All Blacks vs Argentina I

[pakman]

@canefan said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:

@Chris said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:

@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:

I'm getting real sick of hearing players say they've gotta take the learnings. And it irritates beyond the grammar; just why do you need to learn the same dumb shit time after time as professional rugby players?

Does losing actually hurt anymore? I can't imagine a bunch of these players would survive with All Blacks from previous the millenia.

Yep I feel exactly the same way, sick of hearing that shit,I reckon you are right it doesn't hurt these players enough when they lose its just another lose now.
It is starting as a Fan to make me feel the same as no end seems to be in sight.

No wonder the games don't sell out right now. Not saying the players don't have pride (I'm sure they do), but there just doesn't seem to be the intensity to not lose as there used to. It's probably just me getting older... Apparently you can still buy tickets to EP for this weekend

It is clear the ABs were up for England, but I can't help but reflect that the San Diego junket was a serious setback.
Playing a thrown together Fijian team allowed some players to be run 'to give them a taste of test footy', but more so because the 'AB All Star' media circus is toxic to the AB mindset.
And so to Wellington, and ABs very much channeling 'it's only the Pumas' until the last 20 when it became 'shit, we're in DANGER of losing to the Pumas' and all composure went out the window.

[canefan]

We definitely lost our composure in that final 30, after an uneven and untidy first 50

[pakman]

@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:

@Winger said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:

@Mattasaurus said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:

@Chris said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:

@Chris said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:

@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:

@Chris said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:

@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:

@Chris said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:

@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:

Aumua took a great time to throw so badly

No one jumped though. Just piss poor all around. Horrible game overall by the ABs.

Why are people blaming Aumua for a lineout where he had no targets? The whole thing was a debacle and speaks volumes about the coaching and selecting.

Fucking abysmal. At least Fozzie got us to a RWC final.

Because he didn’t throw one straight since he came on.

No. One. Jumped.

What every line out

Too difficult to grasp we're talking about the last lineout?

All 4 Amua fucked up by not throwing straight not just the last one.

Bahaha it wasn’t all Aumua’s fault. How does no one even jumping land on his shoulders. You’re just trying to deflect blame from poor coaching. Taylor was the shit throwing hooker in the two tests in England and we were lucky to get out of those tests without atleast one loss. Razor has a lot of work to do. The honeymoon is over.

He couldn’t hit fuck all tonight had a shocker
Terrible performance like a lot of them
TJ, Jordie just really poor.
Drop them all useless.

Drop Taylor and Blackadder aswell. No effect at all. Blackadder flying back like that as our enforcer and then missing a one on one tackle under our posts was just embarrassing. Taylor shouldn’t have been starting tonight, he was garbage in the first two tests. Maybe starting Aumua would have given him more confidence instead of throwing him in last minute when we were already under the pump.

Again, it falls on Razor with shit selections and shit tactics.

He chose not to select the form Super players like Sotutu, Love, Lakai, Ioane etc so he can fall on the sword when it all turns to shit for all I care.

Drop the best lineouts thrower and the leading tackler... ...real smart

Lol the reason he tackled so much was because he kept turning the ball over with shit carries. But let’s just keep ignoring the poor performances of Razor’s mates in the team aye.

Aumua did one crooked lineout throw though. So we must keep a hooker strating who si well and truly past his best

100%

Minority view, but personally I prefer to start with a hooker who can throw straight.

[canefan]

@pakman said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:

@Winger said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:

@Mattasaurus said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:

@Chris said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:

@Chris said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:

@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:

@Chris said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:

@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:

@Chris said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:

@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:

Aumua took a great time to throw so badly

No one jumped though. Just piss poor all around. Horrible game overall by the ABs.

Why are people blaming Aumua for a lineout where he had no targets? The whole thing was a debacle and speaks volumes about the coaching and selecting.

Fucking abysmal. At least Fozzie got us to a RWC final.

Because he didn’t throw one straight since he came on.

No. One. Jumped.

What every line out

Too difficult to grasp we're talking about the last lineout?

All 4 Amua fucked up by not throwing straight not just the last one.

Bahaha it wasn’t all Aumua’s fault. How does no one even jumping land on his shoulders. You’re just trying to deflect blame from poor coaching. Taylor was the shit throwing hooker in the two tests in England and we were lucky to get out of those tests without atleast one loss. Razor has a lot of work to do. The honeymoon is over.

He couldn’t hit fuck all tonight had a shocker
Terrible performance like a lot of them
TJ, Jordie just really poor.
Drop them all useless.

Drop Taylor and Blackadder aswell. No effect at all. Blackadder flying back like that as our enforcer and then missing a one on one tackle under our posts was just embarrassing. Taylor shouldn’t have been starting tonight, he was garbage in the first two tests. Maybe starting Aumua would have given him more confidence instead of throwing him in last minute when we were already under the pump.

Again, it falls on Razor with shit selections and shit tactics.

He chose not to select the form Super players like Sotutu, Love, Lakai, Ioane etc so he can fall on the sword when it all turns to shit for all I care.

Drop the best lineouts thrower and the leading tackler... ...real smart

Lol the reason he tackled so much was because he kept turning the ball over with shit carries. But let’s just keep ignoring the poor performances of Razor’s mates in the team aye.

Aumua did one crooked lineout throw though. So we must keep a hooker strating who si well and truly past his best

100%

Minority view, but personally I prefer to start with a hooker who can throw straight.

Aumua didn't show up last night. Our depth right now is paper thin, we can't afford the injuries to our first choice forwards right now

[Winger]

@pakman said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:

@Winger said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:

@Mattasaurus said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:

@Chris said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:

@Chris said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:

@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:

@Chris said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:

@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:

@Chris said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:

@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:

Aumua took a great time to throw so badly

No one jumped though. Just piss poor all around. Horrible game overall by the ABs.

Why are people blaming Aumua for a lineout where he had no targets? The whole thing was a debacle and speaks volumes about the coaching and selecting.

Fucking abysmal. At least Fozzie got us to a RWC final.

Because he didn’t throw one straight since he came on.

No. One. Jumped.

What every line out

Too difficult to grasp we're talking about the last lineout?

All 4 Amua fucked up by not throwing straight not just the last one.

Bahaha it wasn’t all Aumua’s fault. How does no one even jumping land on his shoulders. You’re just trying to deflect blame from poor coaching. Taylor was the shit throwing hooker in the two tests in England and we were lucky to get out of those tests without atleast one loss. Razor has a lot of work to do. The honeymoon is over.

He couldn’t hit fuck all tonight had a shocker
Terrible performance like a lot of them
TJ, Jordie just really poor.
Drop them all useless.

Drop Taylor and Blackadder aswell. No effect at all. Blackadder flying back like that as our enforcer and then missing a one on one tackle under our posts was just embarrassing. Taylor shouldn’t have been starting tonight, he was garbage in the first two tests. Maybe starting Aumua would have given him more confidence instead of throwing him in last minute when we were already under the pump.

Again, it falls on Razor with shit selections and shit tactics.

He chose not to select the form Super players like Sotutu, Love, Lakai, Ioane etc so he can fall on the sword when it all turns to shit for all I care.

Drop the best lineouts thrower and the leading tackler... ...real smart

Lol the reason he tackled so much was because he kept turning the ball over with shit carries. But let’s just keep ignoring the poor performances of Razor’s mates in the team aye.

Aumua did one crooked lineout throw though. So we must keep a hooker strating who si well and truly past his best

100%

Minority view, but personally I prefer to start with a hooker who can throw straight.

Aumua threw 1 crocked throw. Against Fiji he was fine

I prefer a hooker who can do something apart from throw. As Taylor once could. And how was his throwing against England?

RR can throw very well. What about Bell

[Jet]

https://streamable.com/gt4e2?src=player-page-share

WE NEED MORE OF THIS

This is the attitude the team is missing. It's not just about the scoreboard. The scoreboard will follow.
It's a battle of will and desire and hurt.
They shouldn't be keen on coming down your channel.

And this.

A big hit or a big carry goes a long way to getting both your own, and the opposite teams attention.

IMPOSE YOURSELF ON THE FUCKING GAME. DONT WAIT FOR IT TO COME TO YOU.

Im often reminded of Roy Keane quote about when things weren't going to plan or they were up against it.

"I might smash into someone , just to make me feel better"

Sam Cane was much maligned in the tail end of his tenure but in the quarter final he said "not today".

He took Caelan Doris out of the game.

[Jet]

This post is deleted!

[DaGrubster]

@Victor-Meldrew

Agreed, it’s his 3rd season of owning the forwards and while he has lost 2 world class locks, the forward pack has gone backwards this year.

[DaGrubster]

@Jet

Absolutely mate, rugby is a simple game. Smash pricks all day until you start to dominate them and then let the blouses have a run with the ball to make the scoreboard look good.

Intent, aggression and hurt people.

[Billy Tell]

Finally managed to watch this.

The bullshit tmo intervention at 48 minutes reminded me why I sort of hated the RWC.

Pack has too many passengers. Vaai utterly absent, blackadder just too mediocre. TJP too slow, not enough pace in the backs. And Aumua having a throwing mare as he’s prone to.

Argentina were great, especially their pack and especially their back row.

We have terrible record in wgtn.

Up to you mr Robertson.

[Jet]

@Billy-Tell said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:

Finally managed to watch this.

The bullshit tmo intervention at 48 minutes reminded me why I sort of hated the RWC.

Pack has too many passengers. Vaai utterly absent, blackadder just too mediocre. TJP too slow, not enough pace in the backs. And Aumua having a throwing mare as he’s prone to.

Argentina were great, especially their pack and especially their back row.

We have terrible record in wgtn.

Up to you mr Robertson.

In order to beat the Boks this year we need to try and run them ragged. We arent winning an arm wrestle with our current bunch.

Firstly Razor needs to bleat like fuck in the media and behind the scenes with officialdom about tactical injuries, boots slipping off at opportune moments, tactical HIA's, waterboys on the pitch etc.

He then needs to pick the likes of Jordan, Ratima, Love, Hotham, Sititi, Ioane, Proctor and Clarke and we need to run those fat cheating fucks off their feet.

Any penalty within 60m of their poles and Jordie should be having a shot.

Ratima or Hotham need to be sniping plenty to focus the attention of their backrow.

Id be bringing Clarke in off DMAC's shoulder on first phase to skittle a few bowling pins. Or least as a decoy. He KO'd two springboks last year, one of whom was Faf De Klerk.

[pakman]

First quarter rewatch. For all the bleating here tight five imposed themselves on Puma fatties. No complaints. Loosies OK but it became obvious pretty quickly that RD was being asked to do all the hit ups.

Chief grip TJS. Slow, crap kicking, dubious decision making.

ABs 10-0 after 20.

[LatsToTheMax]

@Jet said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:

@Billy-Tell said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:

Finally managed to watch this.

The bullshit tmo intervention at 48 minutes reminded me why I sort of hated the RWC.

Pack has too many passengers. Vaai utterly absent, blackadder just too mediocre. TJP too slow, not enough pace in the backs. And Aumua having a throwing mare as he’s prone to.

Argentina were great, especially their pack and especially their back row.

We have terrible record in wgtn.

Up to you mr Robertson.

In order to beat the Boks this year we need to try and run them off their feet. We arent winning an arm wrestle with our current bunch.

Firstly Razor needs to bleat like fuck in the media and behind the scenes with officialdom about tactical injuries, boots slipping off at opportune moments, tactical HIA's, waterboys on the pitch etc.

He then needs to pick the likes of Jordan, Ratima, Love, Hotham, Sititi, Ioane, Proctor and Clarke and we need to run those fat cheating fucks off their feet.

Any penalty within 60m of their poles and Jordie should be having a shot.

Ratima or Hotham need to be sniping plenty to focus the attention of their backrow.

Id be bringing Clarke in off DMAC's shoulder on first phase to skittle a few bowling pins. Or least as a decoy. He KO'd two springboks last year, one of whom was Faf De Klerk.

90% agree. We won’t be able to run them off their feet. Not unless we get go forward like the 2nd test 2022.

Now that the dust has settled, the line has been drawn and I’m hoping the coaches have decided they’ll make like House MD and be total c@nts for the rest of this year at the minimum. This was one of my many complaints about Fozzy. All good being nice but you had Rassie, Steady Eddy, the whole of Ireland acting like absolute twats and the marching one over us. Some of the penalties and TMO interjections we are coping are beyond absurd.

Also, the ABs lost that more than the Pumas won. A loss none the less but two howlers by our own blokes and a half yard forward pass and that was a 21 point win.

[pakman]

Second quarter rewatch.
Tighties still good, and loosies solid pass. By now TJS passing to RD is the play Pumas expect -- so little change from it. ABs doing pretty well, with two glaring exceptions, both of which seem to expose a serious organisational flaw.
First, we are rumbling up the sideline, but on third or fourth phase Lomax stripped in two on one tackle. One wouldn't have expected much drama as in Puma's half, BUT ABs very bunched up with 11 on one third of field, whereas Pumas backline in full configuration. A six on three overlap, with BB in behind, which is why ALB comes right up. Paps is on inside and Telea on outside. Jordie was caught up near ruck and D Mac in behind on ruck side, running across. Regulation run in. Reminded me of way we played when 13 at school.
Second, Reece slap back. Again, backs very compressed round ball, so when Puma regathered only DMac in front of him, defending entire width of field. Another run in.
Also noticed several instances of Jordie and Beaudy having to make (surprisingly effective cleans), presumably because play moved away from cleaners. Ad libbing?
I'd say ABs plainly better team for the period, but scoreboard ABs 10 Pumas 15.

[game_film]

I do love an unemotional, sound turned off, cup of coffee and notepad rewatch.

[kiwiinmelb]

@DaGrubster said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:

@Jet

Absolutely mate, rugby is a simple game. Smash pricks all day until you start to dominate them and then let the blouses have a run with the ball to make the scoreboard look good.

Intent, aggression and hurt people.

It’s working for the boks

[Canes4life]

@pakman said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:

@Winger said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:

@Mattasaurus said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:

@Chris said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:

@Chris said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:

@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:

@Chris said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:

@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:

@Chris said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:

@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:

Aumua took a great time to throw so badly

No one jumped though. Just piss poor all around. Horrible game overall by the ABs.

Why are people blaming Aumua for a lineout where he had no targets? The whole thing was a debacle and speaks volumes about the coaching and selecting.

Fucking abysmal. At least Fozzie got us to a RWC final.

Because he didn’t throw one straight since he came on.

No. One. Jumped.

What every line out

Too difficult to grasp we're talking about the last lineout?

All 4 Amua fucked up by not throwing straight not just the last one.

Bahaha it wasn’t all Aumua’s fault. How does no one even jumping land on his shoulders. You’re just trying to deflect blame from poor coaching. Taylor was the shit throwing hooker in the two tests in England and we were lucky to get out of those tests without atleast one loss. Razor has a lot of work to do. The honeymoon is over.

He couldn’t hit fuck all tonight had a shocker
Terrible performance like a lot of them
TJ, Jordie just really poor.
Drop them all useless.

Drop Taylor and Blackadder aswell. No effect at all. Blackadder flying back like that as our enforcer and then missing a one on one tackle under our posts was just embarrassing. Taylor shouldn’t have been starting tonight, he was garbage in the first two tests. Maybe starting Aumua would have given him more confidence instead of throwing him in last minute when we were already under the pump.

Again, it falls on Razor with shit selections and shit tactics.

He chose not to select the form Super players like Sotutu, Love, Lakai, Ioane etc so he can fall on the sword when it all turns to shit for all I care.

Drop the best lineouts thrower and the leading tackler... ...real smart

Lol the reason he tackled so much was because he kept turning the ball over with shit carries. But let’s just keep ignoring the poor performances of Razor’s mates in the team aye.

Aumua did one crooked lineout throw though. So we must keep a hooker strating who si well and truly past his best

100%

Minority view, but personally I prefer to start with a hooker who can throw straight.

He was perfectly fine against England, Taylor was the one who couldn't throw straight in that series. Hookers missing their mark is a serious problem in NZ rugby atm though.

[Jet]

@LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:

@Jet said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:

@Billy-Tell said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:

Finally managed to watch this.

The bullshit tmo intervention at 48 minutes reminded me why I sort of hated the RWC.

Pack has too many passengers. Vaai utterly absent, blackadder just too mediocre. TJP too slow, not enough pace in the backs. And Aumua having a throwing mare as he’s prone to.

Argentina were great, especially their pack and especially their back row.

We have terrible record in wgtn.

Up to you mr Robertson.

In order to beat the Boks this year we need to try and run them off their feet. We arent winning an arm wrestle with our current bunch.

Firstly Razor needs to bleat like fuck in the media and behind the scenes with officialdom about tactical injuries, boots slipping off at opportune moments, tactical HIA's, waterboys on the pitch etc.

He then needs to pick the likes of Jordan, Ratima, Love, Hotham, Sititi, Ioane, Proctor and Clarke and we need to run those fat cheating fucks off their feet.

Any penalty within 60m of their poles and Jordie should be having a shot.

Ratima or Hotham need to be sniping plenty to focus the attention of their backrow.

Id be bringing Clarke in off DMAC's shoulder on first phase to skittle a few bowling pins. Or least as a decoy. He KO'd two springboks last year, one of whom was Faf De Klerk.

90% agree. We won’t be able to run them off their feet. Not unless we get go forward like the 2nd test 2022.

Now that the dust has settled, the line has been drawn and I’m hoping the coaches have decided they’ll make like House MD and be total c@nts for the rest of this year at the minimum. This was one of my many complaints about Fozzy. All good being nice but you had Rassie, Steady Eddy, the whole of Ireland acting like absolute twats and the marching one over us. Some of the penalties and TMO interjections we are coping are beyond absurd.

Also, the ABs lost that more than the Pumas won. A loss none the less but two howlers by our own blokes and a half yard forward pass and that was a 21 point win.

Im still seething over the World Cup final. Barnes and co were a disgrace.

[Dan54]

I not sure why Vai'i is getting stick, I genuinely thought he went ok.
I still suspect we got too many coaches , the team looks a little confused at times.
I still not panicing over next week, and still think (as last time Pumas bet us) we blew it. The foot was taken off pedal. Shouldn't happen but does sometimes.

I will say I not keen on a coach (Ryan, who I a real fan of) coming out after oranges and saying that Reece was dumb on tv. That stuff is rammed down player's throat at team meetings I think.

But I agree with the post that we need a Cane type player, not doing flashy stuff, but making players feel it when they sneak down his channel!

Also for all the anfst over the loss, the Pumas played bloody well and deserve credit for the win. We are not so good that wins against good opposition playing well, shouldn't be taken as given!

[Landers92]

There’s a good 500-600 messages I need catch up on here in so I’m thinking I’ll flag that and drop my 2cents even though i have no doubt it’s already been said.

All blacks lacked an enforcer/big ball carrier BIG TIME. The closest thing we have to that is Finau, are we just going to give up on Finau after 2 tests against England? If so, what a joke. He’s finding his feet with the new coaching system just as much as anyone else and he deserves to be shown some more loyalty and belief there. A lot of people may not like it, but he’s the best 6 we have in the squad. The only true 6 too.

A small gripe with how returning players have been handled. We included Josh Lord and Will Jordan in the matchday 23, I can understand Lord because of the locking injuries but he has only played 1, maybe half of a NPC pre season game for Taranaki and it showed. The guy looked lost.

Will Jordan, he has only played half a NPC pre season game for Ta$man. The coaches said he is one of the only players who could return to rugby and be thrust straight back into the test arena, I beg to differ. There is a major play from the coaches there, one of confidence because they have coached the guy before but what sort of message is that sending to the rest of that team?

Taking off Dalton when we did was a huge mistake. All of a sudden we had no genuine 7 on the field in a close game and in test rugby, in my opinion if you don’t have a specialist 7 on the field you’re going to be in trouble. Terrible substitution management there. It was either Blackadder or Ardie who should have come off for Sititi.

Next week I won’t be surprised if we see the addition of Sam Cane to bring some leadership into the mix with Barrett still being out, it was clearly missed.

One of the worst AB’s performances I’ve seen in a long long time. Confident we will bounce back next week in Auckland. Let’s get behind the boys and hope the right squad balance is found.

Ratima needs to start.