All Blacks vs England I
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Unbalanced loosies, slow halfbacks - I don't like it, but as expected.
Rieko being that bad was a surprise, his worst test in some time.
Good scrum. Too many lineouts lost.
Calls to replace McKenzie are retarded. He puts players in space - who else is going to do that? Just get him a decent halfback and some loosies who can create turnover ball so he has more opportunities to do it. Also excellent under the high ball.
Reece good. Perofeta surprisingly good. Telea is what he is. I don't like that style of winger, but he has a good work rate and is good in contact.
Beauden Barrett unsurprisingly poor. Noticeably worse than Perofeta positionally, and straight back to losing the kicking contests and short exits as soon as he came on.
On the loosies. Our 7 is a tackler and ruck cleaner... so he's really just a 6 who is too small. Our 8 is world player of the year, but he's just not very fucking useful. Finau quiet-ish then injured. Pretty mediocre from a country who have always had great strength in the loose, and makes a laughing stock of all the comments on here about how spoilt we were in super rugby for quality loosies. -
@chimoaus said in All Blacks vs England I:
On the positive I enjoyed the game and really looking forward to next week. I am confident the coaches will grow over the season and adapt as they go.
This is the first test and people on here are shitting themselves. I have complete and utter confidence in Razor and his team. in 3 years and 7 years time when we are winning our 4th and 5th world cup all the criticism will be laughed at.
@mencey said in All Blacks vs England I:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks vs England I:
On the positive I enjoyed the game and really looking forward to next week. I am confident the coaches will grow over the season and adapt as they go.
This is the first test and people on here are shitting themselves. I have complete and utter confidence in Razor and his team. in 3 years and 7 years time when we are winning our 4th and 5th world cup all the criticism will be laughed at.
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Now rewatched first half.
Must say that, taken in isolation, most of the Fern whinging is excessive.
ABs ought to have been 10 up after 40. As Ray noted, several opportunities not enforced. Common themes not drawing and passing or passing to someone in worse position. Rieko the chief culprit.
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Q3 rewatch.
Scrappy. Scrum use it own goal. Could have been out of our half. Bad Smith miss.
Then good English period for about eight minutes. Passing straight to two out off rucks found holes twice, and with yardage gained ABs forced to narrow defence, which England took advantage of very well.
50-60 three soft English penalties, one of which led to three points.
DMac high kicks very good except at 60 after his blood nose. Main failing two poor Taylor throw ins, one from very promising position. Bench seemed to add some energy. -
Mo'unga back is the last thing we need. How many years did he have to cement his spot and become a great test 10? At least one too many.
Time to move on. DMac wasn't perfect last night, but the first half I thought he played really well. Fuck, we even had an exit from our 22 into their half, seems like that hasn't happened since DC laced them up.
Put DMac outside A Smith and I'd suggest he would look significantly better - the drop in the 2nd half looked to me to be much more due to the quality of ball he was getting than anything else. The aimless kicking resurfaced, but that was a feature of the BB/RM years also so I'm not pinning that on him.
Mounga has now opened up about coming back to NZ and playing for the ABs again.
I’m not sure if he is back earlier than his contract allows but if we can have DM develop as an international 10 with 25-30 starts at 10 under his belt and the Richie comes back to NZ, then that would be a pretty good outcome for us.
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slow motion of the JB cleanout by the way - it looks legit. Was partway through the first half and at the time I thought he may be in trouble ... but it looks like a big bloke smashing a smaller bloke. Chapeau.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks vs England I:
Finau missing by the look of it - confirms the eye test a bit
Worth noting he was only on for 60mins. So would have finished higher on various stats if he kept the same rate up.
Only his second or third test so we shouldn’t expect Kaino mkII straight away.@pukunui said in All Blacks vs England I:
@nzzp said in All Blacks vs England I:
Finau missing by the look of it - confirms the eye test a bit
Worth noting he was only on for 60mins. So would have finished higher on various stats if he kept the same rate up.
Only his second or third test so we shouldn’t expect Kaino mkII straight away.One thing I noted on flicking through the game again was that he was standing just infield of - and was the first to arrive - to congratulate Reece when he scored from the cross kick. So may have been being used out wide a bit.
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While I hate to say it honestly the AB's looked pretty much like the Chiefs did all SR season, a forward pack that can't go forward so the game descends into trying to score from broken play or throwing it to Dmac and hoping that something would happen.
Our scrum was good but our line-out faultered on attack when it mattered to help put the game away.
Seemed to be quite a disconnect between our carriers and cleaners, often the worst thing the carrier could do was get go forward as they'd get isoloated. I hope it's just a team struggling to adopt a new attack pattern and get themselves in the right place - though I saw a lot of this under Fozzie too...
Credit where credit is due Perofeta had a magnificent game, I didn't agree with him being in the team but he was one of our best out there that night.
While DMac's kicking game wasn't good if you've run 10 phases into a brick wall and are kicking to a well set back 3 just sitting there waitng for you to kick then there's not much you can do except try and beat them for distance. He wasn't getting much help from anyone out there.
Our loose forwards were awful I thought, if Papps job is to clear the ruck and make tackles he should be at 6 not 7, Finau was missing, Adrie got 1 for the highlight reels but was missing at the ruck and on defence. Ineffective and garbled I would call it.
But credit to England they played clinically to their strengths (as a smart team should) and didn't let the AB's play well, they put pressure on, got their tries when they were on offer and with a more accurate boot could have won the game.
The AB's have an awful lot to do on their attack pattern and creating go-forward, we got 2 tries thanks to pieces of brilliance from DMac and Perofeta but the go forward and support of the ball carrier needs work on.
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While I hate to say it honestly the AB's looked pretty much like the Chiefs did all SR season, a forward pack that can't go forward so the game descends into trying to score from broken play or throwing it to Dmac and hoping that something would happen.
Our scrum was good but our line-out faultered on attack when it mattered to help put the game away.
Seemed to be quite a disconnect between our carriers and cleaners, often the worst thing the carrier could do was get go forward as they'd get isoloated. I hope it's just a team struggling to adopt a new attack pattern and get themselves in the right place - though I saw a lot of this under Fozzie too...
Credit where credit is due Perofeta had a magnificent game, I didn't agree with him being in the team but he was one of our best out there that night.
While DMac's kicking game wasn't good if you've run 10 phases into a brick wall and are kicking to a well set back 3 just sitting there waitng for you to kick then there's not much you can do except try and beat them for distance. He wasn't getting much help from anyone out there.
Our loose forwards were awful I thought, if Papps job is to clear the ruck and make tackles he should be at 6 not 7, Finau was missing, Adrie got 1 for the highlight reels but was missing at the ruck and on defence. Ineffective and garbled I would call it.
But credit to England they played clinically to their strengths (as a smart team should) and didn't let the AB's play well, they put pressure on, got their tries when they were on offer and with a more accurate boot could have won the game.
The AB's have an awful lot to do on their attack pattern and creating go-forward, we got 2 tries thanks to pieces of brilliance from DMac and Perofeta but the go forward and support of the ball carrier needs work on.
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Unbalanced loosies, slow halfbacks - I don't like it, but as expected.
Rieko being that bad was a surprise, his worst test in some time.
Good scrum. Too many lineouts lost.
Calls to replace McKenzie are retarded. He puts players in space - who else is going to do that? Just get him a decent halfback and some loosies who can create turnover ball so he has more opportunities to do it. Also excellent under the high ball.
Reece good. Perofeta surprisingly good. Telea is what he is. I don't like that style of winger, but he has a good work rate and is good in contact.
Beauden Barrett unsurprisingly poor. Noticeably worse than Perofeta positionally, and straight back to losing the kicking contests and short exits as soon as he came on.
On the loosies. Our 7 is a tackler and ruck cleaner... so he's really just a 6 who is too small. Our 8 is world player of the year, but he's just not very fucking useful. Finau quiet-ish then injured. Pretty mediocre from a country who have always had great strength in the loose, and makes a laughing stock of all the comments on here about how spoilt we were in super rugby for quality loosies.@reprobate Yeah - for the most part, I thought DMac was very good. A few kicks in the latter part of the second half that were a bit aimless (my favourite play of the match was when he chip kicked and Scott Barrett suddenly realised that he was supposed to be Will Jordan and lurched forward - we somehow won a penalty, so it ended better than it deserved!). DMac's passing was quick and accurate.
I thought Perenara was surprisingly good - not Aaron Smith but there are few who are. Christie had a rough start - the de Groot penalty came from a lack of combination between him and Ardie - hopefully won't happen again. Got better as the game went on and a series of good box kicks towards the end.
It would be madness not to pick Ardie - we are a bit short of magic-makers in the current selection and he is one who regularly does special things. Less attempted intercepts would be good from him - if you go for it, you'd better get it. I wouldn't mind if they transitioned him back to 7, but not in this series.
Injuries will probably dictate who plays next weekend. TJ apparently proclaiming he's feeling fabulous - but, we need to wait to see whether he's Boobie Miles, or not (Friday Night Lights).
Finau with a failed HIA.
I wonder whether Clarke might have played on the left wing if he was fit - and wouldn't mind him there this week if he's recovered.
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@Windows97
Fair critique, yet we still won.
Wonder what happens when we get it right.@Frank said in All Blacks vs England I:
@Windows97
Fair critique, yet we still won.
Wonder what happens when we get it right.We'll win by 30 if we get it right, the obvious talent and finishing power is there, it's all the hard work required to break the shackles first is the bit we need to work on.
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@reprobate Yeah - for the most part, I thought DMac was very good. A few kicks in the latter part of the second half that were a bit aimless (my favourite play of the match was when he chip kicked and Scott Barrett suddenly realised that he was supposed to be Will Jordan and lurched forward - we somehow won a penalty, so it ended better than it deserved!). DMac's passing was quick and accurate.
I thought Perenara was surprisingly good - not Aaron Smith but there are few who are. Christie had a rough start - the de Groot penalty came from a lack of combination between him and Ardie - hopefully won't happen again. Got better as the game went on and a series of good box kicks towards the end.
It would be madness not to pick Ardie - we are a bit short of magic-makers in the current selection and he is one who regularly does special things. Less attempted intercepts would be good from him - if you go for it, you'd better get it. I wouldn't mind if they transitioned him back to 7, but not in this series.
Injuries will probably dictate who plays next weekend. TJ apparently proclaiming he's feeling fabulous - but, we need to wait to see whether he's Boobie Miles, or not (Friday Night Lights).
Finau with a failed HIA.
I wonder whether Clarke might have played on the left wing if he was fit - and wouldn't mind him there this week if he's recovered.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks vs England I:
I wonder whether Clarke might have played on the left wing if he was fit - and wouldn't mind him there this week if he's recovered.
His owrk in the air, particularly on kickoffs is amazing. He'd be a lock for me to start
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks vs England I:
I wonder whether Clarke might have played on the left wing if he was fit - and wouldn't mind him there this week if he's recovered.
His owrk in the air, particularly on kickoffs is amazing. He'd be a lock for me to start
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I think it's a pretty simple fix for the AB's though, just get better coordination between our carriers and cleaners and our attack will start to click. I think we just set up too wide and were getting beaten by the english linespeed so the defenders we getting to the breakdown before the cleaners were. When that happends it's always going to be a tough day at the office. If we fix that we'll be golden.
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I think it's a pretty simple fix for the AB's though, just get better coordination between our carriers and cleaners and our attack will start to click. I think we just set up too wide and were getting beaten by the english linespeed so the defenders we getting to the breakdown before the cleaners were. When that happends it's always going to be a tough day at the office. If we fix that we'll be golden.
@Windows97 Yes - Rieko had a tough day at the office - but, a couple of times he got the man and the ball at the same time and there's not much he can do about that.
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I am pretty excited to see what we look like with more games under our belts. DMac was putting guys in holes, but as pointed out, our support wasn't quite clicking, and it was clunky when we switched from forwards to backs.
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I am pretty excited to see what we look like with more games under our belts. DMac was putting guys in holes, but as pointed out, our support wasn't quite clicking, and it was clunky when we switched from forwards to backs.
@mariner4life Yeah - little mistakes killed us.
We gave up several sucker penalties with a dominant scrum. Some lineout glitches also cost plenty of field position. DMac's non-kick. Ardie's forward pass when we'd opened them up. Some fumbles in the backline. Three chip kicks that weren't close to being recovered.
We also got a couple of seemingly fortuitous calls from the ref. I still haven't worked out how we won that last penalty to end the game - but my eyes aren't as fast as they used to be.
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@mariner4life Yeah - little mistakes killed us.
We gave up several sucker penalties with a dominant scrum. Some lineout glitches also cost plenty of field position. DMac's non-kick. Ardie's forward pass when we'd opened them up. Some fumbles in the backline. Three chip kicks that weren't close to being recovered.
We also got a couple of seemingly fortuitous calls from the ref. I still haven't worked out how we won that last penalty to end the game - but my eyes aren't as fast as they used to be.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks vs England I:
I still haven't worked out how we won that last penalty to end the game - but my eyes aren't as fast as they used to be.
I think (??!) that the ref considered the tackler moved forward rather than place the ball - which was why Tupou and Dalts fell over. But yeah, it looked weird. We couldn't see if either of them got hands to the ball as the ref was on teh other side of the ruck.
I'll take it though!
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks vs England I:
I still haven't worked out how we won that last penalty to end the game - but my eyes aren't as fast as they used to be.
I think (??!) that the ref considered the tackler moved forward rather than place the ball - which was why Tupou and Dalts fell over. But yeah, it looked weird. We couldn't see if either of them got hands to the ball as the ref was on teh other side of the ruck.
I'll take it though!
