Rugby & Concussions / Head Injuries
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The governing body red cards players making high dangerous tackles, but more often than not does not remove the victim from the field for testing.
@reprobate you only need to look at the fiasco around Owen Farrell to see WR has a long way to go to get this right.
But yeah, that has been something I have often banged on about, if you are serious about player safety, and are willing to affect the whole game by issuing a red card for a 'serious' head contact, why is the person who has been hit in the head not taken off immediately for an HIA?
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Some more names in the legal action mentioned above:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/301020147/exall-blacks-carl-hayman-and-regan-king-listed-in-concussion-lawsuit-against-world-rugbyFormer All Blacks Carl Hayman and Regan King are among more than 200 named claimants suing their governing rugby bodies over neurological injuries.The list includes former Hurricanes lock Inoke Afeaki and former Chiefs and Blues prop Tevita Taumoepeau, both represented Tonga, and ex-Waikato representative Vaughan Going -
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Selected excerpts for those that don't have access:
Two-time Geelong premiership player Max Rooke’s horror run of concussions has been revealed in a new “disturbing” statement of claim in the current class action against the AFL.
Late on Wednesday, Margalit Injury Lawyers filed a statement of claim to Victoria’s Supreme Court which listed 23 instances in games where Rooke suffered “a significant head knock and/or suffered from, and/or showed symptoms consistent with, concussions, and/or suffered from loss of consciousness”.
The claim says as a result of the AFL’s negligence, Rooke sustained an acquired brain injury and psychiatric injury.
“In preparation for filing the statement of claim, Margalit Injury Lawyers have reviewed countless hours of footage of Max Rooke playing AFL football. The footage was distressing, not only because of the significant number of head knocks suffered by him, but because of the AFL’s clear lack of adequate protocols and protection of AFL players. We observed sickening knockouts suffered by Max, only for him to then be returned to play in the same game.”
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Billy Guyton, the former Blues and New Zealand Māori halfback who died last year aged 33, had a brain injury likely to be connected with repeated head knocks. The stunning diagnosis of stage 2 chronic traumatic encepahlopathy (CTE) was relayed to his family following extensive testing at Auckland's Neurological Foundation Human Brain Bank. It makes Guyton the first New Zealand-based professional rugby player to be diagnosed with the condition -
@gt12 said in Rugby & Concussions / Head Injuries:
Really worrying.
it is utter shit, and my heart goes out to Guyton and his family.
I do wonder if professionalism affects this these days. Making the decision to stop is harder if it is your job and source of financial income - and of course the hits are much bigger with fulltime athletes.
Honestly, I think head trauma is going to lead to deep transformations in many sports, not just Union. Not least of which is parents keeping their kids from playing at a young age to keep the risk down.
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Makes you think that the complaints about the new mouthguards being used etc is petty, if it in anyway helps stop this. I admit to knowing bugger all, and of course as @nzzp rightly says the hits in pro game are much bigger than what we got/get in park rugby.
I had one fella saying to me at Golf club last week (he used to play for Victoria over in Aus etc), ahhh the young players these days are soft etc we used to get kicked in head etc no probs. I pointed out that was really just imagination I thought, I played on and off from 7yo and stopped playing golden oldies at 58, and in all the time I played (generall as a lock when serious) I can honestly say, I never received or gave a kick to head, or even saw one that I can recall. No they not softer just play a hell of a higher collision game than when we played. -
@gt12 said in Rugby & Concussions / Head Injuries:
Really worrying.
it is utter shit, and my heart goes out to Guyton and his family.
I do wonder if professionalism affects this these days. Making the decision to stop is harder if it is your job and source of financial income - and of course the hits are much bigger with fulltime athletes.
Honestly, I think head trauma is going to lead to deep transformations in many sports, not just Union. Not least of which is parents keeping their kids from playing at a young age to keep the risk down.
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As my kids (and grandkids )are now adults etc, I often wonder how I would feel with kids playing contact sports, but honestly not sure I would change. Never pushed them into anything , and was maybe negligent in letting them have their head at sport and play. I actually know son got more injuries (head and others) playing outside of organised sport, ie ballrush, and with his cousins(we got a big family) where they seemed to basically see who could hurt each other the most(while killing themselves laughing). As I say don't know if that made me a shit parent or what, so can understand the quandry of parents. Might have rubbed off on grandson, my great grandson was at kindergarten, fell off something and knocked out tooth etc , when he picked him up in afternoon the kindy showed him an incident report and asked him if had any concerns/questions, his grandson said "no, he's a 4yo boy, and will no doubt do more things like this as he grows". Kindy was amazed he wasn't more upset, but as grandson said to me, he doesn't want his boy to get hurt, but can't keep him in cottonwool ,or find some else to blame when he's a normal kid.
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As a dad of two young boys, I have already got a bit of heat from the in-laws about contact sport. "You're not going to let them play rugby, are you?".
Now there's a bit of pearl clutching there, in particular from MIL. They had two daughters and contact sport was never really on the table for them back when they were growing up. That said if they end up with a concussion or two in the first few years I can only imagine the response.
It's been a tough road to hoe, and like Dan's grandson I'm trying very hard not to wrap them in cotton wool.
They will play rugby if they want to play rugby, but there's clearly much greater headwinds now than when I was growing up and contact sport was a very routine part of life. -
As a dad of two young boys, I have already got a bit of heat from the in-laws about contact sport. "You're not going to let them play rugby, are you?".
Now there's a bit of pearl clutching there, in particular from MIL. They had two daughters and contact sport was never really on the table for them back when they were growing up. That said if they end up with a concussion or two in the first few years I can only imagine the response.
It's been a tough road to hoe, and like Dan's grandson I'm trying very hard not to wrap them in cotton wool.
They will play rugby if they want to play rugby, but there's clearly much greater headwinds now than when I was growing up and contact sport was a very routine part of life.@barbarian said in Rugby & Concussions / Head Injuries:
They will play rugby if they want to play rugby, but there's clearly much greater headwinds now than when I was growing up and contact sport was a very routine part of life.
that's pretty much it. If they want to do it, go for it - but as an adult you also have to support good decisions around head knocks, etc.
At the lower levels I think Rugby is still a sensational sport. Great camaraderie, physical, fitness, a good aggression outlet and capable of glorious moments.
It's getting to the top levels where the physicality goes right up that the headaches (unintended pun) start.
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Arguably the biggest news of the week in terms of long lasting consequences. Do they deem the risk uninsurable, or just want out? I don't know
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Perhaps the solution is self-insurance with limits on remedies? I'm certain that would receive a sympathetic ear in legislative circles given:
a. Players choose to play contact sports knowing risks.
b. The public don't want to see sport destroyed by the litigious. -
Arguably the biggest news of the week in terms of long lasting consequences. Do they deem the risk uninsurable, or just want out? I don't know
@nzzp I guess as it is currently with Zurich, there is always other insurers, however I suspect the market will likely have a similar response.
I did find this part a bit odd:
Perhaps the most concerning voice of all comes from the insurance industry itself.
The Insurance Council of Australia (ICA) submitted to the 2023 Senate Inquiry that:
the availability of insurance, particularly public liability insurance, is critical to ongoing sports participation at all levels.
The ICA cautioned that for the vast majority of sporting clubs and organisations the “absence of the financial protection provided through insurance would mean they could no longer continue to operate”.
In sum, this means “no insurance, no sport”.
I expect this means they are looking at whether players could turn around and sue thier club/union after suffering a concussion injury, given Public Liability is different to the injury/income protection type cover the article alludes to.
Currently in NZ, NZR provides a suite of Liability products to all affiliated clubs, I expect player insurance (outside of ACC) is under a separate cover as well.
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@Jet that's an excellent and chilling podcast. The insights provided by Shane's partner Holly really ram it home.
