All Blacks vs England 2
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs England 2:
@Frank said in All Blacks vs England 2:
Perofeta actually should not have thrown to Telea in that movement when he was cut down before the line.
He had Christie and Jordie inside me and unmarked.
Telea should have done better though. Look at the space he has.
It may look like space but as someone who played at wing and in the centres, the defender clearly has the angle on Telea as well as pace (as we saw all game).
The fullback in that screen capture has the dream defence scenario as a back 3 player, you have the angle, you have the sideline and because Perofeta passed early, sole focus on Telea.
He was always going to make that tackle and when he did, Telea had no choice but to either be taken over the sideline or throw the miracle ball back inside which, as we know, was picked off by Smith.
Watching the replay of this again, that was all on Perofeta as he had two un-marked men on his inside but never even looked in that direction, only at Telea which made it even easier for the English 15 coming across in cover.
Plus, Perofeta didn't even attempt to draw and pass the 15 or delay him enough to give Telea a chance.
100% that was all on Perofeta.
@RoninWC said in All Blacks vs England 2:
It may look like space but as someone who played at wing and in the centres, the defender clearly has the angle on Telea as well as pace (as we saw all game).
I see what you are saying
I guess my point is with a faster wing the angle wouldn't have been there.
Perofeta had to slow down as well giving the cover more time to come across.
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@RoninWC said in All Blacks vs England 2:
It may look like space but as someone who played at wing and in the centres, the defender clearly has the angle on Telea as well as pace (as we saw all game).
I see what you are saying
I guess my point is with a faster wing the angle wouldn't have been there.
Perofeta had to slow down as well giving the cover more time to come across.
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs England 2:
@RoninWC said in All Blacks vs England 2:
It may look like space but as someone who played at wing and in the centres, the defender clearly has the angle on Telea as well as pace (as we saw all game).
I see what you are saying
I guess my point is with a faster wing the angle wouldn't have been there.
Perofeta had to slow down as well giving the cover more time to come across.
It was embarrassing how at least twice ABs had to slow down so that Telea could keep up. I'm sure he's got a niggle.
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The Welsh don't seem to rate Telea's speed (in 2023)
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/fastest-players-rugby-world-cup-27741318 -
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs England 2:
@RoninWC said in All Blacks vs England 2:
It may look like space but as someone who played at wing and in the centres, the defender clearly has the angle on Telea as well as pace (as we saw all game).
I see what you are saying
I guess my point is with a faster wing the angle wouldn't have been there.
Perofeta had to slow down as well giving the cover more time to come across.
It was embarrassing how at least twice ABs had to slow down so that Telea could keep up. I'm sure he's got a niggle.
@nostrildamus I think he does too. I'm a huge fan of his, but yeah, he's not the quickest we've had, but he hasn't been as slow as he was last night.
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The counter point to that is:
In the pack 4 of the tight 5 and 1 of the loosies was a starter last year, another was an ever-present in the 23.
The midfield is the same as last year, Telea was a starter. BB is a veteran.
Throw in Reece and Patty T and Vaai as guys who have been in the environment for ages and it's not like we're embarking on a clean slate era like Australia. There should be more cohesion than there was last night.@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs England 2:
The counter point to that is:
In the pack 4 of the tight 5 and 1 of the loosies was a starter last year, another was an ever-present in the 23.
The midfield is the same as last year, Telea was a starter. BB is a veteran.
Throw in Reece and Patty T and Vaai as guys who have been in the environment for ages and it's not like we're embarking on a clean slate era like Australia. There should be more cohesion than there was last night.Maybe, just maybe... Englands defence had something to do with a lack of cohesion...
I personally believe the biggest influence other that England's defence, was the fact that Christie was far to slow to clear the rucks. And that gave the England defence time to reset and also robbed our ball runners and backs of the precious forward momentum.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs England 2:
The counter point to that is:
In the pack 4 of the tight 5 and 1 of the loosies was a starter last year, another was an ever-present in the 23.
The midfield is the same as last year, Telea was a starter. BB is a veteran.
Throw in Reece and Patty T and Vaai as guys who have been in the environment for ages and it's not like we're embarking on a clean slate era like Australia. There should be more cohesion than there was last night.Maybe, just maybe... Englands defence had something to do with a lack of cohesion...
I personally believe the biggest influence other that England's defence, was the fact that Christie was far to slow to clear the rucks. And that gave the England defence time to reset and also robbed our ball runners and backs of the precious forward momentum.
@Mattasaurus said in All Blacks vs England 2:
I personally believe the biggest influence other that England's defence, was the fact that Christie was far to slow to clear the rucks. And that gave the England defence time to reset and also robbed our ball runners and backs of the precious forward momentum.
It's still basically true that other sides struggle to cope with our fast style. (if we can execute it)
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@Frank said in All Blacks vs England 2:
God bless Smiley Barrett.
Seriously, imagine having sired 3 farking Allblacks. Possibly could've been 4 if Kane hadn't suffered those head knocks. I'd be dining out on that 24/7 til my final breath.
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I'm actually reasonably happy after those 2 games. The side is going through a pretty massive transition phase and I think they're on the right track in terms of how they want to play and how effective that will be if executed correctly. The biggest concern by far is the lineout because the players farking that up should have enough experience. Hopefully they get that right.
In terms of the backs, the only thing that can be considered "settled" is a centre combo who have been together for 5 minutes. Raw as fůck.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs England 2:
We were anything but calm in the first 60 minutes. It was an error-strewn performance up with the worst of the the Ireland series.
Our lineout was appalling, but other than that we were not "error strewn".
We didn't drop a lot of ball forward (including taking all the high kicks they put up). Our scrum was stable. We didn't give away heaps of penalties. We didn't miss heaps of tackles and they made almost no line breaks.
We took some wrong options, but no-one ever gets them all right. We didn't make many yards with the forwards, but that isn't an error.
Every test has errors because of the pressure they are under, but in the key areas of not dropping ball or dropping tackles we were much improved over the start of the last few years.
Some people on this forum seem to think that not only should the ABs be the best, that they should be perfect too.
@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks vs England 2:
Our lineout was appalling, but other than that we were not "error strewn".
We didn't drop a lot of ball forward
That's an interesting take considering at one stage the handling errors were England 4, NZ 9 (just before NZ made another handling error). Think it was even before halftime?
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@Frank said in All Blacks vs England 2:
God bless Smiley Barrett.
Seriously, imagine having sired 3 farking Allblacks. Possibly could've been 4 if Kane hadn't suffered those head knocks. I'd be dining out on that 24/7 til my final breath.
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks vs England 2:
@Frank said in All Blacks vs England 2:
God bless Smiley Barrett.
Seriously, imagine having sired 3 farking Allblacks. Possibly could've been 4 if Kane hadn't suffered those head knocks. I'd be dining out on that 24/7 til my final breath.
I remember him when he played for the Canes, never in any discussions for an AB call up but a very good, niggly player. I think it’s fair to say Scott inherited most of his playing genes but Jordie looks the most like him.
He probably butted heads with Todd Blackadder, Eroni Clarke, Waisake Sotutu (ok, his son nearly made it ), Semi Sititi, Eddie Ioane etc all of whom also have sons in the squad
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs England 2:
The counter point to that is:
In the pack 4 of the tight 5 and 1 of the loosies was a starter last year, another was an ever-present in the 23.
The midfield is the same as last year, Telea was a starter. BB is a veteran.
Throw in Reece and Patty T and Vaai as guys who have been in the environment for ages and it's not like we're embarking on a clean slate era like Australia. There should be more cohesion than there was last night.Yeah - but, we were good enough to beat the team that also lost by a point to SA in France - and a team that's had a full 6Ns and a warm up vs Japan to prepare.
Fix the first half lineout and we'll look better. According to Razor, we did in the second half (I haven't re-watched to see).
We can blood a few players vs Fiji in San Diego and then we've got three weeks to prepare for Argentina. You'd hope to see quite a bit more cohesion in those tests - and evidence of the new systems that are being introduced.
Then massive tests against SA, who pretty much seem to have their World Cup team intact - so we will find out how we're travelling. Some promising news that the Sexton-less Irish put them away overnight!
@Chris-B said in All Blacks vs England 2:
Yeah - but, we were good enough to beat the team that also lost by a point to SA in France - and a team that's had a full 6Ns and a warm up vs Japan to prepare.
That team that could only beat Wales by 2 points?
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Don't make me go back and watch the last RWC! But I honestly don't remember Richie M having the greatest tournament, or being clearly the world best 10.
@nostrildamus
Last 2 years DMac has been best NZ 10 in my eyes -
As much as our midfield and Loosies aren't "firing" on attack. What is clear in the game is there are a lot of opportunities going begging due to poor option taking and/or being conservative and taking contact instead of getting a pop away.
Reminiscent of the last regime but I'm willing to see it play out and hopefully click once everyone is comfortable.
The other thing to think about in test rugby is the old safe storage of dry powder. Don't even open the doors to the barn if you don't need to, bring it out sparingly.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs England 2:
The counter point to that is:
In the pack 4 of the tight 5 and 1 of the loosies was a starter last year, another was an ever-present in the 23.
The midfield is the same as last year, Telea was a starter. BB is a veteran.
Throw in Reece and Patty T and Vaai as guys who have been in the environment for ages and it's not like we're embarking on a clean slate era like Australia. There should be more cohesion than there was last night.Yeah - but, we were good enough to beat the team that also lost by a point to SA in France - and a team that's had a full 6Ns and a warm up vs Japan to prepare.
Fix the first half lineout and we'll look better. According to Razor, we did in the second half (I haven't re-watched to see).
We can blood a few players vs Fiji in San Diego and then we've got three weeks to prepare for Argentina. You'd hope to see quite a bit more cohesion in those tests - and evidence of the new systems that are being introduced.
Then massive tests against SA, who pretty much seem to have their World Cup team intact - so we will find out how we're travelling. Some promising news that the Sexton-less Irish put them away overnight!
@Chris-B
And it's comforting to know we have a scrum that can stand up to SA.
We should be able to bodge up some sort of lineout -
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs England 2:
We were anything but calm in the first 60 minutes. It was an error-strewn performance up with the worst of the the Ireland series.
Our lineout was appalling, but other than that we were not "error strewn".
We didn't drop a lot of ball forward (including taking all the high kicks they put up). Our scrum was stable. We didn't give away heaps of penalties. We didn't miss heaps of tackles and they made almost no line breaks.
We took some wrong options, but no-one ever gets them all right. We didn't make many yards with the forwards, but that isn't an error.
Every test has errors because of the pressure they are under, but in the key areas of not dropping ball or dropping tackles we were much improved over the start of the last few years.
Some people on this forum seem to think that not only should the ABs be the best, that they should be perfect too.
@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks vs England 2:
We took some wrong options, but no-one ever gets them all right. We didn't make many yards with the forwards, but that isn't an error.
Are you suggesting was a deliberate plan not to make many yards with the forwards and this wasn't an error (poor execution in other words)?
Every test has errors because of the pressure they are under, but in the key areas of not dropping ball or dropping tackles we were much improved over the start of the last few years.
I saw little improvement from last year - in the forwards, apart from scrums, we actually seem to have regressed in areas. Kudos to Robertson for bringing BB on and reverting to last years game-plan, though.
Some people on this forum seem to think that not only should the ABs be the best, that they should be perfect too
When we were beaten by the No.1 team in the world, I didn't hear people saying "that's OK we can't be the best all the time" - and rightly so.
Of course we can't be perfect, but I don't expect this sort of dross to be excused on the basis of cherry-picking positives to prove we are getting better when we clearly are treading water at best.
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@voodoo said in All Blacks vs England 2:
Why does Scott Barrett do that half-arsed chargedown attempt at every single oppo ruck box-clearance? I don't feel like he's got one since 1993 and it just leaves him late to the next phase
Because he puts 100% into everything. He is the Richie McCaw of this team. Huge motor.
@kev said in All Blacks vs England 2:
@voodoo said in All Blacks vs England 2:
Why does Scott Barrett do that half-arsed chargedown attempt at every single oppo ruck box-clearance? I don't feel like he's got one since 1993 and it just leaves him late to the next phase
Because he puts 100% into everything. He is the Richie McCaw of this team. Huge motor.
He's been A++ for effort. Handled the captaincy well too.
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@nostrildamus Not too many changes, I think - and will depend on who is fit and match ready.
I'd expect, Perenara back at 9 if he's fit. Probably Clarke for Telea.
Maybe Jacobsen or Blackadder for Finau.
Possibly Beauden at fullback and Jordan (if fit) from the bench.
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As much as our midfield and Loosies aren't "firing" on attack. What is clear in the game is there are a lot of opportunities going begging due to poor option taking and/or being conservative and taking contact instead of getting a pop away.
Reminiscent of the last regime but I'm willing to see it play out and hopefully click once everyone is comfortable.
The other thing to think about in test rugby is the old safe storage of dry powder. Don't even open the doors to the barn if you don't need to, bring it out sparingly.
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@kev said in All Blacks vs England 2:
@voodoo said in All Blacks vs England 2:
Why does Scott Barrett do that half-arsed chargedown attempt at every single oppo ruck box-clearance? I don't feel like he's got one since 1993 and it just leaves him late to the next phase
Because he puts 100% into everything. He is the Richie McCaw of this team. Huge motor.
He's been A++ for effort. Handled the captaincy well too.
@Victor-Meldrew No cards!
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Positives:
BB
Paps
Scrum
Goal kicking
Vaai
Perofeta
Ball retentionThere's not a lot to moan about
