All Blacks vs England I
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@mariner4life Yeah - little mistakes killed us.
We gave up several sucker penalties with a dominant scrum. Some lineout glitches also cost plenty of field position. DMac's non-kick. Ardie's forward pass when we'd opened them up. Some fumbles in the backline. Three chip kicks that weren't close to being recovered.
We also got a couple of seemingly fortuitous calls from the ref. I still haven't worked out how we won that last penalty to end the game - but my eyes aren't as fast as they used to be.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks vs England I:
I still haven't worked out how we won that last penalty to end the game - but my eyes aren't as fast as they used to be.
I think (??!) that the ref considered the tackler moved forward rather than place the ball - which was why Tupou and Dalts fell over. But yeah, it looked weird. We couldn't see if either of them got hands to the ball as the ref was on teh other side of the ruck.
I'll take it though!
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks vs England I:
I still haven't worked out how we won that last penalty to end the game - but my eyes aren't as fast as they used to be.
I think (??!) that the ref considered the tackler moved forward rather than place the ball - which was why Tupou and Dalts fell over. But yeah, it looked weird. We couldn't see if either of them got hands to the ball as the ref was on teh other side of the ruck.
I'll take it though!
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks vs England I:
I still haven't worked out how we won that last penalty to end the game - but my eyes aren't as fast as they used to be.
I think (??!) that the ref considered the tackler moved forward rather than place the ball - which was why Tupou and Dalts fell over. But yeah, it looked weird. We couldn't see if either of them got hands to the ball as the ref was on teh other side of the ruck.
I'll take it though!
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@nzzp @Chris-B
Penalty Cane before they fell over. Probably fell over because of the holding on.
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While I hate to say it honestly the AB's looked pretty much like the Chiefs did all SR season, a forward pack that can't go forward so the game descends into trying to score from broken play or throwing it to Dmac and hoping that something would happen.
Our scrum was good but our line-out faultered on attack when it mattered to help put the game away.
Seemed to be quite a disconnect between our carriers and cleaners, often the worst thing the carrier could do was get go forward as they'd get isoloated. I hope it's just a team struggling to adopt a new attack pattern and get themselves in the right place - though I saw a lot of this under Fozzie too...
Credit where credit is due Perofeta had a magnificent game, I didn't agree with him being in the team but he was one of our best out there that night.
While DMac's kicking game wasn't good if you've run 10 phases into a brick wall and are kicking to a well set back 3 just sitting there waitng for you to kick then there's not much you can do except try and beat them for distance. He wasn't getting much help from anyone out there.
Our loose forwards were awful I thought, if Papps job is to clear the ruck and make tackles he should be at 6 not 7, Finau was missing, Adrie got 1 for the highlight reels but was missing at the ruck and on defence. Ineffective and garbled I would call it.
But credit to England they played clinically to their strengths (as a smart team should) and didn't let the AB's play well, they put pressure on, got their tries when they were on offer and with a more accurate boot could have won the game.
The AB's have an awful lot to do on their attack pattern and creating go-forward, we got 2 tries thanks to pieces of brilliance from DMac and Perofeta but the go forward and support of the ball carrier needs work on.
@Windows97 said in All Blacks vs England I:
if Papps job is to clear the ruck and make tackles he should be at 6 not 7,
Agree with everything but this.
I'm struggling to think of a time this millennium where that wasn't the job of the openside.
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@Windows97 said in All Blacks vs England I:
if Papps job is to clear the ruck and make tackles he should be at 6 not 7,
Agree with everything but this.
I'm struggling to think of a time this millennium where that wasn't the job of the openside.
@Bones said in All Blacks vs England I:
@Windows97 said in All Blacks vs England I:
if Papps job is to clear the ruck and make tackles he should be at 6 not 7,
Agree with everything but this.
I'm struggling to think of a time this millennium where that wasn't the job of the openside.
i agree although i took him to mean, and i may have read my own thoughts into it, if your 6 is doing that then he should be a 6...i.e. 7 not a jackal threat
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This was very nice work:
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This was very nice work:
@Tim said in All Blacks vs England I:
This was very nice work:
Not the videoing, filming a widescreen TV in portrait, fucking idiot.
He didn't get the penalty for that either, I don't think? Or am I misremembering?
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@Tim said in All Blacks vs England I:
This was very nice work:
Not the videoing, filming a widescreen TV in portrait, fucking idiot.
He didn't get the penalty for that either, I don't think? Or am I misremembering?
@Machpants I was just trying to recall too.
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@Tim said in All Blacks vs England I:
This was very nice work:
Not the videoing, filming a widescreen TV in portrait, fucking idiot.
He didn't get the penalty for that either, I don't think? Or am I misremembering?
@Machpants said in All Blacks vs England I:
@Tim said in All Blacks vs England I:
This was very nice work:
Not the videoing, filming a widescreen TV in portrait, fucking idiot.
He didn't get the penalty for that either, I don't think? Or am I misremembering?
Nah, they didn’t call it. I was wondering if the radio link between the touchy and the ref was playing up because it looks like the touchy was trying to say something but play went on.
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Q3 rewatch.
Scrappy. Scrum use it own goal. Could have been out of our half. Bad Smith miss.
Then good English period for about eight minutes. Passing straight to two out off rucks found holes twice, and with yardage gained ABs forced to narrow defence, which England took advantage of very well.
50-60 three soft English penalties, one of which led to three points.
DMac high kicks very good except at 60 after his blood nose. Main failing two poor Taylor throw ins, one from very promising position. Bench seemed to add some energy.@pakman Q4
Also scrappy. Pressure led English to concede three kickable ruck penalties, of which two converted within time.
That said, English press nullified AB backline attack.
In last ten we also got no change from one-off runs from ruck, Aumua excepted. Vaa'i and three 6.5s not the best for that, although former made ground twice in looser play with some footwork.
Excellent scrum penalty at 70 with Newell drilling Bunter, with Itoje slipping off his butt. Ofa also forcing Cole back.
One bad throw in after Aumua baulked. Maul v. good.
Only one promising run in broken play, but BB went for one of his miracle chips when a fast ruck might have split the English.
Couple of excellent Christie box kicks with Reece supplying the hit on catching Furbank.
Winning rugby, against which England offered little in attack in last 30.
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Last two penalties were so bad, should have been exactly the other way around (1st one, Christie should have won it - game over, second one ABs should have been penalised for off their feet).
@Tordah said in All Blacks vs England I:
Last two penalties were so bad, should have been exactly the other way around (1st one, Christie should have won it - game over, second one ABs should have been penalised for off their feet).
They were only off feet after England had conceded the penalty. In fact they were only off feet because England had conceded the penalty.
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Last two penalties were so bad, should have been exactly the other way around (1st one, Christie should have won it - game over, second one ABs should have been penalised for off their feet).
@Tordah said in All Blacks vs England I:
Last two penalties were so bad, should have been exactly the other way around (1st one, Christie should have won it - game over, second one ABs should have been penalised for off their feet).
Agree with that. It was right in front of the touchie. Shades of Cardiff 2007...
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Ian McGeechan's take on England - AB 1. Wish all media commentators could be this clear and incisive.
Steve Borthwick’s approach with England continues to evolve and against New Zealand it found another level. To maintain a good performance, you rely on the tactical nuances introduced by your replacements. For England, that was a mixed bag.
I was not expecting some of the replacements at the times they happened. Alex Mitchell, for instance, was causing New Zealand problems with the speed at which he was playing. England lost a bit of pace after he went off. I know the game changed, mainly because both teams had to work harder at the breakdowns. Losing a second or more there meant the game reverted to more of a kicking battle, and if you are in one of those, you probably want Ben Spencer on the pitch.
In that last 20 minutes, England needed to keep building scores, but they could not manufacture the opportunities that they had created for the tries they scored earlier on, simply because both teams were kicking earlier from the slower breakdowns.
You could say that New Zealand were forced into a kicking game by England’s defence. That two-minute period just before half-time was an unbelievable defensive set that demonstrated the understanding England have built without the ball. It eventually led to a breakdown turnover and three points to tie up the game.
Spencer suits a game that becomes a kicking exchange, but if England were going to keep the pace up, you would have expected maybe 10 more minutes out of Mitchell.
I thought the same of Tom Curry replacing Chandler Cunningham-South. Curry clearly needs game-time because he is not where he was during the World Cup and he conceded a breakdown penalty early on. I can see why Borthwick will have wanted him there, but I would question the timing. Cunningham-South had been receiving treatment, which was the case against Japan a couple of weeks ago as well. Again, though, he was brought off earlier than I expected. He is such a good ball-carrier, which helps drive the collective momentum.
Speed is where New Zealand always seem to hold an advantage over teams. They click into shape so quickly from turnover ball and move it to space. And if they get a quick ruck, they will get cumulative quick rucks. Bringing on Curry, who can be one of the best at the contact area, seemed like an attempt from Borthwick to stop that trend.
There will have been a tactical plan for the timing of the replacements, apart from Fin Baxter taking over from the injured Joe Marler, and an overall approach to go with it. I cannot imagine that fatigue will have been too much of a factor, because they had not played in two weeks. It is more a case of assessing the collective momentum of the team and whether it is being lost.
Fin Smith’s arrival was a good call, in my opinion, as kicking strategy had tightened both teams up. There is a certain physicality about him, and Marcus Smith had missed two penalties, which reflects the pressure that playing in New Zealand puts you under. He did not hit either of them particularly well and Henry Slade could have taken responsibility from the tee.
Playing against the All Blacks in New Zealand is a huge challenge for anyone, let alone a Test debutant, and I thought Baxter did seriously well. With the All Blacks not having played for eight months, I think Borthwick will have seen it as a good opportunity to introduce those young faces to let them appreciate what the level is like.
There is no doubt that England’s scrum was under pressure, which intensified in the second half, but Baxter held things together well and was good away from the scrums, getting involved in the contact area. Until you play in a game like that, you cannot understand where you are and the experience will have given him a valuable reference point. As individuals and as a collective, England will have learned what it takes to get over the line in those contests.
Dan Cole coming on was a technical scrummaging decision, which showed how England were losing control of that area. For Saturday’s game at Eden Park, there must be serious improvements there.
Although Ollie Sleightholme did not get a touch of the ball, he will have felt the atmosphere of a Test in New Zealand and Borthwick deserves credit for that. He is obviously confident in his entire squad, which bodes well.
For both locks to go 80 minutes was quite something, and I thought Maro Itoje and George Martin were outstanding. Itoje picked up a couple of turnovers and Martin was immensely powerful, especially when counter-rucking and causing issues for the All Blacks.
England are still moving in the right direction
Overall, England’s defence built upon their display in Japan and went to another level. Felix Jones has been hammering home the habits he wants and England kept numbers on their feet – they committed to breakdowns only if the first contact was good – and maintained the integrity of the line. For New Zealand to score only 16 points is testament to that.Another example of where England are going came just five minutes into the second half when Immanuel Feyi-Waboso ran back a clearance from Damian McKenzie and linked with Slade to set up a broken-field situation. What followed from there was one of the best attacks I can remember this side putting together and covering more than 60 metres of the pitch.
Feyi-Waboso eventually scored 14 phases later, which was a reward for their conviction on the counter. But another thing that struck me was how two players other than Mitchell, George Furbank and Sam Underhill, stepped up at scrum-half to move the ball away from the breakdown at different times.
To me, when players are ready to play that role, it is always a sign that a team are in sync and able to capitalise on quick ball. They could not quite finish it off, but England are still moving in the right direction, they will become more and more difficult to play against and, for supporters, better and better to watch. A win in Auckland? Very possible.
