Springboks vs All Blacks 2
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@Brandon No apologies needed IMHO. Teams can respond to the Haka how they see fit as long as they don't physically assault the players during the challenge, then I expect the ABs to fight back.
@sparky said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Brandon No apologies needed IMHO. Teams can respond to the Haka how they see fit as look as they don't physically assault the players during the challenge, then I expect the ABs to fight back.
Good sentiment Sparky.
Interestingly enough - the Boks (and Bok fans) relish the tradition and honour of facing the Haka.
Which is why Saturday's debacle probably riled us up more than you Kiwis!
The plane - couldn't be helped. But the stadium DJ... abominable. -
@sparky said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Brandon No apologies needed IMHO. Teams can respond to the Haka how they see fit as look as they don't physically assault the players during the challenge, then I expect the ABs to fight back.
Good sentiment Sparky.
Interestingly enough - the Boks (and Bok fans) relish the tradition and honour of facing the Haka.
Which is why Saturday's debacle probably riled us up more than you Kiwis!
The plane - couldn't be helped. But the stadium DJ... abominable.@Billy-Webb said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@sparky said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Brandon No apologies needed IMHO. Teams can respond to the Haka how they see fit as look as they don't physically assault the players during the challenge, then I expect the ABs to fight back.
Good sentiment Sparky.
Interestingly enough - the Boks (and Bok fans) relish the tradition and honour of facing the Haka.
Which is why Saturday's debacle probably riled us up more than you Kiwis!
The plane - couldn't be helped. But the stadium DJ... abominable.Yeah, both the French and the Saffas relish the haka, whereas many of the NH teams let it get into their heads. Even the Aussies went a bit like that for a while, when they tried to combat the haka with Waltzing Matilda
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Expect Boks to start with Etzebeth/Nortje/Du Toit. Maximum scrum and maul for first 60.
Perhaps Blacks need to try a similar theme. Start Scooter and Vaa'i. At 55ish Darry on and Vaa'i to 6 for 10 - 15. Hard to know who should be bench loosie. Perhaps Paps on for Niggles at 65 and run left/right flanks, or vice versa. Or could Lord be part of 6-2 bench?
Another thought: Would be very useful to have Codie there at end. Perhaps start Aumua for first 30 and bring on Codie for rest?
As for backs, Ratima on earlier, perhaps 50. It doesn't seem that ALB adds impact. Instead, is very much injury cover. Keep Clarke on for whole 80 if possible. Maybe start Telea and bench Jordan, who can come on in second. Replace DMac/Jordie/Rieko/Telea/Clarke or Beaudy depending how match develops!
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Some good points, decision making is shit. Pinned the finger at Jordie but lost minute Beaudy and DMac un willing to control the game with the boot, are just as had
https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/09/03/analysis-all-blacks-decision-making-must-take-share-of-blame-for-loss/ -
Further to my above post
Make a cup of tea
Most observers believe the ‘Bomb Squad’ is responsible for much of SA’s success
It’s more nuanced than that, and it’s the nuances which make more of a difference I believe
And which makes Rassie one of the all-time best coaches
Every coach endeavours to identify, select and develop at least 2, preferably 3 players in each position who will fit into the coach’s system and philosophy
Whilst there is a pecking order in the ability from 1st choice to 3rd choice the goal is to minimise the fall off of performance as you work through the ranks
In an ideal world the best XV will take the field and remain on the field
But with the nature of the modern game’s substitutions and forced and unenforced stoppages (‘injury’ breaks) it’s a rare match where all 23 players are not involved at some stage of the match
Selection of the 23 and the starting XV is paramount
If you keep too many of your best players on the bench to impact the match later on you may / would normally find that the match has already gone away from you and even these great players can’t affect the outcome
What Rassie does better than anyone else I believe is select a starting XV which will be in contention at the 50-60 minute mark
From the 50th minute he’s looking to introduce individuals or groups of players who are arguably not the best in their position but who are the smartest and most analytical thinkers
Referees are more lenient earlier on in the match with regards to penalising and definitely YC for professionalism, weak scrums and killing the ball
So as the referee warms into the match and begins to see patterns developing he’s more likely to penalise those committing the transgressions more frequently and more severely
This is where players like Marks and Kwagga come in
The drop off in ability from whom they replace is slight
Invariably these are the thinkers
Rassie and they have identified where they can have the most impact on the match with the least amount of censureWhilst both these players get penalised, they’re not penalty magnets
They commit their fouls in the right part of the park at the right time
Unlike other teams where the substitutes are behind the pace of the game and make dumb decisions which result in penalties and/or YCs
If SA are in the lead when players like these come on the referee interprets any 50/50 call in their favour more often than not
In the ref’s mind ‘SA are on top, these players are just reinforcing that. They’re fresh. Must have been the other guy committing the foul’
If SA are losing, they’ll soak up the pressure and seize the moment to turn the ball over when it presents itself. They don’t rush. They don’t let the adrenaline affect their decision making.
They’re fresher and also very skilled at turning the ball over and invariably they win the ball by fair means or get the call if it’s debatable
This then begins to change the narrative in the referee’s mind and if SA start pegging back the score then the referee starts to almost ‘reward’ this new found dominance. If becomes a virtuous cycle.
Conversely, other teams throw in a rookie who isn’t as disciplined and who becomes a penalty magnet
Or throw in a player who plays the game very differently from the player they’ve replaced and then the shape and patterns of play goes to shit
That’s why my suggestion of
Darry, Vaa’i
Scooter, Cane/Paps, ArdieBlackadder, Cane/Paps and possibly Finau
makes more sense than Razor’s selection and substitutions to date
But what do I know, I’m Welsh
@MiketheSnow said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
What Rassie does better than anyone else I believe is select a starting XV which will be in contention at the 50-60 minute mark
I think it's less Rassie than happy circumstance that SA has produced a significant depth when he's been in charge.
He's exploited and managed it well, but I feel he's getting credit for more than he should.
Circumstance have allowed him to implement some of his off the wall ideas.
The depth he has to play with is reminiscent of periods of AB history where the question was not who to select, but who to leave out.
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Yes, we definitely wanted to lose the guys capable of running our set piece, defending mauls etc.
Re-injuring Bell was one Joe's KPIs.
Anyone questioning this on social media is met with the smug outrage of a thousand Bok fans.
Why raise this here?
Because I am officially passing the mantle of "Guardians Of The Game" from you lot to Boks fans.
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Yes, we definitely wanted to lose the guys capable of running our set piece, defending mauls etc.
Re-injuring Bell was one Joe's KPIs.
Anyone questioning this on social media is met with the smug outrage of a thousand Bok fans.
Why raise this here?
Because I am officially passing the mantle of "Guardians Of The Game" from you lot to Boks fans.
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@sparky said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Brandon No apologies needed IMHO. Teams can respond to the Haka how they see fit as look as they don't physically assault the players during the challenge, then I expect the ABs to fight back.
Good sentiment Sparky.
Interestingly enough - the Boks (and Bok fans) relish the tradition and honour of facing the Haka.
Which is why Saturday's debacle probably riled us up more than you Kiwis!
The plane - couldn't be helped. But the stadium DJ... abominable.@Billy-Webb said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@sparky said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Brandon No apologies needed IMHO. Teams can respond to the Haka how they see fit as look as they don't physically assault the players during the challenge, then I expect the ABs to fight back.
Good sentiment Sparky.
Interestingly enough - the Boks (and Bok fans) relish the tradition and honour of facing the Haka.
Which is why Saturday's debacle probably riled us up more than you Kiwis!
The plane - couldn't be helped. But the stadium DJ... abominable.Oh God don't get me started on stadium DJs who just kill the atmosphere dead every time they blast out whatever awful music they've chosen on the day. An absolute blight.
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@NTA said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Because I am officially passing the mantle of "Guardians Of The Game" from you lot to Boks fans.
isn't it 'keepers of the line' like the filthy sandpapering cricketers?
@nzzp said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@NTA said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Because I am officially passing the mantle of "Guardians Of The Game" from you lot to Boks fans.
isn't it 'keepers of the line' like the filthy sandpapering cricketers?
Split the difference: "Keepers Of The Faith"
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@nzzp said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@NTA said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Because I am officially passing the mantle of "Guardians Of The Game" from you lot to Boks fans.
isn't it 'keepers of the line' like the filthy sandpapering cricketers?
Split the difference: "Keepers Of The Faith"
@NTA said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@nzzp said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@NTA said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Because I am officially passing the mantle of "Guardians Of The Game" from you lot to Boks fans.
isn't it 'keepers of the line' like the filthy sandpapering cricketers?
Split the difference: "Keepers Of The Faith"
Even you given up on the Wahs?
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@Billy-Webb said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@sparky said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Brandon No apologies needed IMHO. Teams can respond to the Haka how they see fit as look as they don't physically assault the players during the challenge, then I expect the ABs to fight back.
Good sentiment Sparky.
Interestingly enough - the Boks (and Bok fans) relish the tradition and honour of facing the Haka.
Which is why Saturday's debacle probably riled us up more than you Kiwis!
The plane - couldn't be helped. But the stadium DJ... abominable.Oh God don't get me started on stadium DJs who just kill the atmosphere dead every time they blast out whatever awful music they've chosen on the day. An absolute blight.
@No-Quarter said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
don't get me started on stadium DJs who just kill the atmosphere dead every time they blast out whatever awful music
they've chosen on the dayfrom Now Thats What I call Music 1996 Disc 1Fixed
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Much has been said about Tony Brown's influence on the bok team. I think they are headed in the wrong direction. When the boks reverted to traditional bash and subdue, they took control and won. The AB's are playing like last years boks, with a lot of kick and hope. Where are the AB game style critics now? @sparky, is the game going to die off?
The boks looked....dare I say it...poorly coached last weekend. The players pulled it through but it was pretty clueless. -
Much has been said about Tony Brown's influence on the bok team. I think they are headed in the wrong direction. When the boks reverted to traditional bash and subdue, they took control and won. The AB's are playing like last years boks, with a lot of kick and hope. Where are the AB game style critics now? @sparky, is the game going to die off?
The boks looked....dare I say it...poorly coached last weekend. The players pulled it through but it was pretty clueless.@W32 said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
The boks looked....dare I say it...poorly coached last weekend. The players pulled it through but it was pretty clueless.
The problem with winning game plans is they rarely evolve. The plan they have won 3 consecutive games by a point, and therefore a RWC.
Is Brown's presence noticeable in the fact they'll pass a bit in midfield instead of just playing Clatterball? Maybe. Could just be that they're playing Anyone But Handre at 10, which changes the ability of the team to execute certain plans. Mostly their plan is the same as before: bash up the middle, let the wingers do winger things when in position. The difference is that they're putting it through hands instead of the boot.
I think it was less about being poorly coached and more about new systems and execution. Certainly Reinach at 9 is a bit different to Faf. There was a bit of disruption with early blood and injuries as well.
The ABs could have made a bit more hay with a better scrum half IMHO, as speed of attacking ruck was where they looked ponderous.
One thought I had watching 5 Bok forwards trot out on the park just after halftime: that is a massive advantage over introducing your forward subs piecemeal. Chances are the starting and reserve lineup have trained as units in the leadup, so rather than individuals having to come up to match speed, you have a cohesive unit come on together and grow into the game together.
That might offer advantages in finishing more clinically, and give other coaches food for thought.
Nearly bit them in the arse when a couple of backs started to drop. That's the risk.
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@W32 said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
The boks looked....dare I say it...poorly coached last weekend. The players pulled it through but it was pretty clueless.
The problem with winning game plans is they rarely evolve. The plan they have won 3 consecutive games by a point, and therefore a RWC.
Is Brown's presence noticeable in the fact they'll pass a bit in midfield instead of just playing Clatterball? Maybe. Could just be that they're playing Anyone But Handre at 10, which changes the ability of the team to execute certain plans. Mostly their plan is the same as before: bash up the middle, let the wingers do winger things when in position. The difference is that they're putting it through hands instead of the boot.
I think it was less about being poorly coached and more about new systems and execution. Certainly Reinach at 9 is a bit different to Faf. There was a bit of disruption with early blood and injuries as well.
The ABs could have made a bit more hay with a better scrum half IMHO, as speed of attacking ruck was where they looked ponderous.
One thought I had watching 5 Bok forwards trot out on the park just after halftime: that is a massive advantage over introducing your forward subs piecemeal. Chances are the starting and reserve lineup have trained as units in the leadup, so rather than individuals having to come up to match speed, you have a cohesive unit come on together and grow into the game together.
That might offer advantages in finishing more clinically, and give other coaches food for thought.
Nearly bit them in the arse when a couple of backs started to drop. That's the risk.
@NTA said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@W32 said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
The boks looked....dare I say it...poorly coached last weekend. The players pulled it through but it was pretty clueless.
The problem with winning game plans is they rarely evolve. The plan they have won 3 consecutive games by a point, and therefore a RWC.
Is Brown's presence noticeable in the fact they'll pass a bit in midfield instead of just playing Clatterball? Maybe. Could just be that they're playing Anyone But Handre at 10, which changes the ability of the team to execute certain plans. Mostly their plan is the same as before: bash up the middle, let the wingers do winger things when in position. The difference is that they're putting it through hands instead of the boot.
I think it was less about being poorly coached and more about new systems and execution. Certainly Reinach at 9 is a bit different to Faf. There was a bit of disruption with early blood and injuries as well.
The ABs could have made a bit more hay with a better scrum half IMHO, as speed of attacking ruck was where they looked ponderous.
One thought I had watching 5 Bok forwards trot out on the park just after halftime: that is a massive advantage over introducing your forward subs piecemeal. Chances are the starting and reserve lineup have trained as units in the leadup, so rather than individuals having to come up to match speed, you have a cohesive unit come on together and grow into the game together.
That might offer advantages in finishing more clinically, and give other coaches food for thought.
Nearly bit them in the arse when a couple of backs started to drop. That's the risk.
Yes exactly. They are basically 2 packs that train against each other. The running the ball looks a bit ponderous, almost as if the players don't buy into it.
Scrumhalf is a big concern. Williams great as a sub to lift things. Cobus is starting to show his age. Missed Faf. -
@nzzp said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@NTA said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Because I am officially passing the mantle of "Guardians Of The Game" from you lot to Boks fans.
isn't it 'keepers of the line' like the filthy sandpapering cricketers?
Split the difference: "Keepers Of The Faith"
@NTA said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@nzzp said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@NTA said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Because I am officially passing the mantle of "Guardians Of The Game" from you lot to Boks fans.
isn't it 'keepers of the line' like the filthy sandpapering cricketers?
Split the difference: "Keepers Of The Faith"
Oathkeepers?
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@Brandon said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Just an apology from SA Rugby over the timing issue with flyover etc.
Best wishes
BI mean…very generous…but also - it’s also a bit embarrassing to think that some of us kiwis are genuinely upset about this - its a fucking A380, it’s kinda hard to time and manoeuvre perfectly!
All seems a bit precious to me
@voodoo said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Brandon said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Just an apology from SA Rugby over the timing issue with flyover etc.
Best wishes
BI mean…very generous…but also - it’s also a bit embarrassing to think that some of us kiwis are genuinely upset about this - its a fucking A380, it’s kinda hard to time and manoeuvre perfectly!
All seems a bit precious to me
" its a fucking A380, it’s kinda hard to time and manoeuvre perfectly! "
Um, no it's actually really easy, and happens at pretty much every arrival into every airport, but your point about preciousness remains!
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So for three games in a row our bench hasnt added value.
Who goes onto the bench to improve that?
Loosies still not what we want but do we even have the cattle for what we want?@Lancaster-Park said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
So for three games in a row our bench hasnt added value.
Who goes onto the bench to improve that?
Loosies still not what we want but do we even have the cattle for what we want?Bench changes:
Savea. Needs a rocket, and a better option than a gunshy and nervous Finau. Sititi to start, we've lost the championship and if you're gonna pick him you should be prepared to play him.
TJP. Just a handbrake. Give Ratima a start, and use the guy who won't be nervous late - which is also when defences are a bit slower and his inaccurate passing is under less pressure.
Taylor. Been very good, but Aumua is clearly feeling the pressure coming on late which is a real risk as lineout thrower - swap roles.
Beauden. Been shit. Historically best as a bench player so may be worth a go in that role. Shat the bed closing out the last game though so may be better off dropping completely out.
I don't see any point in carrying a specialist winger on the bench and subbing them as a matter of course. We have a heap of guys who could cover wing in the event of injury.
ALB is fine. Props are fine.
