NZR review
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@Machpants said in NZR review:
Fight, fight, fight, fight....
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/sport/517494/lies-provincial-unions-hit-back-at-players-association-in-governance-stoushWell it's easy to see what is happening, Nicholls is saying either our way or we will wreak havoc in the game. I not sure if threats they making is from an organisation that should have the only say in how game is run?
@Dan54 said in NZR review:
Well it's easy to see what is happening, Nicholls is saying either our way or we will wreak havoc in the game. I not sure if threats they making is from an organisation that should have the only say in how game is run?
Both Dame Patsy and RN have both behaved like entitled children. Whereas the PU are looking OK based on media reporting. RN especially comes across very poorly.
Poole described the Players' Association's threat to split with NZR if governance reforms don't go ahead as needless and unhelpful.
"Irresponsible is a word that comes to mind. Unnecessary is another one. It smacks of 'if I don't get my own way I'm going to take my toys, my bat and my ball and go somewhere else'. It's an unnecessary reaction and in our view an overaction."
The New Zealand Rugby board, led by chair Dame Patsy Reddy, are committed to proposal one, with Reddy earlier saying she would resign if the plan wasn't accepted at the SGM.
While not certain, Poole believes the PUs' proposal will prove more popular at next week's SGM.
and this
However, Wellington Rugby chair Russell Poole said claims that the PUs' proposal doesn't align with the principles of the independent report weren't true.
"We have openly taken on board the ideal of an independently selected, appointed board. So anything that says something else is absolutely untrue and that's the worst part of the NZRPA document yesterday, it has so many lies in it, so many things that are factually incorrect.
"There is no difference between proposal one and proposal two on how people are elected and the process that they go through.
"The difference is that in proposal two, the provincial unions have a line in there that says that three members on the NZR board at any given time must have spent some time on a provincial rugby board. Given the fact that one of the roles of that NZR board is to look after the game on behalf of the 150,000 participants, and that's just the players, not the infrastructure and other people that go around that, I don't think that's unfair."
Nichol and the NZRPA believe the game in this country is struggling and he told RNZ the provincial unions' proposal was unacceptable.
"We all accepted the report, we all accepted the findings that the governance model was not fit for purpose. To get to this stage and then turn around and say 'no we just want to keep the status quo', we can't afford to do that.
"The game's in trouble, it needs support, it needs help, it needs expertise and we need an independent board."
Poole said the PUs had tried to speak with the NZRPA about their concerns.
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@mariner4life I hear the new franchise "The Sheriffs" has already been registered!
@Paekakboyz Don't forget the "Posse", and the "Freemen on the land".
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@Duluth said in NZR review:
@Winger said in NZR review:
@Duluth said in NZR review:
@Winger said in NZR review:
@Duluth said in NZR review:
@Winger said in NZR review:
A professional proposal
They haven't finished writing it yet. Very professional.
Ops. I was referring to Pilkington. I don't know about the PU proposal (I haven't seen it). I was just comparing the 2 that have been published
Pilkington seems VG to me. Esp compared to NZR
You seem a bit confused
Why? (the comment you referenced was 19 days back)
Nothing has changed about the proposals in 19 days
You support and oppose one proposal. You support and haven't read the other
But I'm referring to the process of the people making this decision. I might agree with Rob. But I'm not and he's not some God like infallible superman.
Let the vote take place. And trust the process and see it out. Without these childish threats. And accept that sometimes you win. And sometimes not. And sometimes you get only a % of what you won't. That's life.
@Winger said in NZR review:
@Duluth said in NZR review:
@Winger said in NZR review:
@Duluth said in NZR review:
@Winger said in NZR review:
@Duluth said in NZR review:
@Winger said in NZR review:
A professional proposal
They haven't finished writing it yet. Very professional.
Ops. I was referring to Pilkington. I don't know about the PU proposal (I haven't seen it). I was just comparing the 2 that have been published
Pilkington seems VG to me. Esp compared to NZR
You seem a bit confused
Why? (the comment you referenced was 19 days back)
Nothing has changed about the proposals in 19 days
You support and oppose one proposal. You support and haven't read the other
But I'm referring to the process of the people making this decision. I might agree with Rob. But I'm not and he's not some God like infallible superman.
Let the vote take place. And trust the process and see it out. Without these childish threats. And accept that sometimes you win. And sometimes not. And sometimes you get only a % of what you won't. That's life.
Better summary
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@Winger said in NZR review:
@Duluth said in NZR review:
@Winger said in NZR review:
@Duluth said in NZR review:
@Winger said in NZR review:
@Duluth said in NZR review:
@Winger said in NZR review:
A professional proposal
They haven't finished writing it yet. Very professional.
Ops. I was referring to Pilkington. I don't know about the PU proposal (I haven't seen it). I was just comparing the 2 that have been published
Pilkington seems VG to me. Esp compared to NZR
You seem a bit confused
Why? (the comment you referenced was 19 days back)
Nothing has changed about the proposals in 19 days
You support and oppose one proposal. You support and haven't read the other
But I'm referring to the process of the people making this decision. I might agree with Rob. But I'm not and he's not some God like infallible superman.
Let the vote take place. And trust the process and see it out. Without these childish threats. And accept that sometimes you win. And sometimes not. And sometimes you get only a % of what you won't. That's life.
Better summary
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Unless I'm mistaken, the NZRPA represents professional players on NZ, Super, Provincial, and U20s contracts.
The most recent available agreement is here.
I'd be interested in a lawyer's interpretation of the NZRPA's position as I can't see how it aligns with the text of the contract.
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https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/350286296/new-zealand-rugby-says-nzrpa-threat-wont-impact-all-blacks
New Zealand Rugby has attempted to play down the prospect of disruption to the All Blacks’ season following an extraordinary letter from the New Zealand Rugby Players’ Association (NZRPA) that has threatened to split the game in two.
The NZRPA letter - signed by David Kirk, Richie McCaw, Tammi Wilson Uluinayau, Sam Cane, Scott Curry, Les Elder, Sarah Hirini, Ruby Tui, Patrick Tuipulotu, Samuel Whitelock, Will Jordan, Scott Ireland and Rob Nichol - said that professional players would simply refuse to recognise NZ Rugby’s right to govern the game if its preferred proposal is blocked.
However, the split in game throughout the country has been highlighted by Taranaki supporting the NZRPA-backed proposal, and sharply criticising the alternative put forward by a group of provincial unions including Wellington.
In an email to TRFU stakeholders, chair Dan Radcliffe wrote: “Having observed the process for forming this proposal, we do not believe this proposal is anywhere near robust enough - it is a compromised version of the recommendations made by the review panel.
More of that Taranaki letter
..we do not believe this proposal is adequate to form a board structure for what is a $3.5 billion organisation. This proposal requires three Provincial Union members to have seats on the NZ Rugby board. While this is good in theory, this structure is not serving us well as a Provincial Union, as the calibre of the candidates we are putting forward as provincial unions, is simply not high enough. Because of this, we are struggling to attract high calibre independents to work alongside the PU reps, and the board is not performing at the level that is required. As a result, the whole organisation is performing well below where it should be and the game at all levels is suffering. -
If you look at the NZRPA board the one independent is an ex-Black Fern so they aren't exactly doing what they preach. Rob Nichol is a former police officer and accountant. The last thing we need is a NZR board full of the latter.
@Bovidae said in NZR review:
The last thing we need is a NZR board full of the latter
oi!
nah, wait, fair
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am i the only one that is starting to feel "hurry up and burn it to the ground so something better can be reborn"?
The long slow death is getting old and im not sure a million bandaids and some duct tape is going to actually fix everything
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am i the only one that is starting to feel "hurry up and burn it to the ground so something better can be reborn"?
The long slow death is getting old and im not sure a million bandaids and some duct tape is going to actually fix everything
@Kiwiwomble said in NZR review:
am i the only one that is starting to feel "hurry up and burn it to the ground so something better can be reborn"?
The long slow death is getting old and im not sure a million bandaids and some duct tape is going to actually fix everything
It's called the Pilkington Report
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Surely there's a Karl Pilkington joke just waiting to be used given how things are tracking.
@KiwiMurph said in NZR review:
Surely there's a Karl Pilkington joke just waiting to be used given how things are tracking.
Well, Karl did love to talk about when things go "tits up".
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Surely there's a Karl Pilkington joke just waiting to be used given how things are tracking.
@KiwiMurph said in NZR review:
Surely there's a Karl Pilkington joke just waiting to be used given how things are tracking.
An Idiot (On) A-board?
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More of that Taranaki letter
..we do not believe this proposal is adequate to form a board structure for what is a $3.5 billion organisation. This proposal requires three Provincial Union members to have seats on the NZ Rugby board. While this is good in theory, this structure is not serving us well as a Provincial Union, as the calibre of the candidates we are putting forward as provincial unions, is simply not high enough. Because of this, we are struggling to attract high calibre independents to work alongside the PU reps, and the board is not performing at the level that is required. As a result, the whole organisation is performing well below where it should be and the game at all levels is suffering.@Duluth said in NZR review:
Because of this, we are struggling to attract high calibre independents to work alongside the PU reps, and the board is not performing at the level that is required. As a result, the whole organisation is performing well below where it should be and the game at all levels is suffering.
So, there are currently 6 out of 9 independent board members. The result. A Board not fit for purpose
The solution. Make it 9 out of 9 and somehow magically dud board appointments will somehow turn into great ones.
The Taranaki union (or chair Dan Radcliffe) seems to have these independents on high chairs that are in the clouds. And even though it hasn't worked it doesn't deter them. Of course, there's a reason. The three other board members stink the place out. And are stopping great independents from jumping on Board
FFS.
This comment is insulting to just about everyone involved with NZR.
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@Duluth said in NZR review:
Because of this, we are struggling to attract high calibre independents to work alongside the PU reps, and the board is not performing at the level that is required. As a result, the whole organisation is performing well below where it should be and the game at all levels is suffering.
So, there are currently 6 out of 9 independent board members. The result. A Board not fit for purpose
The solution. Make it 9 out of 9 and somehow magically dud board appointments will somehow turn into great ones.
The Taranaki union (or chair Dan Radcliffe) seems to have these independents on high chairs that are in the clouds. And even though it hasn't worked it doesn't deter them. Of course, there's a reason. The three other board members stink the place out. And are stopping great independents from jumping on Board
FFS.
This comment is insulting to just about everyone involved with NZR.
@Winger said in NZR review:
@Duluth said in NZR review:
Because of this, we are struggling to attract high calibre independents to work alongside the PU reps, and the board is not performing at the level that is required. As a result, the whole organisation is performing well below where it should be and the game at all levels is suffering.
So, there are currently 6 out of 9 independent board members. The result. A Board not fit for purpose
The solution. Make it 9 out of 9 and somehow magically dud board appointments will somehow turn into great ones.
The Taranaki union (or chair Dan Radcliffe) seems to have these independents on high chairs that are in the clouds. And even though it hasn't worked it doesn't deter them. Of course, there's a reason. The three other board members stink the place out. And are stopping great independents from jumping on Board
FFS.
This comment is insulting to just about everyone involved with NZR.
That is, unsurprisingly, a selective version of what the Pilkington Review actually says. NZR is a professional organisation and hence requires professional expertise in running and managing it. As such 'NZR Board members should have the following:
• Sound commercial skills
• Financial acumen (all directors need a level of competency)
• Deep knowledge of rugby from the community level through to the professional game
• Experienced leadership capability.'As noted by @Tim that kinda rules out Kevin Poole's input...
The ability for the PUs specifically to have a say still exists in the Stakeholder Council, who can influence or sit on the Appointments Panel for the Board. Also none of them are precluded from doing something else and then seeking appointment to the NZR board anyway...
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This was the number of votes each provincial union had at last year's NZR AGM. It should be pretty close, if not exactly the same, to the number of votes each provincial union will have at the EGM on the 30th.
If there are 90 votes as last year, then 60 will be needed to pass either proposal.
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The GOAT speaks
“It is not like we are trying to push our own agenda. This is something that people who have heard from all of the game – every stakeholder – have come up with and is what they think is best.
“That’s the bit people have to remember – all the feedback from everyone is put into this [Pilkington Review report] and they have come back with their findings.
This point is very pertinent, why only PU board experience
“But you start eliminating people who might have had different experiences. People who might have been on the board of a Super Rugby club or done other things who might add just as much expertise as someone who has provincial union experience.
And indeed
“And at the end of the day, the provincial unions still have the ultimate say. They can remove the board if they are not happy. They still have that right.
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The GOAT speaks
“It is not like we are trying to push our own agenda. This is something that people who have heard from all of the game – every stakeholder – have come up with and is what they think is best.
“That’s the bit people have to remember – all the feedback from everyone is put into this [Pilkington Review report] and they have come back with their findings.
This point is very pertinent, why only PU board experience
“But you start eliminating people who might have had different experiences. People who might have been on the board of a Super Rugby club or done other things who might add just as much expertise as someone who has provincial union experience.
And indeed
“And at the end of the day, the provincial unions still have the ultimate say. They can remove the board if they are not happy. They still have that right.
@Machpants said in NZR review:
This point is very pertinent, why only PU board experience
it isn't. The PU want 3 out of 9 to have PU experience. This doesn't seem unreasonable to me
McCaw comes across as being a bit naive. Give up their direct seats on the board and they effectively give away their power. Why should they do this.
