All Blacks vs Fiji
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Yes but if Jordie goes down are we not in bigger trouble?
Seriously our entire backline activity changes completely if hes off.
ALB would take his place but he is a very different 12 and hes been playing at 13 when he comes on has he not?@Lancaster-Park said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
Yes but if Jordie goes down are we not in bigger trouble?
Seriously our entire backline activity changes completely if hes off.
ALB would take his place but he is a very different 12 and hes been playing at 13 when he comes on has he not?Or put Proctor to 12?
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If you want run metres from the front row, you need to select differently. Aumua for a start, then Williams. I assume Tosi goes okay too?
@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
If you want run metres from the front row, you need to select differently. Aumua for a start, then Williams. I assume Tosi goes okay too?
Aumua, Tosi, Xavier Numia - would be nice to see how he would go.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
yep, that's what I think. Individuals tend to not shine without combinations, and if you change everybody then the whole team looks disjointed and a bit shit. we still win, but nobody really advances their case, and the combinations that the 2nd-stringers build with each other are not as useful as a 2nd-stringer building combinations with the top guys - because if they get the call up through performance or injury, that's who they'll be playing with. The Dunedin test pre-WC is a perfect example.
Based on the media I assume they'll probably pick Proctor, and I hope he kills it. I also hope they don't pick all of the new guys at the same time - if he's outside hotham, beauden, ALB, with narawa on the wing then it'll be a pointless selection.If we want to assess Proctor versus Rieko we need to see him outside DMac and Jordie, although the oppo factor is still very significant. Otherwise multiple variables seriously cloud the comparison.
One could argue the same with loose forwards: change one to see how the balance is affected.
@pakman said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
If we want to assess Proctor versus Rieko we need to see him outside DMac and Jordie, although the oppo factor is still very significant. Otherwise multiple variables seriously cloud the comparison.
One could argue the same with loose forwards: change one to see how the balance is affected.
exactly, and it's not just assessment: if we want proctor to slot in seamlessly if rieko gets injured, then that is the combination we should be working on.
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Yes but if Jordie goes down are we not in bigger trouble?
Seriously our entire backline activity changes completely if hes off.
ALB would take his place but he is a very different 12 and hes been playing at 13 when he comes on has he not?@Lancaster-Park said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
Yes but if Jordie goes down are we not in bigger trouble?
Seriously our entire backline activity changes completely if hes off.
ALB would take his place but he is a very different 12 and hes been playing at 13 when he comes on has he not?Yep, which is a serious selection issue.
If we aren't intending to change the game plan if JB gets injured, then we ought to have a similar style 12 in the squad... I assume the argument would have been 'but there isn't one' - with Lam a novice at 12, Tupaea not convincing on his return yet, Rona, Poihipi etc not at that level yet, and McLeod having stunk super up. -
If you want run metres from the front row, you need to select differently. Aumua for a start, then Williams. I assume Tosi goes okay too?
@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
If you want run metres from the front row, you need to select differently. Aumua for a start, then Williams. I assume Tosi goes okay too?
While everyone would prefer that our All Blacks were the bestest at every element of the game, I'm happy to take weapons at their core roles and for front row, that's scrummaging (which is currently a massive weapon/ game losing liability depending on capability) over making line breaks while the opposition are fresh, willing and capable.
I think the payoff for the slightly more athletic guys comes around the 50th minute mark as per the adage you have to earn the right...
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@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
If you want run metres from the front row, you need to select differently. Aumua for a start, then Williams. I assume Tosi goes okay too?
While everyone would prefer that our All Blacks were the bestest at every element of the game, I'm happy to take weapons at their core roles and for front row, that's scrummaging (which is currently a massive weapon/ game losing liability depending on capability) over making line breaks while the opposition are fresh, willing and capable.
I think the payoff for the slightly more athletic guys comes around the 50th minute mark as per the adage you have to earn the right...
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
If you want run metres from the front row, you need to select differently. Aumua for a start, then Williams. I assume Tosi goes okay too?
While everyone would prefer that out All Blacks were the bestest at every element f the game, I'm happy to take weapons at their core roles and for front row, that's scrummaging (which is currently a massive weapon/ game losing liability depending on capability) over making line breaks while thee opposition are fresh, willing and capable.
I think the payoff for the slightly more athletic guys comes around the 50th minute mark as per the adage you have to earn the right...
Yeah, I wouldn't want to sacrifice the scrum. The pack as a whole does need ball runners though - it's not really a strength right now.
We only have 3 locks (and 4 wingers, grumble grumble), and our guys are okay - there are not many who can be brutal runners and tall enough to be elite lineout forwards.
Savea is decent, kind of... but it's all leg drive and 2nd effort. More often than not you don't really gain quick ruck ball with the defence on the back foot from his runs, because he takes a long time to make a couple of extra metres and a long time to go to ground. The defensive line has plenty of time to align - so while it's amazing strength and effort, it doesn't actually achieve much.
Paps is a tackler, not a runner.
Finau is a hard straight runner, which is what we're lacking - but he ain't showing it yet. I reckon Sititi looks like the guy in the squad as far as loosies hitting it up goes, so hopefully he gets a run.
We are missing Samisoni. He is powerful enough to make yards and get momentum against a set defence. I'd love to see him start and Aumua come on late. But then if we keep Taylor and drop Aumua we don't gain that much anyway. -
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
Maybe we should also compliment the English forwards?
Yes, everytime De Groot and Lomax were trying to drive, they had to face two or three English tacklers. So it was hard for them to win many meters in those conditions. Moreover, they were standing still when Christie threw them the pill. Did Ofa T and Newell won more meters from their carries ?
@cgrant said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
Maybe we should also compliment the English forwards?
...... Moreover, they were standing still when Christie threw them the pill. Did Ofa T and Newell won more meters from their carries ?
im not the only one that noticed this (probably talked about in the match thread)....very flat footed and often made it worse after they got the ball by doing a little two step on the before just leaning into the tackle
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@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
If you want run metres from the front row, you need to select differently. Aumua for a start, then Williams. I assume Tosi goes okay too?
While everyone would prefer that out All Blacks were the bestest at every element f the game, I'm happy to take weapons at their core roles and for front row, that's scrummaging (which is currently a massive weapon/ game losing liability depending on capability) over making line breaks while thee opposition are fresh, willing and capable.
I think the payoff for the slightly more athletic guys comes around the 50th minute mark as per the adage you have to earn the right...
Yeah, I wouldn't want to sacrifice the scrum. The pack as a whole does need ball runners though - it's not really a strength right now.
We only have 3 locks (and 4 wingers, grumble grumble), and our guys are okay - there are not many who can be brutal runners and tall enough to be elite lineout forwards.
Savea is decent, kind of... but it's all leg drive and 2nd effort. More often than not you don't really gain quick ruck ball with the defence on the back foot from his runs, because he takes a long time to make a couple of extra metres and a long time to go to ground. The defensive line has plenty of time to align - so while it's amazing strength and effort, it doesn't actually achieve much.
Paps is a tackler, not a runner.
Finau is a hard straight runner, which is what we're lacking - but he ain't showing it yet. I reckon Sititi looks like the guy in the squad as far as loosies hitting it up goes, so hopefully he gets a run.
We are missing Samisoni. He is powerful enough to make yards and get momentum against a set defence. I'd love to see him start and Aumua come on late. But then if we keep Taylor and drop Aumua we don't gain that much anyway.@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
If you want run metres from the front row, you need to select differently. Aumua for a start, then Williams. I assume Tosi goes okay too?
While everyone would prefer that out All Blacks were the bestest at every element f the game, I'm happy to take weapons at their core roles and for front row, that's scrummaging (which is currently a massive weapon/ game losing liability depending on capability) over making line breaks while thee opposition are fresh, willing and capable.
I think the payoff for the slightly more athletic guys comes around the 50th minute mark as per the adage you have to earn the right...
Yeah, I wouldn't want to sacrifice the scrum. The pack as a whole does need ball runners though - it's not really a strength right now.
We only have 3 locks (and 4 wingers, grumble grumble), and our guys are okay - there are not many who can be brutal runners and tall enough to be elite lineout forwards.
Savea is decent, kind of... but it's all leg drive and 2nd effort. More often than not you don't really gain quick ruck ball with the defence on the back foot from his runs, because he takes a long time to make a couple of extra metres and a long time to go to ground. The defensive line has plenty of time to align - so while it's amazing strength and effort, it doesn't actually achieve much.
Paps is a tackler, not a runner.
Finau is a hard straight runner, which is what we're lacking - but he ain't showing it yet. I reckon Sititi looks like the guy in the squad as far as loosies hitting it up goes, so hopefully he gets a run.
We are missing Samisoni. He is powerful enough to make yards and get momentum against a set defence. I'd love to see him start and Aumua come on late. But then if we keep Taylor and drop Aumua we don't gain that much anyway.I'm of the strongly held opinion that quick ruck ball would help alleviate these problems more than selectorial changes to the forwards. Even if the first couple don't make metres, good cleans and rapid movement of the ball overwhelms the defence. I.e. the antichristie selection.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
If you want run metres from the front row, you need to select differently. Aumua for a start, then Williams. I assume Tosi goes okay too?
While everyone would prefer that out All Blacks were the bestest at every element f the game, I'm happy to take weapons at their core roles and for front row, that's scrummaging (which is currently a massive weapon/ game losing liability depending on capability) over making line breaks while thee opposition are fresh, willing and capable.
I think the payoff for the slightly more athletic guys comes around the 50th minute mark as per the adage you have to earn the right...
Yeah, I wouldn't want to sacrifice the scrum. The pack as a whole does need ball runners though - it's not really a strength right now.
We only have 3 locks (and 4 wingers, grumble grumble), and our guys are okay - there are not many who can be brutal runners and tall enough to be elite lineout forwards.
Savea is decent, kind of... but it's all leg drive and 2nd effort. More often than not you don't really gain quick ruck ball with the defence on the back foot from his runs, because he takes a long time to make a couple of extra metres and a long time to go to ground. The defensive line has plenty of time to align - so while it's amazing strength and effort, it doesn't actually achieve much.
Paps is a tackler, not a runner.
Finau is a hard straight runner, which is what we're lacking - but he ain't showing it yet. I reckon Sititi looks like the guy in the squad as far as loosies hitting it up goes, so hopefully he gets a run.
We are missing Samisoni. He is powerful enough to make yards and get momentum against a set defence. I'd love to see him start and Aumua come on late. But then if we keep Taylor and drop Aumua we don't gain that much anyway.I'm of the strongly held opinion that quick ruck ball would help alleviate these problems more than selectorial changes to the forwards. Even if the first couple don't make metres, good cleans and rapid movement of the ball overwhelms the defence. I.e. the antichristie selection.
@antipodean antichristie is pretty good bro.
totally agree that if the ball is quick and the defence is on the back foot then most anyone can make metres. I do think it helps a lot to have a couple of options to get you that initial bit of momentum though.
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Your forwards also need to be getting the ball at pace, not being stationary and then trying to generate some forward momentum.
@Bovidae said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
Your forwards also need to be getting the ball at pace, not being stationary and then trying to generate some forward momentum.
Yes, but as a runner you need confidence that when you can see the ball is available to start running safe in the knowledge the ball will quickly and accurately come to where you'll be.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
If you want run metres from the front row, you need to select differently. Aumua for a start, then Williams. I assume Tosi goes okay too?
While everyone would prefer that out All Blacks were the bestest at every element f the game, I'm happy to take weapons at their core roles and for front row, that's scrummaging (which is currently a massive weapon/ game losing liability depending on capability) over making line breaks while thee opposition are fresh, willing and capable.
I think the payoff for the slightly more athletic guys comes around the 50th minute mark as per the adage you have to earn the right...
Yeah, I wouldn't want to sacrifice the scrum. The pack as a whole does need ball runners though - it's not really a strength right now.
We only have 3 locks (and 4 wingers, grumble grumble), and our guys are okay - there are not many who can be brutal runners and tall enough to be elite lineout forwards.
Savea is decent, kind of... but it's all leg drive and 2nd effort. More often than not you don't really gain quick ruck ball with the defence on the back foot from his runs, because he takes a long time to make a couple of extra metres and a long time to go to ground. The defensive line has plenty of time to align - so while it's amazing strength and effort, it doesn't actually achieve much.
Paps is a tackler, not a runner.
Finau is a hard straight runner, which is what we're lacking - but he ain't showing it yet. I reckon Sititi looks like the guy in the squad as far as loosies hitting it up goes, so hopefully he gets a run.
We are missing Samisoni. He is powerful enough to make yards and get momentum against a set defence. I'd love to see him start and Aumua come on late. But then if we keep Taylor and drop Aumua we don't gain that much anyway.@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
We are missing Samisoni. He is powerful enough to make yards and get momentum against a set defence. I'd love to see him start and Aumua come on late. But then if we keep Taylor and drop Aumua we don't gain that much anyway.
Unsure why they don't bring on Aumua earlier. Especially when Taylor is having a poorish game
Team needs better ball carriers. And passers.
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@Machpants said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
Team gets named at 11am on Thursday.
NZT? Or yank time?
NZ time
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
Your forwards also need to be getting the ball at pace, not being stationary and then trying to generate some forward momentum.
Yes, but as a runner you need confidence that when you can see the ball is available to start running safe in the knowledge the ball will quickly and accurately come to where you'll be.
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
Your forwards also need to be getting the ball at pace, not being stationary and then trying to generate some forward momentum.
Yes, but as a runner you need confidence that when you can see the ball is available to start running safe in the knowledge the ball will quickly and accurately come to where you'll be.
A fleet footed quick passing 9 is invaluable. As good as TJP was during SR, I don't think it was a coincidence that the Canes forwards seemed to be more lethal running in the first half of the season
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@Lancaster-Park said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
Yes but if Jordie goes down are we not in bigger trouble?
Seriously our entire backline activity changes completely if hes off.
ALB would take his place but he is a very different 12 and hes been playing at 13 when he comes on has he not?Or put Proctor to 12?
@pakman said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@Lancaster-Park said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
Yes but if Jordie goes down are we not in bigger trouble?
Seriously our entire backline activity changes completely if hes off.
ALB would take his place but he is a very different 12 and hes been playing at 13 when he comes on has he not?Or put Proctor to 12?
if they play new people I hope they play them first in their preferred position.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
We are missing Samisoni. He is powerful enough to make yards and get momentum against a set defence. I'd love to see him start and Aumua come on late. But then if we keep Taylor and drop Aumua we don't gain that much anyway.
Unsure why they don't bring on Aumua earlier. Especially when Taylor is having a poorish game
Team needs better ball carriers. And passers.
@Winger said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
We are missing Samisoni. He is powerful enough to make yards and get momentum against a set defence. I'd love to see him start and Aumua come on late. But then if we keep Taylor and drop Aumua we don't gain that much anyway.
Unsure why they don't bring on Aumua earlier. Especially when Taylor is having a poorish game
Team needs better ball carriers. And passers.
Gotta say Aumua has looked good so far, and I think lineouts were better when he arrived? But I might have got that wrong..
