All Blacks vs Fiji
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@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@Kiwiwomble I don't disagree at all that Proctor deserves a chance, but as of right now i think at least one wing and the halfback need to change more, and would like to retain some combinations.
Likewise in the forwards it would be nice to see the other props get a shot, but a very poor lineout and Taylor not going great make Aumua more of a priority.
And I would like to see what both Blackadder and Sititi can offer, but preferably not both at the same time.
It's a new team, new systems, and every game early on is an opportunity to build continuity - so once you've picked a side you don't want to make wholesale changes - which is also a reason I was disappointed with the conservative initial selections.I'd argue that the Barrett/Proctor combination is more comfortable than the Barrett/Ioane combo so I don't see too much risk having an extra newbie in there.
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@Canes4life that's fair, but rieko ought to have more established combos with telea, reece, perofeta, BB.
@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@Canes4life that's fair, but rieko ought to have more established combos with telea, reece, perofeta, BB.
Except I think only Beaudy will start from that lot this week.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@Canes4life that's fair, but rieko ought to have more established combos with telea, reece, perofeta, BB.
Except I think only Beaudy will start from that lot this week.
@Canes4life which comes back to my whole point - wholesale changes mean you learn nothing, and gain nothing in terms of useful combinations for when one of the top XV gets injured.
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@Canes4life which comes back to my whole point - wholesale changes mean you learn nothing, and gain nothing in terms of useful combinations for when one of the top XV gets injured.
@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@Canes4life which comes back to my whole point - wholesale changes mean you learn nothing, and gain nothing in terms of useful combinations for when one of the top XV gets injured.
I disagree, I think this is the perfect opportunity to test out a few new faces. Giving starting opportunities to Aumua, Proctor, Ratima and Sititi, with a few more guys off the bench is a no brainer. There is still enough experience out there to manage things if it gets tough but I don't think it will. We should win this with ease and if we don't then it will show that a few guys aren't ready for bigger occasions.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@Canes4life which comes back to my whole point - wholesale changes mean you learn nothing, and gain nothing in terms of useful combinations for when one of the top XV gets injured.
I disagree, I think this is the perfect opportunity to test out a few new faces. Giving starting opportunities to Aumua, Proctor, Ratima and Sititi, with a few more guys off the bench is a no brainer. There is still enough experience out there to manage things if it gets tough but I don't think it will. We should win this with ease and if we don't then it will show that a few guys aren't ready for bigger occasions.
@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@Canes4life which comes back to my whole point - wholesale changes mean you learn nothing, and gain nothing in terms of useful combinations for when one of the top XV gets injured.
I disagree, I think this is the perfect opportunity to test out a few new faces. Giving starting opportunities to Aumua, Proctor, Ratima and Sititi, with a few more guys off the bench is a no brainer. There is still enough experience out there to manage things if it gets tough but I don't think it will. We should win this with ease and if we don't then it will show that a few guys aren't ready for bigger occasions.
what you disagree with is not that at all, because a few new faces is exactly what i'm advocating for - it's just that your boy proctor isn't one of the few new faces i'd pick right now.
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@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@Canes4life which comes back to my whole point - wholesale changes mean you learn nothing, and gain nothing in terms of useful combinations for when one of the top XV gets injured.
I disagree, I think this is the perfect opportunity to test out a few new faces. Giving starting opportunities to Aumua, Proctor, Ratima and Sititi, with a few more guys off the bench is a no brainer. There is still enough experience out there to manage things if it gets tough but I don't think it will. We should win this with ease and if we don't then it will show that a few guys aren't ready for bigger occasions.
what you disagree with is not that at all, because a few new faces is exactly what i'm advocating for - it's just that your boy proctor isn't one of the few new faces i'd pick right now.
@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@Canes4life which comes back to my whole point - wholesale changes mean you learn nothing, and gain nothing in terms of useful combinations for when one of the top XV gets injured.
I disagree, I think this is the perfect opportunity to test out a few new faces. Giving starting opportunities to Aumua, Proctor, Ratima and Sititi, with a few more guys off the bench is a no brainer. There is still enough experience out there to manage things if it gets tough but I don't think it will. We should win this with ease and if we don't then it will show that a few guys aren't ready for bigger occasions.
what you disagree with is not that at all, because a few new faces is exactly what i'm advocating for - it's just that your boy proctor isn't one of the few new faces i'd pick right now.
You just said wholesale changes mean you learn nothing and I'm disagreeing with you. You could change out the whole team, it's still test rugby and you will always learn a thing or two about a player on this stage.
Re Proctor, that's totally fine, you're allowed your own opinion. I think it's the perfect opportunity to throw him out there to show what he's got without the pressure of coming up against the tough opponent. I assume he's in the picture anyway after fronting the media.
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yep, that's what I think. Individuals tend to not shine without combinations, and if you change everybody then the whole team looks disjointed and a bit shit. we still win, but nobody really advances their case, and the combinations that the 2nd-stringers build with each other are not as useful as a 2nd-stringer building combinations with the top guys - because if they get the call up through performance or injury, that's who they'll be playing with. The Dunedin test pre-WC is a perfect example.
Based on the media I assume they'll probably pick Proctor, and I hope he kills it. I also hope they don't pick all of the new guys at the same time - if he's outside hotham, beauden, ALB, with narawa on the wing then it'll be a pointless selection. -
@Canes4life which comes back to my whole point - wholesale changes mean you learn nothing, and gain nothing in terms of useful combinations for when one of the top XV gets injured.
@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
wholesale changes mean you learn nothing
You learn a lot about potential backup due to injuries
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Ioane, who started his career at wing, was potentially one of the culprits. The former scrum-half felt “there were at least three, possibly four, times in that Test match where Rieko had an opportunity to distribute and didn’t”, and that it could cost him his spot in Robertson’s side.
“I’m sure the All Blacks will look at that, they will probably be pretty pleased they did create those three or four chances for him to distribute, which meant they’ve done enough to bring those defenders in,” he told The Platform.
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We’ve got a full squad bar Patrick Tuipulotu,” said All Blacks attack coach Leon MacDonald.
Tuipulotu’s hallmark is his workrate and intensity and it appears that has worn on his body, with the All Blacks opting to give their 45-test lock a rest after playing the England series under a slight injury cloud.
“Patty’s was a decision around his fitness in terms of his body, his return into the [Super Rugby Pacific] final with a knee [injury], he rolled his ankle during that game and then two massive efforts against a really physical England pack. We just feel we need to look after him a little bit,” MacDonald said.
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We’ve got a full squad bar Patrick Tuipulotu,” said All Blacks attack coach Leon MacDonald.
Tuipulotu’s hallmark is his workrate and intensity and it appears that has worn on his body, with the All Blacks opting to give their 45-test lock a rest after playing the England series under a slight injury cloud.
“Patty’s was a decision around his fitness in terms of his body, his return into the [Super Rugby Pacific] final with a knee [injury], he rolled his ankle during that game and then two massive efforts against a really physical England pack. We just feel we need to look after him a little bit,” MacDonald said.
@Tim said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
We’ve got a full squad bar Patrick Tuipulotu,” said All Blacks attack coach Leon MacDonald.
Tuipulotu’s hallmark is his workrate and intensity and it appears that has worn on his body, with the All Blacks opting to give their 45-test lock a rest after playing the England series under a slight injury cloud.
“Patty’s was a decision around his fitness in terms of his body, his return into the [Super Rugby Pacific] final with a knee [injury], he rolled his ankle during that game and then two massive efforts against a really physical England pack. We just feel we need to look after him a little bit,” MacDonald said.
good he needs a rest. But thank you Patty.
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Ioane, who started his career at wing, was potentially one of the culprits. The former scrum-half felt “there were at least three, possibly four, times in that Test match where Rieko had an opportunity to distribute and didn’t”, and that it could cost him his spot in Robertson’s side.
“I’m sure the All Blacks will look at that, they will probably be pretty pleased they did create those three or four chances for him to distribute, which meant they’ve done enough to bring those defenders in,” he told The Platform.
@Winger you know what that article from Marshall needs? fucking videos. Show us the 3 or 4, show us what could have happened with a different play.
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@Winger you know what that article from Marshall needs? fucking videos. Show us the 3 or 4, show us what could have happened with a different play.
@mariner4life i'd be keen to see what he thinks he has seen too as his game analysis is usually more on point than his comms.
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@Winger you know what that article from Marshall needs? fucking videos. Show us the 3 or 4, show us what could have happened with a different play.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@Winger you know what that article from Marshall needs? fucking videos. Show us the 3 or 4, show us what could have happened with a different play.
The reason I posted it is I thought the same during the game
But I haven't got time now to go and look at the game again. But IMO Reiko is too good to leave out but he's not a natural centre. And never well be. Unlike Savea or Tana who were fine at 2nd 5 or centre as they both like passing and are / were good passers and decision makers. Reiko prefers running with the ball not passing it. Hes a wing and should be moved back there. With Clarke
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@Winger you know what that article from Marshall needs? fucking videos. Show us the 3 or 4, show us what could have happened with a different play.
The reason I posted it is I thought the same during the game
But I haven't got time now to go and look at the game again. But IMO Reiko is too good to leave out but he's not a natural centre. And never well be. Unlike Savea or Tana who were fine at 2nd 5 or centre as they both like passing and are / were good passers and decision makers. Reiko prefers running with the ball not passing it. Hes a wing and should be moved back there. With Clarke
Those days are gone, he's what, 27?
His future as an AB is at 13, 23, or as a squaddie.
If you want Proctor, make that argument.
You look at Telea (4 months older) who is hitting the golden age of not being young and fast enough for an AB wing spot.
Also, both Rieko and Clarke were/are best at 11, so your idea puts one of them on the wrong side anyway.
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There were definitely three opportunities that I noticed where Ioane could have passed on Saturday night and there were a few in the test prior. This, coupled with the fact he hasn't had the most dominant season for the Blues means things aren't coming naturally to him at the moment.
Don't get me wrong though, Ioane has made huge strides at 13 over the last couple of years and he will get more opportunity there but I'd like us to give Proctor a go because he's been the form centre in NZ all year, showing the sort of form and skill set that these AB selectors are clearly after.
Who knows, Ioane took Julian's spot when no one saw it coming, Proctor might just do the same to him if he can take his opportunities with both hands. That's the sort of competition we want though, it will only push Ioane to be better and more accurate in his play knowing he has someone right on his heels.
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Those days are gone, he's what, 27?
His future as an AB is at 13, 23, or as a squaddie.
If you want Proctor, make that argument.
You look at Telea (4 months older) who is hitting the golden age of not being young and fast enough for an AB wing spot.
Also, both Rieko and Clarke were/are best at 11, so your idea puts one of them on the wrong side anyway.
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There were definitely three opportunities that I noticed where Ioane could have passed on Saturday night and there were a few in the test prior. This, coupled with the fact he hasn't had the most dominant season for the Blues means things aren't coming naturally to him at the moment.
Don't get me wrong though, Ioane has made huge strides at 13 over the last couple of years and he will get more opportunity there but I'd like us to give Proctor a go because he's been the form centre in NZ all year, showing the sort of form and skill set that these AB selectors are clearly after.
Who knows, Ioane took Julian's spot when no one saw it coming, Proctor might just do the same to him if he can take his opportunities with both hands. That's the sort of competition we want though, it will only push Ioane to be better and more accurate in his play knowing he has someone right on his heels.
@Canes4life there were two or three times in the two tests where had Rieko been at 11, he’d have run it in, and most likely ended up under the sticks.
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Ioane, who started his career at wing, was potentially one of the culprits. The former scrum-half felt “there were at least three, possibly four, times in that Test match where Rieko had an opportunity to distribute and didn’t”, and that it could cost him his spot in Robertson’s side.
“I’m sure the All Blacks will look at that, they will probably be pretty pleased they did create those three or four chances for him to distribute, which meant they’ve done enough to bring those defenders in,” he told The Platform.
@Winger said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
Ioane, who started his career at wing, was potentially one of the culprits. The former scrum-half felt “there were at least three, possibly four, times in that Test match where Rieko had an opportunity to distribute and didn’t”, and that it could cost him his spot in Robertson’s side.
“I’m sure the All Blacks will look at that, they will probably be pretty pleased they did create those three or four chances for him to distribute, which meant they’ve done enough to bring those defenders in,” he told The Platform.
Marshall isn't a big fan of either Ioane .. potentially biased..
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Maybe we should also compliment the English forwards?
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
Maybe we should also compliment the English forwards?
Yes, everytime De Groot and Lomax were trying to drive, they had to face two or three English tacklers. So it was hard for them to win many meters in those conditions. Moreover, they were standing still when Christie threw them the pill. Did Ofa T and Newell won more meters from their carries ?
