80-90% of your costs.
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Until NZR decide what is the right structure to move forward with, I think the unions will continue to try exhaust many avenues. While I dont think the existing NPC product is viable in its current capacity it is essentially still a better local tribal way of connecting players with communities and is a relatively good foundational model for players to progress.
Like most good foundations you don't ultimately see profit from here, that comes from the products that successfully leverage this foundation. In fact a percentage of that success should be attributed to your foundational model.
However, does this become amateur? Can you create a bimodal model where some costs/services can be centralized while others stay local? Should super rugby have more teams?, should the SR season be longer regardless like other pro comps? I think they are very good questions but are all linked to NZR getting their future structure right. There should be a way to remove some structural cost, but it is important to try and keep what is working well, while looking to continually improve what isn't.
NZR need to move on this relatively quickly (with some sort of feedback model) otherwise unions will just continue to destabilize everything.
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It's here.
The basic line here is a vote for option A, a (slightly watered-down ?) option based on the review's recommendations. If the votes fail, there is a watered-down option B "...alternative governance proposal which we believe still meets the underlying principles of the governance review."
Ooooh I wonder what will happen
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@kev said in NZR review:
@antipodean said in NZR review:
@kev said in NZR review:
@antipodean Good on them.Take away provincial unions, club rugby and NZRFU have nothing. Not sure what NZRPA’s problem is? The austerity mantra of cutting everything and selling assets to the private sector for short term game is driven by flawed neoclassical economic theory. It starts at central government but is insidious pervading every aspect of our lives for the worse.
I'm not sold that continuing to spend money on something that loses money is good for long term security.
It’s like running a business where someone else builds the roads and trains your people. Just artificial boundaries, externalising the “other” costs and telling yourself you make all the money.
But the NPC is no longer the provider. Schools -> Academy -> Super Rugby -> All Blacks is how it works now. The NPC is a relic of a bygone era and we need to recognise that and adapt accordingly.
@antipodean said in NZR review:
@kev said in NZR review:
@antipodean said in NZR review:
@kev said in NZR review:
@antipodean Good on them.Take away provincial unions, club rugby and NZRFU have nothing. Not sure what NZRPA’s problem is? The austerity mantra of cutting everything and selling assets to the private sector for short term game is driven by flawed neoclassical economic theory. It starts at central government but is insidious pervading every aspect of our lives for the worse.
I'm not sold that continuing to spend money on something that loses money is good for long term security.
It’s like running a business where someone else builds the roads and trains your people. Just artificial boundaries, externalising the “other” costs and telling yourself you make all the money.
But the NPC is no longer the provider. Schools -> Academy -> Super Rugby -> All Blacks is how it works now. The NPC is a relic of a bygone era and we need to recognise that and adapt accordingly.
I don't really agree with that mate, I think NPC is great stepping stone. I just looking at Grndley from my club here in Hawera, who has gone to Blues and Jacomb to the Blues after great NPC stuff. Last year we saw Rona do same. I think it's a thing we have that Aus really need, you can only do so much at academy level, but you need NPC as a finishing school for most players.
Mind you in saying that I NPC's biggest fan anyway, absolutely love it! -
@antipodean said in NZR review:
@kev said in NZR review:
@antipodean said in NZR review:
@kev said in NZR review:
@antipodean Good on them.Take away provincial unions, club rugby and NZRFU have nothing. Not sure what NZRPA’s problem is? The austerity mantra of cutting everything and selling assets to the private sector for short term game is driven by flawed neoclassical economic theory. It starts at central government but is insidious pervading every aspect of our lives for the worse.
I'm not sold that continuing to spend money on something that loses money is good for long term security.
It’s like running a business where someone else builds the roads and trains your people. Just artificial boundaries, externalising the “other” costs and telling yourself you make all the money.
But the NPC is no longer the provider. Schools -> Academy -> Super Rugby -> All Blacks is how it works now. The NPC is a relic of a bygone era and we need to recognise that and adapt accordingly.
I don't really agree with that mate, I think NPC is great stepping stone. I just looking at Grndley from my club here in Hawera, who has gone to Blues and Jacomb to the Blues after great NPC stuff. Last year we saw Rona do same. I think it's a thing we have that Aus really need, you can only do so much at academy level, but you need NPC as a finishing school for most players.
Mind you in saying that I NPC's biggest fan anyway, absolutely love it!@Dan54 said in NZR review:
@antipodean said in NZR review:
@kev said in NZR review:
@antipodean said in NZR review:
@kev said in NZR review:
@antipodean Good on them.Take away provincial unions, club rugby and NZRFU have nothing. Not sure what NZRPA’s problem is? The austerity mantra of cutting everything and selling assets to the private sector for short term game is driven by flawed neoclassical economic theory. It starts at central government but is insidious pervading every aspect of our lives for the worse.
I'm not sold that continuing to spend money on something that loses money is good for long term security.
It’s like running a business where someone else builds the roads and trains your people. Just artificial boundaries, externalising the “other” costs and telling yourself you make all the money.
But the NPC is no longer the provider. Schools -> Academy -> Super Rugby -> All Blacks is how it works now. The NPC is a relic of a bygone era and we need to recognise that and adapt accordingly.
I don't really agree with that mate, I think NPC is great stepping stone. I just looking at Grndley from my club here in Hawera, who has gone to Blues and Jacomb to the Blues after great NPC stuff. Last year we saw Rona do same. I think it's a thing we have that Aus really need, you can only do so much at academy level, but you need NPC as a finishing school for most players.
You just admitted that most SR players don't come from the NPC.
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@Dan54 said in NZR review:
@antipodean said in NZR review:
@kev said in NZR review:
@antipodean said in NZR review:
@kev said in NZR review:
@antipodean Good on them.Take away provincial unions, club rugby and NZRFU have nothing. Not sure what NZRPA’s problem is? The austerity mantra of cutting everything and selling assets to the private sector for short term game is driven by flawed neoclassical economic theory. It starts at central government but is insidious pervading every aspect of our lives for the worse.
I'm not sold that continuing to spend money on something that loses money is good for long term security.
It’s like running a business where someone else builds the roads and trains your people. Just artificial boundaries, externalising the “other” costs and telling yourself you make all the money.
But the NPC is no longer the provider. Schools -> Academy -> Super Rugby -> All Blacks is how it works now. The NPC is a relic of a bygone era and we need to recognise that and adapt accordingly.
I don't really agree with that mate, I think NPC is great stepping stone. I just looking at Grndley from my club here in Hawera, who has gone to Blues and Jacomb to the Blues after great NPC stuff. Last year we saw Rona do same. I think it's a thing we have that Aus really need, you can only do so much at academy level, but you need NPC as a finishing school for most players.
You just admitted that most SR players don't come from the NPC.
@antipodean said in NZR review:
@Dan54 said in NZR review:
@antipodean said in NZR review:
@kev said in NZR review:
@antipodean said in NZR review:
@kev said in NZR review:
@antipodean Good on them.Take away provincial unions, club rugby and NZRFU have nothing. Not sure what NZRPA’s problem is? The austerity mantra of cutting everything and selling assets to the private sector for short term game is driven by flawed neoclassical economic theory. It starts at central government but is insidious pervading every aspect of our lives for the worse.
I'm not sold that continuing to spend money on something that loses money is good for long term security.
It’s like running a business where someone else builds the roads and trains your people. Just artificial boundaries, externalising the “other” costs and telling yourself you make all the money.
But the NPC is no longer the provider. Schools -> Academy -> Super Rugby -> All Blacks is how it works now. The NPC is a relic of a bygone era and we need to recognise that and adapt accordingly.
I don't really agree with that mate, I think NPC is great stepping stone. I just looking at Grndley from my club here in Hawera, who has gone to Blues and Jacomb to the Blues after great NPC stuff. Last year we saw Rona do same. I think it's a thing we have that Aus really need, you can only do so much at academy level, but you need NPC as a finishing school for most players.
You just admitted that most SR players don't come from the NPC.
Did I? Grindley from my club is a Taranaki player, as is Jacomb and Rona. Not sure if you realise that Taranaki is a NPC team. When I sau Grindley was from my club, but he plays for TaranaKi!
