All Blacks v Argentina II
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@brodean said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Not sure but Blackadder missed that tackle off the scrum near our line.
Contrast to Papali'i who nailed two guys in a row off an earlier scrum.
Blackadder looks like a guy confused and off the pace at times in between doing some good things. He basically looks like a guy who's played bugger all rugby in recent years which of course - he is.
Just curious, that would add weight to the overall numbers
Just the flow of possesion in the game I would say and Papali'is substitution. Papali'i has never been a guy that shirks tackling.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
The Crusaders have some shocking losses sprinkled through Razor's reign, but they were all forgotten as his teams had a very good habit of winning all of their finals, so he never really found out.
Perhaps you should just be thankful he actually won his finals games (17/17) and none of them fell under the shocking losses category (like Foster's all-time Super Rugby finals record 17-62 loss in 2009).
Razor coached 118 games in SR and you're telling us his team's not allowed a few shockers? In top level sport it's simply a matter of probability, like it's inevitable to have a few shockers especially if like Razor you are coaching the same club for 7 years.
btw he lost 16 games in total, 6 to Chiefs, 4 to Canes, 2 to Tahs, 2 to Landers, 1 to Blues, 1 to Drua.
I think in your eagerness to jump to Razor's defence you've missed the wider point
In a comp like Super Rugby you can afford to drop a few games as long as you come right at the business end
In test rugby every week is like a playoff.
Crusaders lost 4 games last year. Didn't matter.
If the ABs lose 4 games in a season there are alarm bells ringing (I know the season isn't the same number of games but you get the point).
I get the point, it doesn't seem a relevant criticism for Razor, he is after all the most successful coach in the history of NZ domestic rugby.
Seems a bit strange to expect every All Black coach to come into the job with a near perfect record at previous levels.
Henry for example had a more stacked Blues side than anything Razor had between 2017-23 but a lower winning record (80%) than Razor (84%) and lost finals games that Blues were favourites for.
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
I get the point, it doesn't seem a relevant criticism for Razor, he is after all the most successful coach in the history of NZ domestic rugby.
Maurice Trapp's Auckland won 95% of the games he coached them in. Fred Allen's record given the competitiveness of other sides is at least as good and Razor's already lost more tests than the Needle did as a coach.
Comparisons with 60 years ago are of course pointless but Razor and his supporters are learning very quickly that domestic success is only one indicator of future test coaching ability.
How he responds to this setback will quickly determine if he is First Class or Economy
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@brodean said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Not sure but Blackadder missed that tackle off the scrum near our line after the dodgy passing from our guys - which eventually led to a try.
Contrast to Papali'i who nailed two guys in a row off an earlier scrum.
Blackadder looks like a guy confused and off the pace at times in between doing some good things. He basically looks like a guy who's played bugger all rugby in recent years which of course - he is.
The guy making 20 tackles is the one off the pace?
As I mentioned "at times".
Particularly arriving late at rucks at times but also in support. For example the Darry try - Taylor passes Blackadder halfway up the field in support then burns Blackadder off.
Blackadder seems to be going full pace but is just kind of lumbering along.
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Blackadder reminds me of an NBA player who puts up huge stats but isn't overly impactful in the overall game.
Tom Christie racking up a heap of tackles for the Crusaders is another similar.
That's not to say Blackadder is alone in this - busy but ineffective I think can summarise a lot of the ABs play in recent times.
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As I mentioned "at times".
Particularly arriving late at rucks at times but also in support. For example the Darry try - Taylor passes Blackadder halfway up the field in support then burns Blackadder off.
Blackadder seems to be going full pace but is just kind of lumbering along.
@brodean said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
As I mentioned "at times".
Particularly arriving late at rucks at times but also in support. For example the Darry try - Taylor passes Blackadder halfway up the field in support then burns Blackadder off.
Blackadder seems to be going full pace but is just kind of lumbering along.
I'd be interested to see the ruck stats, if anyone has them.
A one-off example of support isn't particularly meaningful. Nobody can go 80 minutes flat out, and I think his work rate is excellent, as supported by the tackle stats. I find those interesting because in general I've thought EB is the least tackler of the options (vs Cane/DP/LJ), but a far better support/link player. -
Blackadder reminds me of an NBA player who puts up huge stats but isn't overly impactful in the overall game.
Tom Christie racking up a heap of tackles for the Crusaders is another similar.
That's not to say Blackadder is alone in this - busy but ineffective I think can summarise a lot of the ABs play in recent times.
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Blackadder reminds me of an NBA player who puts up huge stats but isn't overly impactful in the overall game.
Tom Christie racking up a heap of tackles for the Crusaders is another similar.
That's not to say Blackadder is alone in this - busy but ineffective I think can summarise a lot of the ABs play in recent times.
I think the Christie comparison applies more to Cane and Dalton and LJ: lots of tackles, but that's about it.
One side of the ball, I think Hoskins calls it. -
@brodean said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
As I mentioned "at times".
Particularly arriving late at rucks at times but also in support. For example the Darry try - Taylor passes Blackadder halfway up the field in support then burns Blackadder off.
Blackadder seems to be going full pace but is just kind of lumbering along.
I'd be interested to see the ruck stats, if anyone has them.
A one-off example of support isn't particularly meaningful. Nobody can go 80 minutes flat out, and I think his work rate is excellent, as supported by the tackle stats. I find those interesting because in general I've thought EB is the least tackler of the options (vs Cane/DP/LJ), but a far better support/link player.Not sure there is ruck stats are for the ABs but Papali'i hit more rucks than any other NZ player in Super Rugby this year.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Blackadder reminds me of an NBA player who puts up huge stats but isn't overly impactful in the overall game.
Tom Christie racking up a heap of tackles for the Crusaders is another similar.
That's not to say Blackadder is alone in this - busy but ineffective I think can summarise a lot of the ABs play in recent times.
I think the Christie comparison applies more to Cane and Dalton and LJ: lots of tackles, but that's about it.
One side of the ball, I think Hoskins calls it.Yeah don't agree. The Blues had the best defense in Super Rugby this year by some distance and Papali'i was their leading defender. He's an accurate effective defender.
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There's no doubt Ethan has a massive motor which is a huge benefit for loose forwards. I just get the feeling watching him that he'd be better off picking a few more of his moments and trying to make them really count.
And perhaps that McCaw level of knowing what the next play will be and picking that to have a game changing impact only comes with playing more.
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Reminds me a bit of Adam Thomson
@kiwiinmelb good call.
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Yeah don't agree. The Blues had the best defense in Super Rugby this year by some distance and Papali'i was their leading defender. He's an accurate effective defender.
@brodean said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Yeah don't agree. The Blues had the best defense in Super Rugby this year by some distance and Papali'i was their leading defender. He's an accurate effective defender.
Ī 100% agree with this, so I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with.
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@darylmitchell said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
I get the point, it doesn't seem a relevant criticism for Razor, he is after all the most successful coach in the history of NZ domestic rugby.
Maurice Trapp's Auckland won 95% of the games he coached them in. Fred Allen's record given the competitiveness of other sides is at least as good and Razor's already lost more tests than the Needle did as a coach.
Comparisons with 60 years ago are of course pointless but Razor and his supporters are learning very quickly that domestic success is only one indicator of future test coaching ability.
How he responds to this setback will quickly determine if he is First Class or Economy
@dogmeat said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
I get the point, it doesn't seem a relevant criticism for Razor, he is after all the most successful coach in the history of NZ domestic rugby.
Maurice Trapp's Auckland won 95% of the games he coached them in. Fred Allen's record given the competitiveness of other sides is at least as good and Razor's already lost more tests than the Needle did as a coach.
Comparisons with 60 years ago are of course pointless but Razor and his supporters are learning very quickly that domestic success is only one indicator of future test coaching ability.
How he responds to this setback will quickly determine if he is First Class or Economy
Maurice Trapp won 91% of his games with Auckland, John Hart won 87% and Graham Henry 80% - according to this:
https://www.rugbydatabase.co.nz/team/coachList.php?teamId=9
Razor is NZ's most successful domestic coach of the professional era, as he's won 3 titles at NPC level and 7 titles at Super Rugby level, the amateur game obviously shouldn't count for much in this discussion, if it did that would open up another can of worms wouldn't it?
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Blackadder supports far better than he links IMO. They use Ardie a lot to link in the forwards, Aumua against England. The real problem with the loosies is they are more reactive than proactive IMO. They hang back, only a few are opportunistic and easily isolated by the oppositon, hmm, is a problem a lack of enforcing?
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Also, I think goalkicking per se has not been a weakness. With exits it is as much accuracy as distance that is the issue IMO.
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Yeah don't agree. The Blues had the best defense in Super Rugby this year by some distance and Papali'i was their leading defender. He's an accurate effective defender.
@brodean said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Yeah don't agree. The Blues had the best defense in Super Rugby this year by some distance and Papali'i was their leading defender. He's an accurate effective defender.
Sure but is that form relating to Test match rugby is the question.
As a lot people have said on this forum SR form doesn't always convert to Test match form when discussing some players. -
Because Ethan played 80 and Papali'i played 60 and a lot of the Pumas possession came in the last quarter.
The ABs still had 55% possession over the game which means less tackling but the Pumas had 80% possession in the last 10 minutes.
@brodean said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Because Ethan played 80 and Papali'i played 60 and a lot of the Pumas possession came in the last quarter.
The ABs still had 55% possession over the game which means less tackling but the Pumas had 80% possession in the last 10 minutes.
You and your so called "facts".
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@brodean said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Yeah don't agree. The Blues had the best defense in Super Rugby this year by some distance and Papali'i was their leading defender. He's an accurate effective defender.
Sure but is that form relating to Test match rugby is the question.
As a lot people have said on this forum SR form doesn't always convert to Test match form when discussing some players.Yes and in test rugby I don't see Papali'i being the issue.
He does exactly what he's been doing for the Blues except there's no big 6 roughing people up at 6 for the ABs.
They need to stick with Finau who has shown he can rough people up. Something Blackadder has never done.
