All Blacks vs England I
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks vs England I:
MacDonald talking about the backs:
“Consistency-wise, I think [Proctor] would have been one of the hardest working midfielders. He’s a very accurate defender and he’s an effective attacker"
When I read that I kept thinking so why didn't they select A J Lam over still recovering from injury Havili?
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs England I:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks vs England I:
“Consistency-wise, I think [Proctor] would have been one of the hardest working midfielders. He’s a very accurate defender and he’s an effective attacker"
This has been blindingly obvious for 2 years. It would be nice if Leon would provide a bit more insight - though I never found his comments as Blues coach especially enlightening.
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks vs England I:
MacDonald talking about the backs:
“Consistency-wise, I think [Proctor] would have been one of the hardest working midfielders. He’s a very accurate defender and he’s an effective attacker"
When I read that I kept thinking so why didn't they select A J Lam over still recovering from injury Havili?
@nostrildamus Rangi probably doesn't like AJ Lam either....
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@nostrildamus Rangi probably doesn't like AJ Lam either....
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks vs England I:
@nostrildamus Rangi probably doesn't like AJ Lam either....
What are Lam's weaknesses? I haven't seen enough of him to know but everything I have seen recently looks test-material..
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@African-Monkey said in All Blacks vs England I:
@nostrildamus Rangi probably doesn't like AJ Lam either....
What are Lam's weaknesses? I haven't seen enough of him to know but everything I have seen recently looks test-material..
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs England I:
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks vs England I:
@nostrildamus Rangi probably doesn't like AJ Lam either....
What are Lam's weaknesses? I haven't seen enough of him to know but everything I have seen recently looks test-material..
At times on the wing defensively he could be a bit passive - he seems to defend better in the middle of the park - once he shifted to 12 his defensive was terrific
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@African-Monkey said in All Blacks vs England I:
@nostrildamus Rangi probably doesn't like AJ Lam either....
What are Lam's weaknesses? I haven't seen enough of him to know but everything I have seen recently looks test-material..
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs England I:
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks vs England I:
@nostrildamus Rangi probably doesn't like AJ Lam either....
What are Lam's weaknesses? I haven't seen enough of him to know but everything I have seen recently looks test-material..
inepexperience. He's only had half a season at 12.
Ther'es a stronger argument to bring him into the wider squad than Havili
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Interesting to see BOK hanging with the ABs.
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs England I:
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks vs England I:
@nostrildamus Rangi probably doesn't like AJ Lam either....
What are Lam's weaknesses? I haven't seen enough of him to know but everything I have seen recently looks test-material..
inepexperience. He's only had half a season at 12.
Ther'es a stronger argument to bring him into the wider squad than Havili
@nzzp said in All Blacks vs England I:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs England I:
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks vs England I:
@nostrildamus Rangi probably doesn't like AJ Lam either....
What are Lam's weaknesses? I haven't seen enough of him to know but everything I have seen recently looks test-material..
inepexperience. He's only had half a season at 12.
Ther'es a stronger argument to bring him into the wider squad than Havili
I totally agree.
I can see they want experience in the team and a few fresh talents in the wider squad but it surely makes more sense to have the conservative already been ABs in the forwards, and the reserves being inexperienced but fit - this doesn't to me explain the Havili decision.
If he is experienced and good enough he needs to be starting, otherwise if his fitness and or form is shaky, bells start ringing when Rangi says DH just needs a few games, AB games are surely more than refresher games. -
@nzzp said in All Blacks vs England I:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs England I:
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks vs England I:
@nostrildamus Rangi probably doesn't like AJ Lam either....
What are Lam's weaknesses? I haven't seen enough of him to know but everything I have seen recently looks test-material..
inepexperience. He's only had half a season at 12.
Ther'es a stronger argument to bring him into the wider squad than Havili
I totally agree.
I can see they want experience in the team and a few fresh talents in the wider squad but it surely makes more sense to have the conservative already been ABs in the forwards, and the reserves being inexperienced but fit - this doesn't to me explain the Havili decision.
If he is experienced and good enough he needs to be starting, otherwise if his fitness and or form is shaky, bells start ringing when Rangi says DH just needs a few games, AB games are surely more than refresher games.@nostrildamus I rated Havili at 12 when he came in - but he disappeared and got found out against bigger teams (SA).
If you play him against Fiji, he'll look a million dollars. But you know what you'll get against Ireland, SA, France or England on a good day. And it won't look pretty.
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@nostrildamus I rated Havili at 12 when he came in - but he disappeared and got found out against bigger teams (SA).
If you play him against Fiji, he'll look a million dollars. But you know what you'll get against Ireland, SA, France or England on a good day. And it won't look pretty.
@nzzp said in All Blacks vs England I:
@nostrildamus I rated Havili at 12 when he came in - but he disappeared and got found out against bigger teams (SA).
If you play him against Fiji, he'll look a million dollars. But you know what you'll get against Ireland, SA, France or England on a good day. And it won't look pretty.
Exactly! A shame, on form he seems a smart player. But I don't think the ABs can afford to have a 12 who only shines against lower tier teams.
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@Frank said in All Blacks vs England I:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs England I:
So as the dust settles on the first ABs squad of the year, who is in the 23 to play the first test against England. I think Razor will select the following:
- De Groot
- Taylor
- Lomax
- Barrett (C)
- Tuipolotu
- Finau
Papali'iBlackadder- Savea (VC)
ChristieRatima- McKenzie
- Clarke
- Barrett (VC)
- Ioane
- Reece
- Barrett
- Aumua
- Williams/Tu'ungafasi
- Newell
- Vaa'i
BlackadderPapaliiRatimaPerenara- Perofeta (yuck)
- ALB
I think we can all get to 90%+ on the 23.
Locks is a real worry. Razor in SENZ interview suggested that the TWM until very late on assumed Patty T was crocked. Which suggests Darry woul have been next up. But there must be doubts, and Scooter's bulging disc must also be a real concern. So Vaa'i, the only one at 100% will start. Scooter most natural to be LH lock, but if back plays up can only hope that Patty's knee is good enough!!!!!
Expect Paps to start. Slight chance Proctor will get a run, ribs permitting.
Bench more interesting. Ofa probably form LH, so would expect him, ribs also permitting. Blackadder seems to cover all three loose forward positions, and to come on at 60.
Perofeta, DMac and Beaudy are all going to be in 23. Hard to go past ALB for cover, although it does mean that if a wing goes down it would be logical for Rieko to shift out. That's where someone like Jordan or Stevenson is so handy!
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@antipodean said in All Blacks vs England I:
It will be interesting to see what differences they attempt to instil from the Fozzie era.
Desire hopefully.
There were times under Foster when they didn't seem to care that much. Then when it counted at the RWC they showed up mentally. I'm hoping Razor can get that passion out of them for every match like he seemed to with the 'saders for 7 years in a row.
@Snowy said in All Blacks vs England I:
Desire hopefully.
There were times under Foster when they didn't seem to care that much.
I think it was more a lack of focus than desire. Too often they'd get themselves back into a game only for someone to do something seriously dumb or get the collective wobbles - the 2019 SF being a classis example.
That started to improve and has to be one of Robertson's main areas of improvement IMHO
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Perhaps three playmakers to really confuse the opposition. Also a flat backline so no one knows who is getting the ball.
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs England I:
Perhaps three playmakers to really confuse the opposition.
As long as it doesn't confuse us as well....
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks vs England I:
MacDonald talking about the backs:
“Consistency-wise, I think [Proctor] would have been one of the hardest working midfielders. He’s a very accurate defender and he’s an effective attacker"
When I read that I kept thinking so why didn't they select A J Lam over still recovering from injury Havili?
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs England I:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks vs England I:
MacDonald talking about the backs:
“Consistency-wise, I think [Proctor] would have been one of the hardest working midfielders. He’s a very accurate defender and he’s an effective attacker"
When I read that I kept thinking so why didn't they select A J Lam over still recovering from injury Havili?
I agree here, if Proctor is nursing his ribs then surely you bring in someone like Lam who can cover 12 and 13, instead of Havili who just covers 12 and has injury issues of his own.
Again it’s a conservative selection which have been holding the ABs back for a few years now.
Can’t we just select the best players ffs. Bring back the Probables vs Possibles game to sort some of these selections out.
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs England I:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks vs England I:
MacDonald talking about the backs:
“Consistency-wise, I think [Proctor] would have been one of the hardest working midfielders. He’s a very accurate defender and he’s an effective attacker"
When I read that I kept thinking so why didn't they select A J Lam over still recovering from injury Havili?
I agree here, if Proctor is nursing his ribs then surely you bring in someone like Lam who can cover 12 and 13, instead of Havili who just covers 12 and has injury issues of his own.
Again it’s a conservative selection which have been holding the ABs back for a few years now.
Can’t we just select the best players ffs. Bring back the Probables vs Possibles game to sort some of these selections out.
@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs England I:
it’s a conservative selection
I'm not even sure it's conservative if you're selecting someone who's hardly played, under an injury cloud and never exactly set the world on fire anyway. I could understand if it was someone crucial like Savea, DMac or Jordie.
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@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs England I:
it’s a conservative selection
I'm not even sure it's conservative if you're selecting someone who's hardly played, under an injury cloud and never exactly set the world on fire anyway. I could understand if it was someone crucial like Savea, DMac or Jordie.
@Bones said in All Blacks vs England I:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs England I:
it’s a conservative selection
I'm not even sure it's conservative if you're selecting someone who's hardly played, under an injury cloud and never exactly set the world on fire anyway. I could understand if it was someone crucial like Savea, DMac or Jordie.
Maybe/maybe not but it’s a selection based on familiarity, most of those AB coaches would have worked with Havili for a long time so instead of going with an in form player like Lam who’s been destroying defences lately, they’ve based their selection on Havili’s history which to me is the wrong move. Proof will be in the pudding I guess.
If injuries strike and we are forced to start all of Christie, Perofeta, Havili and an aging BBarrett in the same backline, teams like South Africa will be shaking in their boots.
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@nostrildamus I rated Havili at 12 when he came in - but he disappeared and got found out against bigger teams (SA).
If you play him against Fiji, he'll look a million dollars. But you know what you'll get against Ireland, SA, France or England on a good day. And it won't look pretty.
@nzzp He isn't physical enough to be a test 12. He can play there at the level below, but he didn't enjoy the contact side of things against bigger sides as you pointed out.
He always looked like a fullback playing out of position with others always being preferred at test and domestic level.
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The times I have seen Lam play 12 he has done a good job making his tackles and running hard and straight, often close to the ruck, probably exactly how the Blues want him to play. I have yet to see such things as intricate backline moves revolving around him and passing that puts people into space. Given he has only recently started playing 12 I can understand why the selectors may not have picked him this time around.
