Otago 2024
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@frugby said in Otago 2024:
@SouthernMann said in Otago 2024:
I hope we play players in position, instead of trying to get the best players on the paddock. We also see this as an opportunity to give young guys in our system a run. We have our already confirmed 27 players, the you guys I'd like to see added are Ratcliffe, Rangitutia, Pledger, Lolofie, Toleafoa (could replace Fischli). Reports are there are a few more lads who are a year or two away.
Rotation is what I want to see, not consistent selection.
There is a balance. Millar though, if he is the best 10, then he plays 10. This is not have a go rugby... Faleafaga's pace and playmaking still means you want to get him on the field, so therefore could more than adequately play 12... if that means we have to shoehorn someone like Gilbert to the wing, so be it.
Likewise, I don't see much point in picking a substandard lock as opposed to picking an extra loosie, when we have real depth and quality there.
What I don't really want to see is Whaanga/Timu on the wing, because they simply don't have the speed to play there.
Nah I disagree. It is a learn about your players level.
Millar and Faleafaga share the 10 jersey. There is little between them and they both should get the opportunity to grow and develop.
Midfield is shared between Te Hiwi/Timu/Whaanga/Gilbert and probably Leslie, seeing as he is contracted.
We play specialist wingers on the wing. Nareki/Asi/Rangitutia. We will see Whaanga on the wing though. I'm sure of it.
No issue with Haig at lock, he is fine at Super level. However, he is mainly a blindside and should get first go there. He should share that role with Sanders.
Stoddart and Lio-Willie should be the men at 8.
Openside is another position where I want to see specialists. Taylor or Ratcliffe.
@SouthernMann said in Otago 2024:
@frugby said in Otago 2024:
@SouthernMann said in Otago 2024:
I hope we play players in position, instead of trying to get the best players on the paddock. We also see this as an opportunity to give young guys in our system a run. We have our already confirmed 27 players, the you guys I'd like to see added are Ratcliffe, Rangitutia, Pledger, Lolofie, Toleafoa (could replace Fischli). Reports are there are a few more lads who are a year or two away.
Rotation is what I want to see, not consistent selection.
There is a balance. Millar though, if he is the best 10, then he plays 10. This is not have a go rugby... Faleafaga's pace and playmaking still means you want to get him on the field, so therefore could more than adequately play 12... if that means we have to shoehorn someone like Gilbert to the wing, so be it.
Likewise, I don't see much point in picking a substandard lock as opposed to picking an extra loosie, when we have real depth and quality there.
What I don't really want to see is Whaanga/Timu on the wing, because they simply don't have the speed to play there.
Nah I disagree. It is a learn about your players level.
Millar and Faleafaga share the 10 jersey. There is little between them and they both should get the opportunity to grow and develop.
Midfield is shared between Te Hiwi/Timu/Whaanga/Gilbert and probably Leslie, seeing as he is contracted.
We play specialist wingers on the wing. Nareki/Asi/Rangitutia. We will see Whaanga on the wing though. I'm sure of it.
No issue with Haig at lock, he is fine at Super level. However, he is mainly a blindside and should get first go there. He should share that role with Sanders.
Stoddart and Lio-Willie should be the men at 8.
Openside is another position where I want to see specialists. Taylor or Ratcliffe.
With the squad at hand - particularly the forwards, Otago should be trying to win the NPC... Anything less than the quarters is an absolutely abject failure. To do that, consistency in selection is needed, and you also need your best players playing.
With the nature of the NPC, particularly through the middle of the year, rotation is needed, and the short nature means that changes happen when results aren't working, I am cool with that, but for example, if Millar starts the first game, plays a blinder against Southland and we win, he should keep the jersey - and he should pretty much keep it until he deserves to lose it - or vice-versa for Faleafaga.
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I hope we play players in position, instead of trying to get the best players on the paddock. We also see this as an opportunity to give young guys in our system a run. We have our already confirmed 27 players, the you guys I'd like to see added are Ratcliffe, Rangitutia, Pledger, Lolofie, Toleafoa (could replace Fischli). Reports are there are a few more lads who are a year or two away.
Rotation is what I want to see, not consistent selection.
@SouthernMann said in Otago 2024:
I hope we play players in position, instead of trying to get the best players on the paddock. We also see this as an opportunity to give young guys in our system a run. We have our already confirmed 27 players, the you guys I'd like to see added are Ratcliffe, Rangitutia, Pledger, Lolofie, Toleafoa (could replace Fischli). Reports are there are a few more lads who are a year or two away.
Rotation is what I want to see, not consistent selection.
Hopefully we see Pledger in the system. Would hate to have another Hotham situation.
Would like to see him in over Kieran McClea who has been away in the MLR.
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@SouthernMann said in Otago 2024:
I hope we play players in position, instead of trying to get the best players on the paddock. We also see this as an opportunity to give young guys in our system a run. We have our already confirmed 27 players, the you guys I'd like to see added are Ratcliffe, Rangitutia, Pledger, Lolofie, Toleafoa (could replace Fischli). Reports are there are a few more lads who are a year or two away.
Rotation is what I want to see, not consistent selection.
Hopefully we see Pledger in the system. Would hate to have another Hotham situation.
Would like to see him in over Kieran McClea who has been away in the MLR.
@Landers92 said in Otago 2024:
@SouthernMann said in Otago 2024:
I hope we play players in position, instead of trying to get the best players on the paddock. We also see this as an opportunity to give young guys in our system a run. We have our already confirmed 27 players, the you guys I'd like to see added are Ratcliffe, Rangitutia, Pledger, Lolofie, Toleafoa (could replace Fischli). Reports are there are a few more lads who are a year or two away.
Rotation is what I want to see, not consistent selection.
Hopefully we see Pledger in the system. Would hate to have another Hotham situation.
Would like to see him in over Kieran McClea who has been away in the MLR.
Hotham was a weird one for Otago and the Landers. Clearly more talented than Hastie and Arscott, yet it felt ike he was passed over because they were local kids. I remember an article where Otago stated they looked at the three halfbacks and passed him over. I think there will be a drive for Pledger to be kept around. A real system kid. All Otago rep teams, all NZ rep teams. They need to map our his future for him.
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@Landers92 said in Otago 2024:
@SouthernMann said in Otago 2024:
I hope we play players in position, instead of trying to get the best players on the paddock. We also see this as an opportunity to give young guys in our system a run. We have our already confirmed 27 players, the you guys I'd like to see added are Ratcliffe, Rangitutia, Pledger, Lolofie, Toleafoa (could replace Fischli). Reports are there are a few more lads who are a year or two away.
Rotation is what I want to see, not consistent selection.
Hopefully we see Pledger in the system. Would hate to have another Hotham situation.
Would like to see him in over Kieran McClea who has been away in the MLR.
Hotham was a weird one for Otago and the Landers. Clearly more talented than Hastie and Arscott, yet it felt ike he was passed over because they were local kids. I remember an article where Otago stated they looked at the three halfbacks and passed him over. I think there will be a drive for Pledger to be kept around. A real system kid. All Otago rep teams, all NZ rep teams. They need to map our his future for him.
@SouthernMann said in Otago 2024:
@Landers92 said in Otago 2024:
@SouthernMann said in Otago 2024:
I hope we play players in position, instead of trying to get the best players on the paddock. We also see this as an opportunity to give young guys in our system a run. We have our already confirmed 27 players, the you guys I'd like to see added are Ratcliffe, Rangitutia, Pledger, Lolofie, Toleafoa (could replace Fischli). Reports are there are a few more lads who are a year or two away.
Rotation is what I want to see, not consistent selection.
Hopefully we see Pledger in the system. Would hate to have another Hotham situation.
Would like to see him in over Kieran McClea who has been away in the MLR.
Hotham was a weird one for Otago and the Landers. Clearly more talented than Hastie and Arscott, yet it felt ike he was passed over because they were local kids. I remember an article where Otago stated they looked at the three halfbacks and passed him over. I think there will be a drive for Pledger to be kept around. A real system kid. All Otago rep teams, all NZ rep teams. They need to map our his future for him.
Slightly different situations... I think Fakatava was banked on as being the ABs next #9 - that has since been curtailed by the double ACL issue. Hastie was/is also very highly rated - was a starting halfback for the U20s, but has struggled badly with injuries himself. I think Otago definitely have the blinkers on when it comes to sticking with local guys, but the Highlanders were probably a victim of circumstance that the Crusaders had a clearer opening at halfback.
With Pledger, it will work itself out, because I'd say there is a reasonable chance Fakatava heads offshore after the 2025 season, which will open a spot in the Highlanders squad. It may force Hastie/Arscott down to Southland, or potentially Hastie could even try his luck in Australia.
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@SouthernMann said in Otago 2024:
@Landers92 said in Otago 2024:
@SouthernMann said in Otago 2024:
I hope we play players in position, instead of trying to get the best players on the paddock. We also see this as an opportunity to give young guys in our system a run. We have our already confirmed 27 players, the you guys I'd like to see added are Ratcliffe, Rangitutia, Pledger, Lolofie, Toleafoa (could replace Fischli). Reports are there are a few more lads who are a year or two away.
Rotation is what I want to see, not consistent selection.
Hopefully we see Pledger in the system. Would hate to have another Hotham situation.
Would like to see him in over Kieran McClea who has been away in the MLR.
Hotham was a weird one for Otago and the Landers. Clearly more talented than Hastie and Arscott, yet it felt ike he was passed over because they were local kids. I remember an article where Otago stated they looked at the three halfbacks and passed him over. I think there will be a drive for Pledger to be kept around. A real system kid. All Otago rep teams, all NZ rep teams. They need to map our his future for him.
Slightly different situations... I think Fakatava was banked on as being the ABs next #9 - that has since been curtailed by the double ACL issue. Hastie was/is also very highly rated - was a starting halfback for the U20s, but has struggled badly with injuries himself. I think Otago definitely have the blinkers on when it comes to sticking with local guys, but the Highlanders were probably a victim of circumstance that the Crusaders had a clearer opening at halfback.
With Pledger, it will work itself out, because I'd say there is a reasonable chance Fakatava heads offshore after the 2025 season, which will open a spot in the Highlanders squad. It may force Hastie/Arscott down to Southland, or potentially Hastie could even try his luck in Australia.
@frugby said in Otago 2024:
@SouthernMann said in Otago 2024:
@Landers92 said in Otago 2024:
@SouthernMann said in Otago 2024:
With Pledger, it will work itself out, because I'd say there is a reasonable chance Fakatava heads offshore after the 2025 season, which will open a spot in the Highlanders squad.
Based off what? Fakatava is still only 24. Had a down season yes but he’s still there or there abouts in halfback discussions for higher honours. Be highly surprised if he left after next season and really hope he doesn’t.
Agree about the Hastie point. He’s better than Arscott imo so hopefully he can stay healthy and have a good npc season. Will be a good battle to watch and if they have Pledger nipping at their heals, then even better.
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@SouthernMann said in Otago 2024:
@Landers92 said in Otago 2024:
@SouthernMann said in Otago 2024:
I hope we play players in position, instead of trying to get the best players on the paddock. We also see this as an opportunity to give young guys in our system a run. We have our already confirmed 27 players, the you guys I'd like to see added are Ratcliffe, Rangitutia, Pledger, Lolofie, Toleafoa (could replace Fischli). Reports are there are a few more lads who are a year or two away.
Rotation is what I want to see, not consistent selection.
Hopefully we see Pledger in the system. Would hate to have another Hotham situation.
Would like to see him in over Kieran McClea who has been away in the MLR.
Hotham was a weird one for Otago and the Landers. Clearly more talented than Hastie and Arscott, yet it felt ike he was passed over because they were local kids. I remember an article where Otago stated they looked at the three halfbacks and passed him over. I think there will be a drive for Pledger to be kept around. A real system kid. All Otago rep teams, all NZ rep teams. They need to map our his future for him.
Slightly different situations... I think Fakatava was banked on as being the ABs next #9 - that has since been curtailed by the double ACL issue. Hastie was/is also very highly rated - was a starting halfback for the U20s, but has struggled badly with injuries himself. I think Otago definitely have the blinkers on when it comes to sticking with local guys, but the Highlanders were probably a victim of circumstance that the Crusaders had a clearer opening at halfback.
With Pledger, it will work itself out, because I'd say there is a reasonable chance Fakatava heads offshore after the 2025 season, which will open a spot in the Highlanders squad. It may force Hastie/Arscott down to Southland, or potentially Hastie could even try his luck in Australia.
@frugby said in Otago 2024:
I think Fakatava was banked on as being the ABs next #9 - that has since been curtailed by the double ACL issue.
Still quite possible that he hits real form next year. Maybe with better coaching? He certainly has the skills.
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@frugby said in Otago 2024:
I think Fakatava was banked on as being the ABs next #9 - that has since been curtailed by the double ACL issue.
Still quite possible that he hits real form next year. Maybe with better coaching? He certainly has the skills.
@Tim said in Otago 2024:
@frugby said in Otago 2024:
I think Fakatava was banked on as being the ABs next #9 - that has since been curtailed by the double ACL issue.
Still quite possible that he hits real form next year. Maybe with better coaching? He certainly has the skills.
I hope so, but feels like the Abs might have shown their hand.
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@frugby said in Otago 2024:
I think Fakatava was banked on as being the ABs next #9 - that has since been curtailed by the double ACL issue.
Still quite possible that he hits real form next year. Maybe with better coaching? He certainly has the skills.
@Tim Hmmm I'm starting to get Augustine Pulu vibes from the guy. A bit of a highlights reel player and and I've always thought that he overplays his hand too much in games. I hope he does become the player everyone thought he would become and would love to be wrong about the guy, but the more the years go by, it feels like the further he gets overtaken by others.
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Paul Dwyer caught up with Hunter Fahey (Dunedin club affiliated, Southland provincial) and Finn Hurley. Fahey talked about the eight Southlanders in the Dunedin run acadamey. Hurley mentioned Jake Te Hiwi has a broken wrist and James Arscott is on holiday in Europe. Highlanders are slowly feeding back into club rugby. Nareki, Hurley, Umaga-Jensen, Wingham and Hastie are all listed for this weekend. Still a couple of teams to be put in. Top of the table clash this weekend. With Dunedin playing Green Island. What I keep thinking about with the Southland based acadamey, is surely we are going to get to a point where we amalgamate the premier comps in Southland and Dunedin. Make it a top draw comp. Get the players to indicate who they want to play for, and have more teams in the comp. With Te Hiwi injured with a broken hand, it might ensure Otago takes back Umaga-Jensen for the provincial season. Here is the catch up
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i dont like the idea of the southland acadamy in dunedin, that seems like the kind of high performance focus and spending unions have been condemned for, if people want to live in dunedin then they can play for otago
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i dont like the idea of the southland acadamy in dunedin, that seems like the kind of high performance focus and spending unions have been condemned for, if people want to live in dunedin then they can play for otago
@Kiwiwomble said in Otago 2024:
i dont like the idea of the southland acadamy in dunedin, that seems like the kind of high performance focus and spending unions have been condemned for, if people want to live in dunedin then they can play for otago
No issue with a small acadamey of players being based out of Dunedin. Players like Josh Augistine and Tayne Harvey may not have come down to the Highlanders Acadamey, if they knew they would be in the Otago logjam. These guys might get on the paddock for Southland this year, and it is great they are able to maintain their university lifestyles in Dunedin. Thay is a win. Across the two southern teams our goal should be to have to top 46 players on the field during the provincial season. I'd much rather see kids playing for Southland than sitting on the bemch for Otago B. Southland kids should also be able to play for Southland, if they want to, even if they are living in Dunedin. We aren't talking about a high investment from Southland, from what Fahey says it is a couple of gym sessions a week, and a training session at Shark Park.
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thats literally what unions have been condemned for, spending money on making the top team competitive without using the local grass roots clubs to do it. and we're not talking about luring marquee signing down....guys that should and could be playing club rugby in southland if they want to play for southland
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We are talking low cost players, who will either be on nil contracts or low level ones mainly held by the Highlanders. Harvey, Augistine, Rutledge (who played most of the season for Kaik Colts), Caleb Williams out of Southland Boys, Pautawa (who Otago didn't want). This is not an expensive exercise. The long term benefits for Southland and eventually the Highlanders by far outweighs the low costs. Wouldn't you consider Gregor Rutledge a local Southland player?
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Want to see something far worse than Southland running a group of young players in Dunedin @Kiwiwomble ... try Otago being runoured to be signing an Australian based winger. An absolute disgrace in my mind. It is in the Paul Dwyer weekly column here. https://www.odt.co.nz/sport/rugby/club-rugby/dwyer-three-sides-still-trophy-contention
The word on the street is that Otago are contracting in a winger from Australia to bolster their NPC squad. Surely this can’t be right, and the Otago board has said no? I’ve been banging on for weeks about there being no money in rugby. The NZRU have just announced a $9 million loss for the year to prove that point. If they have allowed this to happen, they really have lost touch with reality and certainly with their clubs. How do you explain this to Aaron McMurray from Varsity, to Kyan Rangitutia from Dunedin, to Mackenzie Palmer from Southern, to Joe Cockburn from Taieri, to name just a few. Pick any of these players and put more bums on seats at the Greenhouse. I truly hope I’ve got this wrong because if it is true we should divest our club scene from Otago and go it alone. -
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both things can be bad for grass roots
@Kiwiwomble said in Otago 2024:
both things can be bad for grass roots
One supports the development of the best players across the two regions getting opportunities. The other is an Australian taking the spot of a young Otago/Highlanders prospect. With Lachlan McCaffrey being the head coach of Gungahlin Eagles, I'd suspect we are about to see someone in the Canberra system. Absolutely disgraceful. Kyan Rangitutia is a big strong lad who has been lighting it up at Shark Park. He deserves an opportunity. Yet, here we may be spending decent money to fly over, house and pay an Australian who may be here for one season. This is exactly what NZ Rugby is talking about with its issues with the provinces.
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i dont know who you're arguing with, i dont disagree unless its someone young actually moving to dunedin with no guarantees thats going to earn their spot through club rugby
that doesnt change my opinion southland should be concentrating on players living and playing in Invercargill
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I was just fuether explaining my issue with the Australian move. I don't see the reasoning in your rigid stance on the Southland affiliated players. Especially as it allows them to attend university and be aligned to Southland. It is clear, when and if they finish uni and will be staying with Southland, they'd go down there at that point. There are plenty of other lads who aren't attending uni and have moved to Southland who are playing down there fulltime; Tupou-Taei'loa, Leroy Ferguson, Michael Manson. It is just limited to the guys attending uni. It is a player walfare focused approach. Which has to be seen as a good thing. Major League Rugby has a far bigger impact on club rugby. Especially when you have half your contracted players over there.
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once again trying to point at something else thats also bad like a distractions
its simple in my mind, i dont think unions should be developing players that ply their trade in other club comps, thats literally focusing on the high performance, we're allowed to disagree
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i dont know who you're arguing with, i dont disagree unless its someone young actually moving to dunedin with no guarantees thats going to earn their spot through club rugby
that doesnt change my opinion southland should be concentrating on players living and playing in Invercargill
@Kiwiwomble said in Otago 2024:
i dont know who you're arguing with, i dont disagree unless its someone young actually moving to dunedin with no guarantees thats going to earn their spot through club rugby
that doesnt change my opinion southland should be concentrating on players living and playing in Invercargill
Seems stupid though... basically saying that someone from Southland Boys has to pick between University or playing semi-pro rugby for Southland.
