All Blacks v Argentina II
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more than ever i think saveas best positions is impact off the bench
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
more than ever i think saveas best positions is impact off the bench
At the very best.
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
more than ever i think saveas best positions is impact off the bench
At the very best.
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@Chris i would at least like to see what he could do if he knew he only needed to play 30 mins against tired opposition
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris i would at least like to see what he could do if he knew he only needed to play 30 mins against tired opposition
Yeah that’s fair.
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the problem is chaps, who do you replace him with? The other 8 in the squad is a kid with about 14 minutes of pro rugby under his belt, and made some key errors when he came on.
Or you could go with Jacobson, but he's another toiler at this level.When you deliberately leave the best #8 of Super Rugby out of the squad, and only bring in the guy who spent the first half of the year fucking around in Japan, at best you have limited your options, at worst you knew this was coming and you wanted to avoid the hard decision that comes with it.
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the problem is chaps, who do you replace him with? The other 8 in the squad is a kid with about 14 minutes of pro rugby under his belt, and made some key errors when he came on.
Or you could go with Jacobson, but he's another toiler at this level.When you deliberately leave the best #8 of Super Rugby out of the squad, and only bring in the guy who spent the first half of the year fucking around in Japan, at best you have limited your options, at worst you knew this was coming and you wanted to avoid the hard decision that comes with it.
@mariner4life definitely i was more meaning big picture, if we decided he wasn't a starter then the squad selections would be different
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@Frank said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Frank said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Watched the Soctt Hansen interview.
I am not going to say - “Something is rotten in the state of Denmark” -yet, but he doesn't give me that good down to earth feeling like say, Vern Cotter did. Too slick, too corporate, and too cocky. Apparently, it's all abpit "opportunities".What happened to just saying we screwed up and we feel ashamed?
There's too many coaches in this team, two of which (MacDonald and Holland) have no record to stand on to lay claim to be in the set up in the first place. This is reflected in the disjointed game plan.
And since Razor loves his assistants - perhaps we hire a how to exit out of our own half coach.
Hansen is a top bloke and a very smart coach he master minded a lot of the plans to combat teams in the Crusaders title play off games.
I had a lot to with Scott at club level down to earth dude.Perceptions vary I guess.
I don't like the language he uses.
It's not straight-forward enough.
Ultimately, we'll judge him by his results.He is very analytical type deep thinker understands the game very well.
If you sat down and talked rugby with him you would see.@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Frank said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Frank said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Watched the Soctt Hansen interview.
I am not going to say - “Something is rotten in the state of Denmark” -yet, but he doesn't give me that good down to earth feeling like say, Vern Cotter did. Too slick, too corporate, and too cocky. Apparently, it's all abpit "opportunities".What happened to just saying we screwed up and we feel ashamed?
There's too many coaches in this team, two of which (MacDonald and Holland) have no record to stand on to lay claim to be in the set up in the first place. This is reflected in the disjointed game plan.
And since Razor loves his assistants - perhaps we hire a how to exit out of our own half coach.
Hansen is a top bloke and a very smart coach he master minded a lot of the plans to combat teams in the Crusaders title play off games.
I had a lot to with Scott at club level down to earth dude.Perceptions vary I guess.
I don't like the language he uses.
It's not straight-forward enough.
Ultimately, we'll judge him by his results.He is very analytical type deep thinker understands the game very well.
If you sat down and talked rugby with him you would see.Maybe so. But he seems to live in his head a bit too much. But thats how he is
One change Robertson should or could make is to let him select the entire backline to see if he can do any better. as it is its not working at present and really I doubt if it even well with MacDonald and Holland involved. Maybe even let MacDonald go and appoint Hansen head coach and Holland as a support coach. And thats it. Just far too many at present. Ellison could also be a support coach maybe (looking after defense) but no more
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the problem is chaps, who do you replace him with? The other 8 in the squad is a kid with about 14 minutes of pro rugby under his belt, and made some key errors when he came on.
Or you could go with Jacobson, but he's another toiler at this level.When you deliberately leave the best #8 of Super Rugby out of the squad, and only bring in the guy who spent the first half of the year fucking around in Japan, at best you have limited your options, at worst you knew this was coming and you wanted to avoid the hard decision that comes with it.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
the problem is chaps, who do you replace him with? The other 8 in the squad is a kid with about 14 minutes of pro rugby under his belt, and made some key errors when he came on.
Or you could go with Jacobson, but he's another toiler at this level.When you deliberately leave the best #8 of Super Rugby out of the squad, and only bring in the guy who spent the first half of the year fucking around in Japan, at best you have limited your options, at worst you knew this was coming and you wanted to avoid the hard decision that comes with it.
Sititi I suppose only option unless you bite the bullet and add the no.8 who was not selected.
We have to try something give Sititi a run they picked him give him a go it can’t be worse. -
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
more than ever i think saveas best positions is impact off the bench
At the very best.
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
more than ever i think saveas best positions is impact off the bench
At the very best.
he's tired because he carreid the team on his shoulders for the RWC. Seriously, he was immense there- didn't make him grow and become a lineout option, but he was close to one of our best players last year. Short memories around here.
You're both right. TJ is past it (and you knew what you were getting when you picked him Razor), Ardie unbalances the trio and is getting on; Newell is pants around the park but Jase loves him, Blackadder is limited at 6 in Tests, and Reece is amazing at somethings, but still too small for front line tests.
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@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Saveas time is done for me his work rate is poor now he floats in and out of the game too much.
His captaincy is just not there under pressure we have nothing from the Captain.
TJ is done as well. We need the young HBs in, both are running threats which we need.
I hope we see some hard selections being made this week.Did you even watch the game. Savea was fine but as captain its hard with such a poorly selected and poorly coached side. As was TJ. But people ahve made there mind up with TJ before the game starts (having posted this I would have started Ratima).
Regarding players. Look at your Crusader players and coaches to see where the blame lies
Taylor should be dropped to the reserves and replaced with Aumua. He threw well this game (as did Aumua in his one start) but not all. But he does nothing much else now. I would prefer both RR and Aumua. But hes a vice captian now. This is becoming an issue with Robertson. Hes like another Deans or Wylie (or Hart). Not a Wayne Smith. Or Henry.Newell is hopeless apart from scummaging but even here in this game he was poor.
Reece is too slow and small for test rugby.
In my view Blackadder is not the answer at 6There were other poor selection but the above is a start
@Winger said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Saveas time is done for me his work rate is poor now he floats in and out of the game too much.
His captaincy is just not there under pressure we have nothing from the Captain.
TJ is done as well. We need the young HBs in, both are running threats which we need.
I hope we see some hard selections being made this week.Did you even watch the game.
Taylor should be dropped to the reserves and replaced with Aumua.If you're gonna ask that of someone else, then advocate for Aumua who totally shat the bed, the post becomes a bit of a joke.
And I say that as a fan of Aumua, and a critic of Taylor. -
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
more than ever i think saveas best positions is impact off the bench
At the very best.
he's tired because he carreid the team on his shoulders for the RWC. Seriously, he was immense there- didn't make him grow and become a lineout option, but he was close to one of our best players last year. Short memories around here.
You're both right. TJ is past it (and you knew what you were getting when you picked him Razor), Ardie unbalances the trio and is getting on; Newell is pants around the park but Jase loves him, Blackadder is limited at 6 in Tests, and Reece is amazing at somethings, but still too small for front line tests.
@nzzp said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
more than ever i think saveas best positions is impact off the bench
At the very best.
he's tired because he carreid the team on his shoulders for the RWC. Seriously, he was immense there- didn't make him grow and become a lineout option, but he was close to one of our best players last year. Short memories around here.
You're both right. TJ is past it (and you knew what you were getting when you picked him Razor), Ardie unbalances the trio and is getting on; Newell is pants around the park but Jase loves him, Blackadder is limited at 6 in Tests, and Reece is amazing at somethings, but still too small for front line tests.
Push Savea to the bench then use him for impact, maybe he gets his mojo back.
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@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
more than ever i think saveas best positions is impact off the bench
At the very best.
he's tired because he carreid the team on his shoulders for the RWC. Seriously, he was immense there- didn't make him grow and become a lineout option, but he was close to one of our best players last year. Short memories around here.
You're both right. TJ is past it (and you knew what you were getting when you picked him Razor), Ardie unbalances the trio and is getting on; Newell is pants around the park but Jase loves him, Blackadder is limited at 6 in Tests, and Reece is amazing at somethings, but still too small for front line tests.
@nzzp said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
more than ever i think saveas best positions is impact off the bench
At the very best.
he's tired because he carreid the team on his shoulders for the RWC. Seriously, he was immense there- didn't make him grow and become a lineout option, but he was close to one of our best players last year. Short memories around here.
It's not a short memory re Savea, it's the 'only as good as your last game' cliche. And his last few have been shit.
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@Winger said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Saveas time is done for me his work rate is poor now he floats in and out of the game too much.
His captaincy is just not there under pressure we have nothing from the Captain.
TJ is done as well. We need the young HBs in, both are running threats which we need.
I hope we see some hard selections being made this week.Did you even watch the game.
Taylor should be dropped to the reserves and replaced with Aumua.If you're gonna ask that of someone else, then advocate for Aumua who totally shat the bed, the post becomes a bit of a joke.
And I say that as a fan of Aumua, and a critic of Taylor.@reprobate said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Winger said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Saveas time is done for me his work rate is poor now he floats in and out of the game too much.
His captaincy is just not there under pressure we have nothing from the Captain.
TJ is done as well. We need the young HBs in, both are running threats which we need.
I hope we see some hard selections being made this week.Did you even watch the game.
Taylor should be dropped to the reserves and replaced with Aumua.If you're gonna ask that of someone else, then advocate for Aumua who totally shat the bed, the post becomes a bit of a joke.
And I say that as a fan of Aumua, and a critic of Taylor.He did ONE and only crocked lineout throw. He was only on for 15 minutes
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@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
more than ever i think saveas best positions is impact off the bench
At the very best.
he's tired because he carreid the team on his shoulders for the RWC. Seriously, he was immense there- didn't make him grow and become a lineout option, but he was close to one of our best players last year. Short memories around here.
You're both right. TJ is past it (and you knew what you were getting when you picked him Razor), Ardie unbalances the trio and is getting on; Newell is pants around the park but Jase loves him, Blackadder is limited at 6 in Tests, and Reece is amazing at somethings, but still too small for front line tests.
@nzzp said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
more than ever i think saveas best positions is impact off the bench
At the very best.
he's tired because he carreid the team on his shoulders for the RWC. Seriously, he was immense there- didn't make him grow and become a lineout option, but he was close to one of our best players last year. Short memories around here.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Winger said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Saveas time is done for me his work rate is poor now he floats in and out of the game too much.
His captaincy is just not there under pressure we have nothing from the Captain.
TJ is done as well. We need the young HBs in, both are running threats which we need.
I hope we see some hard selections being made this week.Did you even watch the game.
Taylor should be dropped to the reserves and replaced with Aumua.If you're gonna ask that of someone else, then advocate for Aumua who totally shat the bed, the post becomes a bit of a joke.
And I say that as a fan of Aumua, and a critic of Taylor.He did ONE and only crocked lineout throw. He was only on for 15 minutes
@Winger said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@reprobate said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Winger said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Saveas time is done for me his work rate is poor now he floats in and out of the game too much.
His captaincy is just not there under pressure we have nothing from the Captain.
TJ is done as well. We need the young HBs in, both are running threats which we need.
I hope we see some hard selections being made this week.Did you even watch the game.
Taylor should be dropped to the reserves and replaced with Aumua.If you're gonna ask that of someone else, then advocate for Aumua who totally shat the bed, the post becomes a bit of a joke.
And I say that as a fan of Aumua, and a critic of Taylor.He did ONE and only crocked lineout throw. He was only on for 15 minutes
Bullshit excuses sorry mate. There was one ruled not-straight, another missed not-straight which was saved pretty miraculously by Sititi stretching over and grabbing it one-handed, and the one where nobody jumped.
The parochialism on here is getting ridiculous with people excusing multiple mistakes by one player they like and crucifying a player they don't like for a single error.
I like Aumua, and would have started him. If Samisoni was fit, Taylor would be 3rd hooker for me. None of which changes the fact that on this particular occasion he played shit. -
@nzzp said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
more than ever i think saveas best positions is impact off the bench
At the very best.
he's tired because he carreid the team on his shoulders for the RWC. Seriously, he was immense there- didn't make him grow and become a lineout option, but he was close to one of our best players last year. Short memories around here.
It's not a short memory re Savea, it's the 'only as good as your last game' cliche. And his last few have been shit.
@reprobate said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@nzzp said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
more than ever i think saveas best positions is impact off the bench
At the very best.
he's tired because he carreid the team on his shoulders for the RWC. Seriously, he was immense there- didn't make him grow and become a lineout option, but he was close to one of our best players last year. Short memories around here.
It's not a short memory re Savea, it's the 'only as good as your last game' cliche. And his last few have been shit.
Complete and utter rubbish. Suggest you watch the game closer. The MP player did well.
Heres 2 ratings
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/all-blacks-player-ratings-vs-argentina-the-rugby-championship-2/
- Ethan Blackadder – 5
A mixed bag for Blackadder at No 6. Pinged for not rolling in the first half. Had trouble clearing out Matera and co. Penalised for a high shot in the second half leading to three points for Argentina. High work rate with 19 tackles but three penalties conceded costly.
- Dalton Papali’i – 7
Strong showing from Papali’i. Won a big turnover in the first half.
- Ardie Savea – 7
A big night with ball in hand with 13 carries from Savea with 10 tackles. Came up with a big turnover late that gave the All Blacks a chance down by five but lineout troubles left it squandered.
- TJ Perenara – 6.5
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Heres another. Planet rugby
8 Ardie Savea: Led from the front as he carried like a warrior and made his tackles. Savea notched up joint most metres with ball in hand for his side and there was not much he could do to give his side the chance to win. 7
7 Dalton Papali’i: The openside was busy while on the park showing his breakdown prowess and being a committed defender but quite frankly was blown out of the water by the Argentine loose trio. 5
6 Ethan Blackadder: Good and bad from the blindside who showed his physicality as required in his role but gave away a lot of penalties in the process. Still, his brilliant work-rate topped the tackle count with a whopping 20. 6
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@reprobate said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@nzzp said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
more than ever i think saveas best positions is impact off the bench
At the very best.
he's tired because he carreid the team on his shoulders for the RWC. Seriously, he was immense there- didn't make him grow and become a lineout option, but he was close to one of our best players last year. Short memories around here.
It's not a short memory re Savea, it's the 'only as good as your last game' cliche. And his last few have been shit.
Complete and utter rubbish. Suggest you watch the game closer. The MP player did well.
Heres 2 ratings
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/all-blacks-player-ratings-vs-argentina-the-rugby-championship-2/
- Ethan Blackadder – 5
A mixed bag for Blackadder at No 6. Pinged for not rolling in the first half. Had trouble clearing out Matera and co. Penalised for a high shot in the second half leading to three points for Argentina. High work rate with 19 tackles but three penalties conceded costly.
- Dalton Papali’i – 7
Strong showing from Papali’i. Won a big turnover in the first half.
- Ardie Savea – 7
A big night with ball in hand with 13 carries from Savea with 10 tackles. Came up with a big turnover late that gave the All Blacks a chance down by five but lineout troubles left it squandered.
- TJ Perenara – 6.5
============================================
Heres another. Planet rugby
8 Ardie Savea: Led from the front as he carried like a warrior and made his tackles. Savea notched up joint most metres with ball in hand for his side and there was not much he could do to give his side the chance to win. 7
7 Dalton Papali’i: The openside was busy while on the park showing his breakdown prowess and being a committed defender but quite frankly was blown out of the water by the Argentine loose trio. 5
6 Ethan Blackadder: Good and bad from the blindside who showed his physicality as required in his role but gave away a lot of penalties in the process. Still, his brilliant work-rate topped the tackle count with a whopping 20. 6
@Winger yes....because rugby pass ratings are famously an accurate representation of real life...you know theyre a form of MSM dont you?
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@Winger said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@reprobate said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Winger said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Saveas time is done for me his work rate is poor now he floats in and out of the game too much.
His captaincy is just not there under pressure we have nothing from the Captain.
TJ is done as well. We need the young HBs in, both are running threats which we need.
I hope we see some hard selections being made this week.Did you even watch the game.
Taylor should be dropped to the reserves and replaced with Aumua.If you're gonna ask that of someone else, then advocate for Aumua who totally shat the bed, the post becomes a bit of a joke.
And I say that as a fan of Aumua, and a critic of Taylor.He did ONE and only crocked lineout throw. He was only on for 15 minutes
Bullshit excuses sorry mate. There was one ruled not-straight, another missed not-straight which was saved pretty miraculously by Sititi stretching over and grabbing it one-handed, and the one where nobody jumped.
The parochialism on here is getting ridiculous with people excusing multiple mistakes by one player they like and crucifying a player they don't like for a single error.
I like Aumua, and would have started him. If Samisoni was fit, Taylor would be 3rd hooker for me. None of which changes the fact that on this particular occasion he played shit.@reprobate said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Winger said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@reprobate said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Winger said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Saveas time is done for me his work rate is poor now he floats in and out of the game too much.
His captaincy is just not there under pressure we have nothing from the Captain.
TJ is done as well. We need the young HBs in, both are running threats which we need.
I hope we see some hard selections being made this week.Did you even watch the game.
Taylor should be dropped to the reserves and replaced with Aumua.If you're gonna ask that of someone else, then advocate for Aumua who totally shat the bed, the post becomes a bit of a joke.
And I say that as a fan of Aumua, and a critic of Taylor.He did ONE and only crocked lineout throw. He was only on for 15 minutes
Bullshit excuses sorry mate. There was one ruled not-straight, another missed not-straight which was saved pretty miraculously by Sititi stretching over and grabbing it one-handed, and the one where nobody jumped.
The parochialism on here is getting ridiculous with people excusing multiple mistakes by one player they like and crucifying a player they don't like for a single error.
I like Aumua, and would have started him. If Samisoni was fit, Taylor would be 3rd hooker for me. None of which changes the fact that on this particular occasion he played shit.Agree. One not straight. After his one start he was VG. As he was during super rugby
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@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
more than ever i think saveas best positions is impact off the bench
At the very best.
he's tired because he carreid the team on his shoulders for the RWC. Seriously, he was immense there- didn't make him grow and become a lineout option, but he was close to one of our best players last year. Short memories around here.
You're both right. TJ is past it (and you knew what you were getting when you picked him Razor), Ardie unbalances the trio and is getting on; Newell is pants around the park but Jase loves him, Blackadder is limited at 6 in Tests, and Reece is amazing at somethings, but still too small for front line tests.
@nzzp said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Reece is amazing at somethings, but still too small for front line tests.
Where has this rubbish come from suddenly?
We're all going to sit here and admire the boks and their big bulldozers on the wing? France... Ireland....big boppers eh.
Reece's size is fine. What's not fine is having no one to smash it up anywhere inside him.
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yeah, a lot of our wingers have copped more flak than they deserve over the last few years i think, when theyve had shit shovelled at them 25m behind the advantage line without having a single player drawn in...why didn;t you score!
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@Yeahtheboys said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Was Fozzie still as bad as everyone makes out?
Yes. So bad the team is still trying to shake him off. It's a credit to the coaching staff last night was the first loss of the season.
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Yeahtheboys said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Was Fozzie still as bad as everyone makes out?
Yes. So bad the team is still trying to shake him off. It's a credit to the coaching staff last night was the first loss of the season.
Well who gets credit for the fact it was most points scored aginst us in NZ??
The whole Fozzie is somehow responsible for last night's loss is f***en stupid. They would of lost first test not 3rd if it was in anyway a fact.I think the actual story is we are not a country that is a better than rest of world anymore with our players. We don't actually have world's top players anymore. Has been a afct since we lost the like of McCaw,DC etc etc. We went form probably 8 players that would be in or very close to a world 23 to perhaps 2-4 and now we have proably 1-2 at a very big stretch, but it will change as it has traditionally. The Boks have that kind of team at moment along with probably the best coach?
