All Blacks vs Fiji
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@Winger you know what that article from Marshall needs? fucking videos. Show us the 3 or 4, show us what could have happened with a different play.
The reason I posted it is I thought the same during the game
But I haven't got time now to go and look at the game again. But IMO Reiko is too good to leave out but he's not a natural centre. And never well be. Unlike Savea or Tana who were fine at 2nd 5 or centre as they both like passing and are / were good passers and decision makers. Reiko prefers running with the ball not passing it. Hes a wing and should be moved back there. With Clarke
Those days are gone, he's what, 27?
His future as an AB is at 13, 23, or as a squaddie.
If you want Proctor, make that argument.
You look at Telea (4 months older) who is hitting the golden age of not being young and fast enough for an AB wing spot.
Also, both Rieko and Clarke were/are best at 11, so your idea puts one of them on the wrong side anyway.
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There were definitely three opportunities that I noticed where Ioane could have passed on Saturday night and there were a few in the test prior. This, coupled with the fact he hasn't had the most dominant season for the Blues means things aren't coming naturally to him at the moment.
Don't get me wrong though, Ioane has made huge strides at 13 over the last couple of years and he will get more opportunity there but I'd like us to give Proctor a go because he's been the form centre in NZ all year, showing the sort of form and skill set that these AB selectors are clearly after.
Who knows, Ioane took Julian's spot when no one saw it coming, Proctor might just do the same to him if he can take his opportunities with both hands. That's the sort of competition we want though, it will only push Ioane to be better and more accurate in his play knowing he has someone right on his heels.
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Those days are gone, he's what, 27?
His future as an AB is at 13, 23, or as a squaddie.
If you want Proctor, make that argument.
You look at Telea (4 months older) who is hitting the golden age of not being young and fast enough for an AB wing spot.
Also, both Rieko and Clarke were/are best at 11, so your idea puts one of them on the wrong side anyway.
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There were definitely three opportunities that I noticed where Ioane could have passed on Saturday night and there were a few in the test prior. This, coupled with the fact he hasn't had the most dominant season for the Blues means things aren't coming naturally to him at the moment.
Don't get me wrong though, Ioane has made huge strides at 13 over the last couple of years and he will get more opportunity there but I'd like us to give Proctor a go because he's been the form centre in NZ all year, showing the sort of form and skill set that these AB selectors are clearly after.
Who knows, Ioane took Julian's spot when no one saw it coming, Proctor might just do the same to him if he can take his opportunities with both hands. That's the sort of competition we want though, it will only push Ioane to be better and more accurate in his play knowing he has someone right on his heels.
@Canes4life there were two or three times in the two tests where had Rieko been at 11, he’d have run it in, and most likely ended up under the sticks.
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Ioane, who started his career at wing, was potentially one of the culprits. The former scrum-half felt “there were at least three, possibly four, times in that Test match where Rieko had an opportunity to distribute and didn’t”, and that it could cost him his spot in Robertson’s side.
“I’m sure the All Blacks will look at that, they will probably be pretty pleased they did create those three or four chances for him to distribute, which meant they’ve done enough to bring those defenders in,” he told The Platform.
@Winger said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
Ioane, who started his career at wing, was potentially one of the culprits. The former scrum-half felt “there were at least three, possibly four, times in that Test match where Rieko had an opportunity to distribute and didn’t”, and that it could cost him his spot in Robertson’s side.
“I’m sure the All Blacks will look at that, they will probably be pretty pleased they did create those three or four chances for him to distribute, which meant they’ve done enough to bring those defenders in,” he told The Platform.
Marshall isn't a big fan of either Ioane .. potentially biased..
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Maybe we should also compliment the English forwards?
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
Maybe we should also compliment the English forwards?
Yes, everytime De Groot and Lomax were trying to drive, they had to face two or three English tacklers. So it was hard for them to win many meters in those conditions. Moreover, they were standing still when Christie threw them the pill. Did Ofa T and Newell won more meters from their carries ?
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
Maybe we should also compliment the English forwards?
Yes, everytime De Groot and Lomax were trying to drive, they had to face two or three English tacklers. So it was hard for them to win many meters in those conditions. Moreover, they were standing still when Christie threw them the pill. Did Ofa T and Newell won more meters from their carries ?
@cgrant said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
Maybe we should also compliment the English forwards?
Yes, everytime De Groot and Lomax were trying to drive, they had to face two or three English tacklers. So it was hard for them to win many meters in those conditions. Moreover, they were standing still when Christie threw them the pill. Did Ofa T and Newell won more meters from their carries ?
Will be interesting to see if the forwards get more go forward with Ratima or Roigard passing them the ball
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@cgrant said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
Maybe we should also compliment the English forwards?
Yes, everytime De Groot and Lomax were trying to drive, they had to face two or three English tacklers. So it was hard for them to win many meters in those conditions. Moreover, they were standing still when Christie threw them the pill. Did Ofa T and Newell won more meters from their carries ?
Will be interesting to see if the forwards get more go forward with Ratima or Roigard passing them the ball
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@cgrant said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
Maybe we should also compliment the English forwards?
Yes, everytime De Groot and Lomax were trying to drive, they had to face two or three English tacklers. So it was hard for them to win many meters in those conditions. Moreover, they were standing still when Christie threw them the pill. Did Ofa T and Newell won more meters from their carries ?
Will be interesting to see if the forwards get more go forward with Ratima or Roigard passing them the ball
I would think even if it's Perenara, at least there's a threat from the halfback too, so the defence has to hesitate, which isn't the case with Christie.
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I did hear that the team will still be named on Thu. They wouldn't want to break with tradition!
@Bovidae said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
I did hear that the team will still be named on Thu. They wouldn't want to break with tradition!
Phew.
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@Kirwan said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
Darry in for Patrick in the squad to rest Patricks body. Full squad travelled
So - why not name him in the squad? Weird only taking 3 locks
@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
Darry in for Patrick in the squad to rest Patricks body. Full squad travelled
So - why not name him in the squad? Weird only taking 3 locks
Finau covers lock.
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yep, that's what I think. Individuals tend to not shine without combinations, and if you change everybody then the whole team looks disjointed and a bit shit. we still win, but nobody really advances their case, and the combinations that the 2nd-stringers build with each other are not as useful as a 2nd-stringer building combinations with the top guys - because if they get the call up through performance or injury, that's who they'll be playing with. The Dunedin test pre-WC is a perfect example.
Based on the media I assume they'll probably pick Proctor, and I hope he kills it. I also hope they don't pick all of the new guys at the same time - if he's outside hotham, beauden, ALB, with narawa on the wing then it'll be a pointless selection.@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
yep, that's what I think. Individuals tend to not shine without combinations, and if you change everybody then the whole team looks disjointed and a bit shit. we still win, but nobody really advances their case, and the combinations that the 2nd-stringers build with each other are not as useful as a 2nd-stringer building combinations with the top guys - because if they get the call up through performance or injury, that's who they'll be playing with. The Dunedin test pre-WC is a perfect example.
Based on the media I assume they'll probably pick Proctor, and I hope he kills it. I also hope they don't pick all of the new guys at the same time - if he's outside hotham, beauden, ALB, with narawa on the wing then it'll be a pointless selection.If we want to assess Proctor versus Rieko we need to see him outside DMac and Jordie, although the oppo factor is still very significant. Otherwise multiple variables seriously cloud the comparison.
One could argue the same with loose forwards: change one to see how the balance is affected.
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Yes but if Jordie goes down are we not in bigger trouble?
Seriously our entire backline activity changes completely if hes off.
ALB would take his place but he is a very different 12 and hes been playing at 13 when he comes on has he not? -
@Winger said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
Ioane, who started his career at wing, was potentially one of the culprits. The former scrum-half felt “there were at least three, possibly four, times in that Test match where Rieko had an opportunity to distribute and didn’t”, and that it could cost him his spot in Robertson’s side.
“I’m sure the All Blacks will look at that, they will probably be pretty pleased they did create those three or four chances for him to distribute, which meant they’ve done enough to bring those defenders in,” he told The Platform.
Marshall isn't a big fan of either Ioane .. potentially biased..
@Mattasaurus said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@Winger said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
Ioane, who started his career at wing, was potentially one of the culprits. The former scrum-half felt “there were at least three, possibly four, times in that Test match where Rieko had an opportunity to distribute and didn’t”, and that it could cost him his spot in Robertson’s side.
“I’m sure the All Blacks will look at that, they will probably be pretty pleased they did create those three or four chances for him to distribute, which meant they’ve done enough to bring those defenders in,” he told The Platform.
Marshall isn't a big fan of either Ioane .. potentially biased..
Marshall has given Akira a fighting chance.
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Yes but if Jordie goes down are we not in bigger trouble?
Seriously our entire backline activity changes completely if hes off.
ALB would take his place but he is a very different 12 and hes been playing at 13 when he comes on has he not?@Lancaster-Park said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
Yes but if Jordie goes down are we not in bigger trouble?
Seriously our entire backline activity changes completely if hes off.
ALB would take his place but he is a very different 12 and hes been playing at 13 when he comes on has he not?Or put Proctor to 12?
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If you want run metres from the front row, you need to select differently. Aumua for a start, then Williams. I assume Tosi goes okay too?
@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
If you want run metres from the front row, you need to select differently. Aumua for a start, then Williams. I assume Tosi goes okay too?
Aumua, Tosi, Xavier Numia - would be nice to see how he would go.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
yep, that's what I think. Individuals tend to not shine without combinations, and if you change everybody then the whole team looks disjointed and a bit shit. we still win, but nobody really advances their case, and the combinations that the 2nd-stringers build with each other are not as useful as a 2nd-stringer building combinations with the top guys - because if they get the call up through performance or injury, that's who they'll be playing with. The Dunedin test pre-WC is a perfect example.
Based on the media I assume they'll probably pick Proctor, and I hope he kills it. I also hope they don't pick all of the new guys at the same time - if he's outside hotham, beauden, ALB, with narawa on the wing then it'll be a pointless selection.If we want to assess Proctor versus Rieko we need to see him outside DMac and Jordie, although the oppo factor is still very significant. Otherwise multiple variables seriously cloud the comparison.
One could argue the same with loose forwards: change one to see how the balance is affected.
@pakman said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
If we want to assess Proctor versus Rieko we need to see him outside DMac and Jordie, although the oppo factor is still very significant. Otherwise multiple variables seriously cloud the comparison.
One could argue the same with loose forwards: change one to see how the balance is affected.
exactly, and it's not just assessment: if we want proctor to slot in seamlessly if rieko gets injured, then that is the combination we should be working on.
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Yes but if Jordie goes down are we not in bigger trouble?
Seriously our entire backline activity changes completely if hes off.
ALB would take his place but he is a very different 12 and hes been playing at 13 when he comes on has he not?@Lancaster-Park said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
Yes but if Jordie goes down are we not in bigger trouble?
Seriously our entire backline activity changes completely if hes off.
ALB would take his place but he is a very different 12 and hes been playing at 13 when he comes on has he not?Yep, which is a serious selection issue.
If we aren't intending to change the game plan if JB gets injured, then we ought to have a similar style 12 in the squad... I assume the argument would have been 'but there isn't one' - with Lam a novice at 12, Tupaea not convincing on his return yet, Rona, Poihipi etc not at that level yet, and McLeod having stunk super up. -
If you want run metres from the front row, you need to select differently. Aumua for a start, then Williams. I assume Tosi goes okay too?
@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
If you want run metres from the front row, you need to select differently. Aumua for a start, then Williams. I assume Tosi goes okay too?
While everyone would prefer that our All Blacks were the bestest at every element of the game, I'm happy to take weapons at their core roles and for front row, that's scrummaging (which is currently a massive weapon/ game losing liability depending on capability) over making line breaks while the opposition are fresh, willing and capable.
I think the payoff for the slightly more athletic guys comes around the 50th minute mark as per the adage you have to earn the right...
