All Blacks vs Argentina I
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Jeysus some of the doom and gloom on here is doing my head in. 3/3
The coaches have recognised the issues at 6/13 and are working on it. They are saying 6 needs a higher work rate and 13 needs to distribute.
A lot to be happy about:
Vaai and Darry have shown some real steel. Building depth there.
Forward bench is strong. Aumua and Sititi are real weapons.
Back bench is strong Ratima- Ioane - Jordan are gamebreakers.When the SA game comes along I see Ratima starting, Proctor or Alb at 13.
I like Reiko but more suited to winger in my mind.
I'd pick fast wingers so that means Reiko, Clarke or Jordan.
When Sititi comes on I hope he goes to 8 and Savea to 6.
Big moment for Blackadder even career defining has to stay fit.You don't see much criticism of DMac on here now. Has cut out the high risk plays and is a fantastic player.
Looking good across the ditch. Schmidt working his magic. Sold out game v SA.
Interest piquing for the Bledisloe. Has to be a good thing@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
Jeysus some of the doom and gloom on here is doing my head in.
100 upvotes for this.
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@Tordah said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
Still have a soft spot for Beauden, ever since he burst onto the scene in 2012, no matter how shitty his exit kicks are and how I sometimes scream at the highly illegal stream on my laptop when he does a silly chip - when they come off, I'd suck his balls again.
How was it the first tme?
@Frank said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Tordah said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
Still have a soft spot for Beauden, ever since he burst onto the scene in 2012, no matter how shitty his exit kicks are and how I sometimes scream at the highly illegal stream on my laptop when he does a silly chip - when they come off, I'd suck his balls again.
How was it the first tme?
I dunno, you'd have to ask him.
I reckon if the ABs win their own lineout ball it'll be an easy win.
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Argentina:
15 Juan Cruz Mallia, 14 Matias Moroni, 13 Luio Cinti, 12 Santiago Chocobares, 11 Mateo Carreras, 10 Santiago Carreras, 9 Gonzalo Bertranou, 8 Juan Martin Gonzalez, 7 Marcos Kremer, 6 Pablo Matera (captain), 5 Pedro Rubiolo, 4 Franco Molina, 3 Eduardo Bello, 2 Ignacio Ruiz, 1 Thomas Gallo.
Replacements: 16 Agustin Creevy, 17 Mayco Vivas, 18 Joel Sclavi, 19 Efrain Elias, 20 Tomas Lavanini, 21 Joaquin Oviedo, 22 Lautaro Bazan Velez, 23 Tomas Albornoz. -
Argentina:
15 Juan Cruz Mallia, 14 Matias Moroni, 13 Luio Cinti, 12 Santiago Chocobares, 11 Mateo Carreras, 10 Santiago Carreras, 9 Gonzalo Bertranou, 8 Juan Martin Gonzalez, 7 Marcos Kremer, 6 Pablo Matera (captain), 5 Pedro Rubiolo, 4 Franco Molina, 3 Eduardo Bello, 2 Ignacio Ruiz, 1 Thomas Gallo.
Replacements: 16 Agustin Creevy, 17 Mayco Vivas, 18 Joel Sclavi, 19 Efrain Elias, 20 Tomas Lavanini, 21 Joaquin Oviedo, 22 Lautaro Bazan Velez, 23 Tomas Albornoz.@Daffy-Jaffy said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
Argentina:
15 Juan Cruz Mallia, 14 Matias Moroni, 13 Luio Cinti, 12 Santiago Chocobares, 11 Mateo Carreras, 10 Santiago Carreras, 9 Gonzalo Bertranou, 8 Juan Martin Gonzalez, 7 Marcos Kremer, 6 Pablo Matera (captain), 5 Pedro Rubiolo, 4 Franco Molina, 3 Eduardo Bello, 2 Ignacio Ruiz, 1 Thomas Gallo.
Replacements: 16 Agustin Creevy, 17 Mayco Vivas, 18 Joel Sclavi, 19 Efrain Elias, 20 Tomas Lavanini, 21 Joaquin Oviedo, 22 Lautaro Bazan Velez, 23 Tomas Albornoz.Three outstanding players in the Argentine backrow.
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@Daffy-Jaffy said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
Argentina:
15 Juan Cruz Mallia, 14 Matias Moroni, 13 Luio Cinti, 12 Santiago Chocobares, 11 Mateo Carreras, 10 Santiago Carreras, 9 Gonzalo Bertranou, 8 Juan Martin Gonzalez, 7 Marcos Kremer, 6 Pablo Matera (captain), 5 Pedro Rubiolo, 4 Franco Molina, 3 Eduardo Bello, 2 Ignacio Ruiz, 1 Thomas Gallo.
Replacements: 16 Agustin Creevy, 17 Mayco Vivas, 18 Joel Sclavi, 19 Efrain Elias, 20 Tomas Lavanini, 21 Joaquin Oviedo, 22 Lautaro Bazan Velez, 23 Tomas Albornoz.Three outstanding players in the Argentine backrow.
@sparky but EB's got a big engine!
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@sparky but EB's got a big engine!
@Daffy-Jaffy said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@sparky but EB has got a big engine!
And sometimes it even runs on all eight cylinders.
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Are any of you guys Ken who texts into SeNz. I’m picking Kirwan or Winger. He certainly has blues bias and no idea.
@chchfanatic said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
Are any of you guys Ken who texts into SeNz. I’m picking Kirwan or Winger. He certainly has blues bias and no idea.
I think I heard that yesterday, I listen to a bit of senz on my Bluetooth headphones at work sometimes
Said something like ,
all you Blackadder fans are seriously deluded , he might be busy but he isn’t very effective .I laughed to myself and thought of the fern .
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I just can’t wait for the first loss of the new coaching regime. My god are we going to hear you whinging c**ts then.
@chchfanatic said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
I just can’t wait for the first loss of the new coaching regime. My god are we going to hear you whinging c**ts then.
And going by the threads so far.... It will purely be down to not enough Blues and Canes players
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
Razor continues to have a massive horn for Blackadder. That's all very well but it's time for him to show everyone why now
it's not just Razor. The last group did everything they could to get him involved as well. I wish someone would tell us what we are missing.
Since you asked... and to post some documented stuff.
Ethan has a massive motor.
Best Bronco times:
McCaw: 4.30
Blackadder 4.32 (4.34 in the article below but there's a podcast where he says 4.32)
Papalií 4.45That's pretty good for a guy who's probably slightly bigger than Richie - and will be playing 6.
His best position is 7 (especially at this level). If they picked him and Paps and said go to it, it would’ve been very understandable.
But, he’s picked at 6?
Richie motor doesn’t really equal great AB six.
Btw, I’ll be pleased to be shown I’m wrong if goes great fun’s, but honestly if we want a Crusader 6, it should be either of the other two options.
@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
Razor continues to have a massive horn for Blackadder. That's all very well but it's time for him to show everyone why now
it's not just Razor. The last group did everything they could to get him involved as well. I wish someone would tell us what we are missing.
Since you asked... and to post some documented stuff.
Ethan has a massive motor.
Best Bronco times:
McCaw: 4.30
Blackadder 4.32 (4.34 in the article below but there's a podcast where he says 4.32)
Papalií 4.45That's pretty good for a guy who's probably slightly bigger than Richie - and will be playing 6.
His best position is 7 (especially at this level). If they picked him and Paps and said go to it, it would’ve been very understandable.
But, he’s picked at 6?
Richie motor doesn’t really equal great AB six.
Btw, I’ll be pleased to be shown I’m wrong if goes great fun’s, but honestly if we want a Crusader 6, it should be either of the other two options.
I'm concerned players are not being given clear roles in this squad. Razor has talked about favouring players that can play more than one position. Against Fiji we had Blackadder starting at 7, and now against Argentina he is starting at 6, a very different position at test level. Why? Against Fiji we had ALB at 12, and he had a very strong game there. Against Argentina we have him starting at 13, again a very different position at test level. Why?
We've seen this strategy fail spectacularly time and again at the top level, and it has ruined players form and confidence. In fact I can't really think of a player that has truly succeeded in regularly playing different positions for the ABs.
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Thinking on that more, maybe they see Blackadder and ALB as primarily bench players, and want to give them time in multiple positions against lesser opposition so they can cover more from the bench at an adequate level?
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My fear with the AB's and it has been for a long time is our lack of ball carriers in the forward pack.
With time and space well can rip anyone apart, but everyone's defensive gameplan is to give us no time and space so we need heavy ball runners to dent to line so we can create space.
I just dont think that the "choose a mobile pack and run everyone off their feet" is a realistic gameplan, especially with a 23 man squad and everyone simply lifting their game as professionalism does. I think that gameplan is outdated.
Now it maybe a case in that we simply don't have the cattle, and were doing the best with the players we have but if that's the case and we havn't got heavy ball runners were going to need some innovation and smart thinking to create space, somehow across the field.
For me that's going to be the main challenge of this coaching group.
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My fear with the AB's and it has been for a long time is our lack of ball carriers in the forward pack.
With time and space well can rip anyone apart, but everyone's defensive gameplan is to give us no time and space so we need heavy ball runners to dent to line so we can create space.
I just dont think that the "choose a mobile pack and run everyone off their feet" is a realistic gameplan, especially with a 23 man squad and everyone simply lifting their game as professionalism does. I think that gameplan is outdated.
Now it maybe a case in that we simply don't have the cattle, and were doing the best with the players we have but if that's the case and we havn't got heavy ball runners were going to need some innovation and smart thinking to create space, somehow across the field.
For me that's going to be the main challenge of this coaching group.
@Windows97 We now have running halfbacks and they are looking at passing centres. So the TWM are working on varying the attack. Sititi, Aumua and Savea are all good carriers. A work in progress.
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@Windows97 We now have running halfbacks and they are looking at passing centres. So the TWM are working on varying the attack. Sititi, Aumua and Savea are all good carriers. A work in progress.
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Windows97 We now have running halfbacks and they are looking at passing centres. So the TWM are working on varying the attack. Sititi, Aumua and Savea are all good carriers. A work in progress.
Yeah good points, we need a running halfback to put doubt in the rush defence and having guys who can distribute the ball to the wings will help create more space instead of the ball dying in the midfield. The guys you mentioned can all carry well to, Sititi is an exciting prospect and I hope Amua finnaly finds his feet and confidence.
Dmac is also a 1st5 that can create space for people around him but I think is finding the gulf between SR where he does this very well and international rugby quite a difficult one to cross. Again with more gametime in the seat I think he'll only get better and better.
Will be interesitng to track this development.
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Over the last few years repeatedly carting the ball up against Allende, Kriel et al. has been unfruitful.
It looks like they are working on it -
Roigard - DMac will take a bit of stopping
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@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
Razor continues to have a massive horn for Blackadder. That's all very well but it's time for him to show everyone why now
it's not just Razor. The last group did everything they could to get him involved as well. I wish someone would tell us what we are missing.
Since you asked... and to post some documented stuff.
Ethan has a massive motor.
Best Bronco times:
McCaw: 4.30
Blackadder 4.32 (4.34 in the article below but there's a podcast where he says 4.32)
Papalií 4.45That's pretty good for a guy who's probably slightly bigger than Richie - and will be playing 6.
His best position is 7 (especially at this level). If they picked him and Paps and said go to it, it would’ve been very understandable.
But, he’s picked at 6?
Richie motor doesn’t really equal great AB six.
Btw, I’ll be pleased to be shown I’m wrong if goes great fun’s, but honestly if we want a Crusader 6, it should be either of the other two options.
I'm concerned players are not being given clear roles in this squad. Razor has talked about favouring players that can play more than one position. Against Fiji we had Blackadder starting at 7, and now against Argentina he is starting at 6, a very different position at test level. Why? Against Fiji we had ALB at 12, and he had a very strong game there. Against Argentina we have him starting at 13, again a very different position at test level. Why?
We've seen this strategy fail spectacularly time and again at the top level, and it has ruined players form and confidence. In fact I can't really think of a player that has truly succeeded in regularly playing different positions for the ABs.
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
Razor continues to have a massive horn for Blackadder. That's all very well but it's time for him to show everyone why now
it's not just Razor. The last group did everything they could to get him involved as well. I wish someone would tell us what we are missing.
Since you asked... and to post some documented stuff.
Ethan has a massive motor.
Best Bronco times:
McCaw: 4.30
Blackadder 4.32 (4.34 in the article below but there's a podcast where he says 4.32)
Papalií 4.45That's pretty good for a guy who's probably slightly bigger than Richie - and will be playing 6.
His best position is 7 (especially at this level). If they picked him and Paps and said go to it, it would’ve been very understandable.
But, he’s picked at 6?
Richie motor doesn’t really equal great AB six.
Btw, I’ll be pleased to be shown I’m wrong if goes great fun’s, but honestly if we want a Crusader 6, it should be either of the other two options.
I'm concerned players are not being given clear roles in this squad. Razor has talked about favouring players that can play more than one position. Against Fiji we had Blackadder starting at 7, and now against Argentina he is starting at 6, a very different position at test level. Why? Against Fiji we had ALB at 12, and he had a very strong game there. Against Argentina we have him starting at 13, again a very different position at test level. Why?
We've seen this strategy fail spectacularly time and again at the top level, and it has ruined players form and confidence. In fact I can't really think of a player that has truly succeeded in regularly playing different positions for the ABs.
The simple answer is that Razor wanted to give everyone a run (and, if they were ready, ideally a starting opportunity) across the three Tests.
If ALB had been restricted to playing 13 or Blackadder to 6, then they (or their competitors in those positions, such as Proctor and Jacobson) would've seen less game time.
