Super Rugby - The Future
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That's sort of how I got 8
And I liked a 15 team comp, seemed like a nice number. -
Can NZ afford 350 fully professional players? Because that's what 10 teams looks like
@mariner4life said in Super Rugby - The Future:
Can NZ afford 350 fully professional players? Because that's what 10 teams looks like
That's a really good point.
If we looked at Japan with 12 in their first division and based it off that, then:
Japan 12 (6 and 6)
NZ 8 (4 and 4)
OZ incl 2 PI sides 6 (3 and 3)Club Premier: 13 teams
Club Championship: 13 teams13 week round robin then 2-3 weeks of finals.
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Can NZ afford 350 fully professional players? Because that's what 10 teams looks like
@mariner4life said in Super Rugby - The Future:
Can NZ afford 350 fully professional players? Because that's what 10 teams looks like
if we're bringing Japan into the mix then there has to be more revenue streams to tap
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Whenever the idea of including Japan in a competition comes up, I think it's useful to try to separate how much money Japanese companies put into club salaries, operations, and facilities from what TV and other revenues the competition brings in. Not the easiest thing to find, but I've seen a figure for Japan League One 2022 revenue of US$25M [1], and an estimate of US$27M for 2023 in the NZ Herald (vague, and I can't find the article).
This doesn't seem like much money, and any more games will need to be weighed against other opportunities like more international games. I have a lot of doubt about Japanese club rugby being of much use to us.
@gt12 Can you find some better sources?
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Can NZ afford 350 fully professional players? Because that's what 10 teams looks like
@mariner4life said in Super Rugby - The Future:
Can NZ afford 350 fully professional players? Because that's what 10 teams looks like
Possibly. A 10 team comp would also mean an amateur NPC
There’s around $14 million spent in the current eco system that frees up.. some sponsors would drop out others would join. I would think the new comp would be more attractive
But yes 8 would be safer
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I am firmly of the opinion, and have said it numerous times, that the future of the NPC (ie provincial rugby) is as a fully amateur representative competition. This still costs money though. Flights and Accommodation at the very least.
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Put it on FTA TV and that, even reduced, broadcast deal should pay for most of it.
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I am firmly of the opinion, and have said it numerous times, that the future of the NPC (ie provincial rugby) is as a fully amateur representative competition. This still costs money though. Flights and Accommodation at the very least.
They've suggested regional pools to keep travel down. That'll probably happen. Long bus rides and people sleeping in their own beds more often
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Found this interesting as to how the Sky TV deal is structured:
Subsequently, NZR has agreed to pay $8m this year and next to Rugby Australia as a retrospective revenue sharing agreement now that they are joint-owners of Super Rugby Pacific and the latter was only able to strike a A$29m-a-year rights deal with Channel 9.
A longer-term revenue sharing formula between the two will be agreed for the next broadcast deal, which means that almost certainly given the low profile of rugby in Australia, New Zealand will end up subsidising its Ta$man partner.
Historically NZR has been able to limit the amount of Super Rugby and Rugby Championship money it shares with its Sanzaar partners, by working with Sky to inflate the book value of the NPC.
It is believed that the current deal has attributed a nominal value of $45m-a-year to the NPC, but NZR has endangered its ability to continue with this practice by wrongly telling its provincial unions in late March that Sky had indicated it wouldn’t bid for the competition’s rights in the next broadcast cycle.
“Future broadcast revenue values for the NPC will be significantly lower than previous broadcast agreements, on the basis that Sky TV is not expected to wish to bid for rights to broadcast every NPC / FPC [Farah Palmer Cup] game moving forward,” the communication said.
The information was wrong, Sky has not made any indication it will pull out, but it has told investors it wants to reduce production costs from 52 per cent of its total costs to 47 per cent, suggesting that the NPC may in future be filmed with fewer cameras and potentially with remote commentary, making it hard to credibly present an inflated value to Australia as a ploy to share less Super Rugby revenue.
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They've suggested regional pools to keep travel down. That'll probably happen. Long bus rides and people sleeping in their own beds more often
@Duluth said in Super Rugby - The Future:
They've suggested regional pools to keep travel down. That'll probably happen. Long bus rides and people sleeping in their own beds more often
fuck yes! bring back some of the fun element!
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SR squads currently have 38 players. Having only a single player contract to play in one competition will actually mean a salary cap can be enforced.
There are rules around travel in the NPC. IIRC teams travel by bus if it's 4 h or less. Only the Blues and Chiefs would fall into that category in SR.
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Whenever the idea of including Japan in a competition comes up, I think it's useful to try to separate how much money Japanese companies put into club salaries, operations, and facilities from what TV and other revenues the competition brings in. Not the easiest thing to find, but I've seen a figure for Japan League One 2022 revenue of US$25M [1], and an estimate of US$27M for 2023 in the NZ Herald (vague, and I can't find the article).
This doesn't seem like much money, and any more games will need to be weighed against other opportunities like more international games. I have a lot of doubt about Japanese club rugby being of much use to us.
@gt12 Can you find some better sources?
I can't find many better sources, but I think it is fair to say that even if the competition is in the black, the companies are putting up plenty above that.
In response to a question from Nikkei Business:
W杯の盛り上がりをラグビーチームの収益性改善にどうつなげていくと考えているか
How do you think the excitement of the World Cup will lead to improved profitability for rugby teams?Some of the answers from companies are pretty funny as it shows that these are primarily sponsorship activities. Three of the top four just ignored it, and I like this from Kobe:
そもそもチーム運営は収益事業ではないので、収益改善には結びつかない。In the first place, managing a team is not a revenue-generating business, so it does not lead to improved profitability.
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I can't find many better sources, but I think it is fair to say that even if the competition is in the black, the companies are putting up plenty above that.
In response to a question from Nikkei Business:
W杯の盛り上がりをラグビーチームの収益性改善にどうつなげていくと考えているか
How do you think the excitement of the World Cup will lead to improved profitability for rugby teams?Some of the answers from companies are pretty funny as it shows that these are primarily sponsorship activities. Three of the top four just ignored it, and I like this from Kobe:
そもそもチーム運営は収益事業ではないので、収益改善には結びつかない。In the first place, managing a team is not a revenue-generating business, so it does not lead to improved profitability.
@gt12 do you think there are japanese companies that might not be in a position to have their own team like current japanese ones...but would be down for backing an existing team from NZ as a major sponsor playing against teams owned by the competitors?
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@gt12 do you think there are japanese companies that might not be in a position to have their own team like current japanese ones...but would be down for backing an existing team from NZ as a major sponsor playing against teams owned by the competitors?
@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby - The Future:
@gt12 do you think there are japanese companies that might not be in a position to have their own team like current japanese ones...but would be down for backing an existing team from NZ as a major sponsor playing against teams owned by the competitors?
If we were playing in their competition I imagine that the sponsorship opportunities would be pretty good.
We already have some firms that sponsor the ABs who might jump to Super teams in that case as well.
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Whenever the idea of including Japan in a competition comes up, I think it's useful to try to separate how much money Japanese companies put into club salaries, operations, and facilities from what TV and other revenues the competition brings in. Not the easiest thing to find, but I've seen a figure for Japan League One 2022 revenue of US$25M [1], and an estimate of US$27M for 2023 in the NZ Herald (vague, and I can't find the article).
This doesn't seem like much money, and any more games will need to be weighed against other opportunities like more international games. I have a lot of doubt about Japanese club rugby being of much use to us.
@gt12 Can you find some better sources?
@Tim said in Super Rugby - The Future:
Whenever the idea of including Japan in a competition comes up, I think it's useful to try to separate how much money Japanese companies put into club salaries, operations, and facilities from what TV and other revenues the competition brings in.
Japan has the largest single country viewing record for a rugby game of around 60M or so.
If the product is good, it should (:D) generate good revenue.
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@Tim said in Super Rugby - The Future:
Whenever the idea of including Japan in a competition comes up, I think it's useful to try to separate how much money Japanese companies put into club salaries, operations, and facilities from what TV and other revenues the competition brings in.
Japan has the largest single country viewing record for a rugby game of around 60M or so.
If the product is good, it should (:D) generate good revenue.
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@gt12 said in Super Rugby - The Future:
Without really thinking, I wonder whether we should (1) add some Japanese teams to a cross-over super competition that acts as a club Championship / Plate (maybe we might need a bowl) with teams seeded based on their J-League and home competition results. That would be 'Super' rugby in my model and teams would play with their 'home' teams with quite big squads.
In place of NPC, I would (2) add two-three super teams (which would be the shit fight) and play a local competition with our 'super' sides , under which I'd run 'reserve' super sides, and players could go up and down as needed. Australia could do the same thing and I would suggest they take on Moana Pasifika to add teams. This competition would be the qualification for which division you play in for Super rugby club championship.
I think we are drifting towards something a bit like that.
With possible Japanese involvement I wonder if a fix for Moana Pasifika is to resurrect the old Pacific Barbarians concept? It was based in Singapore and coached by Umaga. No one watches them in NZ it's a complete failure. Give them a home, a good stadium and better access to sponsorship money.
The Baabaas didn't do great either but they had no meaningful rugby
@Duluth said in Super Rugby - The Future:
I think we are drifting towards something a bit like that.
With possible Japanese involvement I wonder if a fix for Moana Pasifika is to resurrect the old Pacific Barbarians concept? It was based in Singapore and coached by Umaga. No one watches them in NZ it's a complete failure. Give them a home, a good stadium and better access to sponsorship money.
I hope super rugby stays more or less like it is. But with a focus on more even teams
But the Rebel get the boot and then what. Aust still will have one too many teams. So, they will always struggle still. But not by so much
Also, MP is a complete disaster. Maybe this is one option for them
They move to the Aust conference based in Melbourne. Call them the Pacific Rebels say. But helped by NZR for three years as follows
-10 NZ players can play for them and still be eligible for the ABs. Ardie might be interested in joining his brother as one example
-NZ pays a part of their salary (say $50,000 per player)
-Aust have no players who will be eligible for Aust's test side. As they will struggle to support 4 teams
-NZR also appoint the PR managersAn Argie team joins the NZ pool
If after three years PR are still rubbish then kick them out
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@gt12 said in Super Rugby - The Future:
Without really thinking, I wonder whether we should (1) add some Japanese teams to a cross-over super competition that acts as a club Championship / Plate (maybe we might need a bowl) with teams seeded based on their J-League and home competition results. That would be 'Super' rugby in my model and teams would play with their 'home' teams with quite big squads.
In place of NPC, I would (2) add two-three super teams (which would be the shit fight) and play a local competition with our 'super' sides , under which I'd run 'reserve' super sides, and players could go up and down as needed. Australia could do the same thing and I would suggest they take on Moana Pasifika to add teams. This competition would be the qualification for which division you play in for Super rugby club championship.
I think we are drifting towards something a bit like that.
With possible Japanese involvement I wonder if a fix for Moana Pasifika is to resurrect the old Pacific Barbarians concept? It was based in Singapore and coached by Umaga. No one watches them in NZ it's a complete failure. Give them a home, a good stadium and better access to sponsorship money.
The Baabaas didn't do great either but they had no meaningful rugby
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@Tim said in Super Rugby - The Future:
@Duluth Still a long flight from Auckland (10h 45m).
i use to really worry about that stuff.... mrs womble has a new job where she manages to global team so has done 6 trips to to the US and/or UK in the last six months, and she has to walk in and do her job which is a damn site less fun than playing rugby and whilst she'll be getting paid more than some...its definitely less than lots of others...stuff em, i'd love to be playing rugby for a living
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@Tim Most Euro sides would do longer when playing in Capetown and vice versa?
