Fix the Wallabies

rotated

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="610234" data-time="1472378682">
<div>I realise you don't rate Cheika, so now if we're talking overseas coaches - what's your plan?</div>
</blockquote>
 
I actually put a bit of thought into this and it's a pretty tricky thought exercise.
 
For example I reckon the ARU and it's subsidiaries have a poor reputation when it comes to being a good employer. That's going to make things hard for recruiting top tier coaching talent. So it's all well and good to give a list of names and say make a coaching staff from that - but truth is you've run off so many decent coaches with the politics and petulance amongst the playing group, ex players, stakeholders and management that it's going to be hard to give up a well paying job at the NTT Shining Arcs in the case of Rob Penny for a job where the pattern is well known - no support, factions, culture of player power winning the day. Especially if you are trying to get coaches from NZ and coaching the rival is a headache you would rather avoid all else being equal.
 
So you need to pony up big bucks to get the right talent. This is what England is doing now and unfortunately Aussie are going to have to do. Instead of having two assistants whose coaching experience is limited to 4 years of assistant coaching experience at the Super rugby level (now Larkham has one year of head coaching experience) - look at guys with extensive head coaching experience. There are dozens of them out there. Just as an example though I would say someone like Tana Umaga is ideally underqualified to be an assistant for the Wallabies for the type of rebuild they require. Like really you want guys that have at least 10-15 years of serious coaching experience minimum. At least three.
 
In terms of style of play I mean you can bitch and complain about refereeing, meetings, mental attitude, niggle etc but at the end of the day skills areas like transition between attack and defense, making tackles, and the line out are the worst I've seen from an Australian team. Those are all entirely within Australia's control. And you know what 10 months ago England were the worst I'd ever seen them in those key skill areas - plus a few more like kicking from hand and they turned it around pretty quickly. But I don't think it's even worth getting into the style of play and tactics before those key areas are addressed.
 
The first training sessions for Daniel Anderson had with the Warriors are legendary. He started with having them running with ball in hand. Just running using correct form - many couldn't do that. Then they progressed to passing with correct form - and shockingly they discovered many of the forwards couldn't even throw a decent pass. Anyway they quickly moved on from there and made the finals that season, won the minor premiership the next year and went to the grand final. Not saying Australia's issues are as basic as that but when our locks have better passing form than your outside backs and our outside backs generate more power and dominance in the tackle than your loose forwards and locks I think the basic skills are a really good place to start. Maybe have Moore work on his throwing - that kind of thing.
 
And really they need to review that right through the Super franchises, ideally you would have the assistants working with the franchises to make sure those skills are getting passed down. The quality of Super Rugby is further from international standard than ever before so it's easier to thrive while still having gaping holes in your game cough Quade cough Pocock cough.
 
Unfortunately it is a very tough place to return to after you spent last year selling the message that you are breathing down the neck of the ABs (or the New Zealand men's national rugby team as Cheika insists they be called) and next year things are going to be even better! Now you have to tell the guys who you just were lauding that they seriously need to improve their basic skills. That's why you need a new coach, a smart coach and one who doesn't drink his own kool-aid.

jegga

Papworth, the aussies should leave Sanzaar <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/83695441/former-wallabies-star-brett-papworth-says-australia-must-quit-sanzar-to-fix-its-flawed-game'>http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/83695441/former-wallabies-star-brett-papworth-says-australia-must-quit-sanzar-to-fix-its-flawed-game</a>

KiwiMurph

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="610561" data-time="1472457356">No doubt its a similar system - and the same coach - to what held Wales out at RWC, won a Bledisloe match, and dished up an England side that was meant to run over us. 
 
Sure, neither NH side was nearly as good as the ABs, but it still worked, and there seemed to be a lot more trust back then in the systems. </blockquote>
 
Things change pretty quickly - in the last three tests youve shipped back to back 40 points and then 4 tries again this week. The thing watching live at the Cake Tin is the defence was so passive and didnt put any pressure on the ABs, it didnt make the ABs have to go to plan B or change tack. Part of the issue is there isnt a lot of offensive tacklers in the Wallabies, one of the few in Aus rugby, McMahon, cant get a run.

NTA

Good post rotated - I've been talking about skills development in Australian Rugby being poor, as well as a lack of opportunities for coaches, for ages. 
 
These aren't overnight fixes. Occasionally we get the cream rise and some special players come together. 
 
 
 
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="jegga" data-cid="610631" data-time="1472496867">
<div>
Papworth, the aussies should leave Sanzaar <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/83695441/former-wallabies-star-brett-papworth-says-australia-must-quit-sanzar-to-fix-its-flawed-game'>http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/83695441/former-wallabies-star-brett-papworth-says-australia-must-quit-sanzar-to-fix-its-flawed-game</a>
</div>
</blockquote>
 
Yeah thanks Pappy. Your shitty little club won't even invest in NRC because you (and others) pissed away your money on trying to win shitty little Sydney Premierships rather than putting your shoulder to the wheel.
 
He's not wrong about the HPU and top-heavy structure. His comment to "create schools competitions" are correct and he's not ex-GPS so isn't quite as smitten with how that is all set up.
 
But if he thinks we're getting out of SANZAAAAAAAAAAR then he's just pissing into the wind.

mariner4life

Papworth is a blow hard fuckwit who thinks the only way forward for Aus rugby is backwards to Sydney Club Rugby being the pinnacle (look at all the great players it produced!).
 
 
Rotated's post is pretty much spot on, but i struggle to believe there aren't people in the ARU who know all that. It would be interesting to know what the focus of the ARU is, and what KPI's they measure themselves by. It's clear the NZRU's main remit is a successful AB team. Everything is structured around that, from player development; player welfare; finances etc it's all set up to produce great test players. How do the ARU measure themselves?

Hooroo

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="mariner4life" data-cid="610686" data-time="1472513715">
<div>
 It would be interesting to know what the focus of the ARU is, and what KPI's they measure themselves by.
</div>
</blockquote>
Willis!

Nepia

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="ACT Crusader" data-cid="610565" data-time="1472457781">
<div>
Easiest way to fix Wallabies is for the final Blesisloe is we throw out a few Mitre 10 warriors

Prattley
Dixon
Kainga
Bird
C. Retallick
Shields 7. Lamborn
Pryor
Hall
Black
McNicholl
Ropiha
Aso
Lowe
Nanai 
Ohh wait....
</div>
</blockquote>
FFS ACT, Lamborn in unavailable as he's played for the USA. ;)
 
Should select Jonah Lowe at 13 so we can have the Lowe-Lowe's.

antipodean

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="mariner4life" data-cid="610686" data-time="1472513715">
<div>
Papworth is a blow hard fuckwit who thinks the only way forward for Aus rugby is backwards to Sydney Club Rugby being the pinnacle (look at all the great players it produced!).
 
 
Rotated's post is pretty much spot on, but i struggle to believe there aren't people in the ARU who know all that. It would be interesting to know what the focus of the ARU is, and what KPI's they measure themselves by. 
</div>
</blockquote>
 
Papworth clearly doesn't understand where the money the ARU is pissing away on Super Rugby comes from.
 
From reading the ARU's reports, it seems player participation is the KPI. Now that they won't mention how many registered players there are anymore.

NTA

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="mariner4life" data-cid="610686" data-time="1472513715">i struggle to believe there aren't people in the ARU who know all that.</blockquote>
 
Go look at the Schoolboy Rugby threads on GAGR to understand why this is. 
People KNOW what we should do, but look at it through the lens of their own self-interest. Therefore as long as their club/school/kid is represented with prominence, they're happy that things are going swimmingly.

pukunui

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="antipodean" data-cid="610700" data-time="1472515875">
<div>
Papworth clearly doesn't understand where the money the ARU is pissing away on Super Rugby comes from.
 
From reading the ARU's reports, it seems player participation is the KPI. Now that they won't mention how many registered players there are anymore.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
I was thinking the same thing when I read that. 
It's not as if there is a broadcaster falling over themselves to get the rights to the NRC or Shute shield that is going to be able to match what they get from Super rugby and TRC.
Where would their money come from? Are they going to request a 7 match Bledisloe series every year? Maybe they wouldn't need any money because all the professional players would leave for Europe and Japan.
Of course this would never happen but can you believe this guy gets paid to write that shit?

Rancid Schnitzel

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="mariner4life" data-cid="610686" data-time="1472513715">
<div>
Papworth is a blow hard fuckwit who thinks the only way forward for Aus rugby is backwards to Sydney Club Rugby being the pinnacle (look at all the great players it produced!).
 
 
Rotated's post is pretty much spot on, but i struggle to believe there aren't people in the ARU who know all that. It would be interesting to know what the focus of the ARU is, and what KPI's they measure themselves by. It's clear the NZRU's main remit is a successful AB team. Everything is structured around that, from player development; player welfare; finances etc it's all set up to produce great test players. How do the ARU measure themselves?
</div>
</blockquote>
 
 
That last point is vitally important. The only way for rugby to grow and stay successful in AUS is for the Wallabies to succeed on the field. It is perhaps the one advantage rugby (see Nepia I didn't call it union then) has over league and AFL, i.e. a genuine international programme.

NTA

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="antipodean" data-cid="610700" data-time="1472515875">Papworth clearly doesn't understand where the money the ARU is pissing away on Super Rugby comes from. 
From reading the ARU's reports, it seems player participation is the KPI. Now that they won't mention how many registered players there are anymore.</blockquote>
 
Because someone called them out on numbers when it became clear they were double- or triple-dipping in some cases: 
1 x schools XV 
1 x rep XV 
1 x club XV 
Same player, headcount 3 
Not to mention the counting of one-day carnival events separately to everything else

Rancid Schnitzel

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="610736" data-time="1472525071">
Because someone called them out on numbers when it became clear they were double- or triple-dipping in some cases: 
1 x schools XV 
1 x rep XV 
1 x club XV 
Same player, headcount 3 
Not to mention the counting of one-day carnival events separately to everything else</blockquote>
 
Do they actually include schools when counting juniors? They didn't used to.

antipodean

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rancid Schnitzel" data-cid="610740" data-time="1472525496">
<div>
Do they actually include schools when counting juniors? They didn't used to.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
They have to to be accurate. Kids play for clubs until they go to high school, in which case they're playing for their school.

Rancid Schnitzel

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="antipodean" data-cid="610751" data-time="1472528723">
<div>
They have to to be accurate. Kids play for clubs until they go to high school, in which case they're playing for their school.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
But there must be a lot of kids who play for school but not for a club.

NTA

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rancid Schnitzel" data-cid="610740" data-time="1472525496">
<div>
Do they actually include schools when counting juniors? They didn't used to.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
Maybe I'm getting the school carnival days mixed up there. 
 
A few years ago there was a case where they were ballsing up the count deliberately to get federal funding. 
 
When player numbers are talked about for any nation, they're pretty useless unless you're saying every one of those people helps contribute to the pyramid of playing talent.
 
Subbies Rugby in Sydney is about the biggest centrally administered comp in the world, with up to 6 divisions at a time fielding anywhere from 1 Grade to 5 Grades + Colts. None of them are likely to front up for a Premier Club.

BartMan

Fix the Wobblies? 
No. 
Let them keep hurting. 
Or step 1. Sack the coach.

Mick Gold Coast QLD

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="610701" data-time="1472515923">
<div>
 
Go look at the Schoolboy Rugby threads on GAGR to understand why this is. People KNOW what we should do, but look at it through the lens of their own self-interest. Therefore as long as their club/school/kid is represented with prominence, they're happy that things are going swimmingly.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
... and it has ever been thus. It is a long time since I was involved at teenage level, with its coterie of insistent, self focused, maniacal parents however I would venture it is far worse now given the potential income on offer.
 
The ARU recently had one who was propelled by that system to the very top whose father, who appeared and conducted himself much like Richard Wilkins, was still not satisfied - he would regularly ring the Super Rugby franchise management and coach complaining about the position his splendid son was being selected in, as if he was still back in the Under 14s with a history teacher as part time coach on Wednesday afternoons.

nostrildamus

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="BartMan" data-cid="610795" data-time="1472545371">
Fix the Wobblies? 
No. 
Let them keep hurting. 
Or step 1. Sack the coach.</blockquote>
I like how you put step 1 at the end..

Mofitzy

Does the Olympic gold affect funding in any significant way?

The Silver Fern

Fix the Wallabies