Springboks vs All Blacks 2
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@Victor-Meldrew How many experienced combos do the ABs have right now?
Front row - EDG/CT/TL - TW has really pushed on. I think Samisoni is a big miss.
Locks - None
Back row - None (given Frizell is in Japan)
Halves - None
Centres - JB/RI - ALB as the support
Back 3 - MT/WJ/BB started the WC final. Add in CC and there is experience of playing together.
That is quite the gap in experience to begin from, even before looking at the lack of punch from the bench.
@stodders said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Victor-Meldrew How many experienced combos do the ABs have right now?
Front row - EDG/CT/TL - TW has really pushed on. I think Samisoni is a big miss.
Locks - None
Back row - None (given Frizell is in Japan)
Halves - None
Centres - JB/RI - ALB as the support
Back 3 - MT/WJ/BB started the WC final. Add in CC and there is experience of playing together.
That is quite the gap in experience to begin from, even before looking at the lack of punch from the bench.
But...but...but....we have all the cattle we want.....and the great coaching set-up we all knew was needed...
But seriously, apart from 9 and maybe 6, it's pretty much the same experienced players from RWC2023 (and ironically, the problems we expected at 4/5 haven't manifested themselves). Yet virtually all the old problems are still there - consistency, poor exits, brain-farts and an inability to regroup when needed.
Here's hoping Saturday, with the forced changes, sparks something.
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@pakman said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
What's the point in having these media moments? Absolutely no insight, just platitudes.
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@pakman said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
What's the point in having these media moments? Absolutely no insight, just platitudes.
@antipodean said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@pakman said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
What's the point in having these media moments? Absolutely no insight, just platitudes.
The personality has been drilled out of them all.
NZ rugby disappeared up its own arse a long time ago.
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@Jet said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@nostrildamus said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@bayimports said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Listening to Razor, sounded like benching TJP was more about acknowledging they can’t finish and want him there to do just that
I'm really surprised they'd bring his slower passing on in the last 20 or 30 minutes. Perhaps they have limited options..
It shows how bad our depth is that the likes of Cane and Perenara are still here even though they have "handed in their notice", when you consider how Charles Piutau was axed from 2015 RWC squad for signing to go overseas.
That 2015 RWC squad was one of the best we've ever had, at the top of their game. Definitely on a different part of the curve right now. I guess we can consider this a transitional year; in 2025 both TJP and Cane will be gone, if Roigard is back close to his best I expect him to be the starting 9 with Ratima on the bench. Hopefully some of the young Canes loosies like Iose and Lakai can kick on and challenge the incumbents. Frizzell should be back, we will see if he can kick on. I still want to see Sotutu given a chance to reach the required level or otherwise be found wanting, at least it will settle the matter. With Darry in, along with Scooter and Va'ai we have three decent locks. Hopefully BB will be supplanted by Love or Jordan or both, I'd still like to see if Plummer is test quality or not because I don't believe in Perofeta, and DMac has been good but not a lock at 10. Our front row stocks are okay, although Aumua needs to step it up. Over the next year or so Razor needs to work out who can hack it and if not, find others that can. RWC27 will be here before we know it
@canefan said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Hopefully some of the young Canes loosies like Iose and Lakai can kick on and challenge the incumbents.
Do you see Iose at 6 or 8?
I understand why they didn't choose Lakai but I'm interested to see if he is an option on the bigger stage or if he would simply be not big enough-he'd bring something different to the AB loosies I reckon..if Plummer is test quality or not because I don't believe in Perofeta, and DMac has been good but not a lock at 10.
How about Perofeta at 15? He seemed ok there for the ABs I thought..
I really think Plummer's game may suit the ABs, hope to see if I am right or not. -
@antipodean said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Billy-Webb said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
It certainly is a bit unusual for the Boks.
I am quite intrigued (and have no clue) as to why the Bok management have gone this route.They worked out we don't have much depth in this squad.
Bloody hell some of you guys are being hard on the AB team :grinning_squinting_face:
They didn't get spanked last week. One or two marginal things going their way in that test and they would have won.
I don't consider Saturday to be anything else than a 50:50 again. -
@stodders said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Victor-Meldrew How many experienced combos do the ABs have right now?
Front row - EDG/CT/TL - TW has really pushed on. I think Samisoni is a big miss.
Locks - None
Back row - None (given Frizell is in Japan)
Halves - None
Centres - JB/RI - ALB as the support
Back 3 - MT/WJ/BB started the WC final. Add in CC and there is experience of playing together.
That is quite the gap in experience to begin from, even before looking at the lack of punch from the bench.
But...but...but....we have all the cattle we want.....and the great coaching set-up we all knew was needed...
But seriously, apart from 9 and maybe 6, it's pretty much the same experienced players from RWC2023 (and ironically, the problems we expected at 4/5 haven't manifested themselves). Yet virtually all the old problems are still there - consistency, poor exits, brain-farts and an inability to regroup when needed.
Here's hoping Saturday, with the forced changes, sparks something.
@Victor-Meldrew Vaa’i has been okay but there’s no way he is doing even the little things that we were accustomed to with Retallick or Whitelock. Plus he’s still pretty green as a starter. Onwards and upwards there though.
Also McKenzie. He’s not that experienced as a starting 1st 5 and running a test team. So it’s a new 9/10 combo which as we have seen in years past - even with DC - these combos don’t just click overnight. Saw a few better things on Saturday though especially in attack from TJP (although he made some costly errors also).
We are missing Sami badly. Last year our hooker rotation was one of our better features and combinations. Add in Colesy too. Aumua is yet to hit his stride but a work in progress.
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@Victor-Meldrew Vaa’i has been okay but there’s no way he is doing even the little things that we were accustomed to with Retallick or Whitelock. Plus he’s still pretty green as a starter. Onwards and upwards there though.
Also McKenzie. He’s not that experienced as a starting 1st 5 and running a test team. So it’s a new 9/10 combo which as we have seen in years past - even with DC - these combos don’t just click overnight. Saw a few better things on Saturday though especially in attack from TJP (although he made some costly errors also).
We are missing Sami badly. Last year our hooker rotation was one of our better features and combinations. Add in Colesy too. Aumua is yet to hit his stride but a work in progress.
@ACT-Crusader said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
We are missing Sami badly.
Yep That fulla was great. No nonsense and got stuck in
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@ACT-Crusader said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
We are missing Sami badly.
Yep That fulla was great. No nonsense and got stuck in
@BerniesCorner Would love be able to start with Sami and bring Codie on for the business end.
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@Billy-Webb We havent won since 2005 in Cape Town, with Willie and Pollard back I will make the All Blacks the favorites. Glad Moodie got the nod. Kitshoff, BJD & Mapimpi straight back in CC this weekend.
@OomPB said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Billy-Webb We havent won since 2005 in Cape Town, with Willie and Pollard back I will make the All Blacks the favorites. Glad Moodie got the nod. Kitshoff, BJD & Mapimpi straight back in CC this weekend.
Remember that game well. We had just come off the Lions tour and Matfield hit Kelleher with a big swinging arm and late. Kelleher was dazed but stayed on and threw a wild pass that was intercepted. Then he went off and we bought on a young Weepu who was only playing his second test.
Mils started on the left wing for the first (and only) time in his test career. DC had one of his worst tests too.
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@OomPB said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Billy-Webb We havent won since 2005 in Cape Town, with Willie and Pollard back I will make the All Blacks the favorites. Glad Moodie got the nod. Kitshoff, BJD & Mapimpi straight back in CC this weekend.
Remember that game well. We had just come off the Lions tour and Matfield hit Kelleher with a big swinging arm and late. Kelleher was dazed but stayed on and threw a wild pass that was intercepted. Then he went off and we bought on a young Weepu who was only playing his second test.
Mils started on the left wing for the first (and only) time in his test career. DC had one of his worst tests too.
@ACT-Crusader said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@OomPB said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Billy-Webb We havent won since 2005 in Cape Town, with Willie and Pollard back I will make the All Blacks the favorites. Glad Moodie got the nod. Kitshoff, BJD & Mapimpi straight back in CC this weekend.
Remember that game well. We had just come off the Lions tour and Matfield hit Kelleher with a big swinging arm and late. Kelleher was dazed but stayed on and threw a wild pass that was intercepted. Then he went off and we bought on a young Weepu who was only playing his second test.
Mils started on the left wing for the first (and only) time in his test career. DC had one of his worst tests too.
When rotation was in full swing (and worked well tbf).
Leon MacDonald started the next test between the sides in Dunedin at 10 if memory serves me right.
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@ACT-Crusader said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@OomPB said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Billy-Webb We havent won since 2005 in Cape Town, with Willie and Pollard back I will make the All Blacks the favorites. Glad Moodie got the nod. Kitshoff, BJD & Mapimpi straight back in CC this weekend.
Remember that game well. We had just come off the Lions tour and Matfield hit Kelleher with a big swinging arm and late. Kelleher was dazed but stayed on and threw a wild pass that was intercepted. Then he went off and we bought on a young Weepu who was only playing his second test.
Mils started on the left wing for the first (and only) time in his test career. DC had one of his worst tests too.
When rotation was in full swing (and worked well tbf).
Leon MacDonald started the next test between the sides in Dunedin at 10 if memory serves me right.
@African-Monkey said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@ACT-Crusader said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@OomPB said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Billy-Webb We havent won since 2005 in Cape Town, with Willie and Pollard back I will make the All Blacks the favorites. Glad Moodie got the nod. Kitshoff, BJD & Mapimpi straight back in CC this weekend.
Remember that game well. We had just come off the Lions tour and Matfield hit Kelleher with a big swinging arm and late. Kelleher was dazed but stayed on and threw a wild pass that was intercepted. Then he went off and we bought on a young Weepu who was only playing his second test.
Mils started on the left wing for the first (and only) time in his test career. DC had one of his worst tests too.
When rotation was in full swing (and worked well tbf).
Leon MacDonald started the next test between the sides in Dunedin at 10 if memory serves me right.
Didn’t McDonald go off injured in that game too? Put up a high kick and after he kicked it his back went and he collapsed to the ground.
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@pakman said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
What's the point in having these media moments? Absolutely no insight, just platitudes.
@antipodean said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@pakman said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
What's the point in having these media moments? Absolutely no insight, just platitudes.
It’s one of the reasons I love Keo and Zels content on YouTube. South African bias sure but THEY ACTUALLY SAY SOMETHING.
They will say “nah that player is no great shakes , we have his number” and similarly their distance from the AB’s allows them to make more dispassionate calls about our players.
All we get in NZ is unjustified relentless positivity. Vibes and feels.
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@African-Monkey said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@ACT-Crusader said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@OomPB said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Billy-Webb We havent won since 2005 in Cape Town, with Willie and Pollard back I will make the All Blacks the favorites. Glad Moodie got the nod. Kitshoff, BJD & Mapimpi straight back in CC this weekend.
Remember that game well. We had just come off the Lions tour and Matfield hit Kelleher with a big swinging arm and late. Kelleher was dazed but stayed on and threw a wild pass that was intercepted. Then he went off and we bought on a young Weepu who was only playing his second test.
Mils started on the left wing for the first (and only) time in his test career. DC had one of his worst tests too.
When rotation was in full swing (and worked well tbf).
Leon MacDonald started the next test between the sides in Dunedin at 10 if memory serves me right.
Didn’t McDonald go off injured in that game too? Put up a high kick and after he kicked it his back went and he collapsed to the ground.
@Jet said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@African-Monkey said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@ACT-Crusader said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@OomPB said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Billy-Webb We havent won since 2005 in Cape Town, with Willie and Pollard back I will make the All Blacks the favorites. Glad Moodie got the nod. Kitshoff, BJD & Mapimpi straight back in CC this weekend.
Remember that game well. We had just come off the Lions tour and Matfield hit Kelleher with a big swinging arm and late. Kelleher was dazed but stayed on and threw a wild pass that was intercepted. Then he went off and we bought on a young Weepu who was only playing his second test.
Mils started on the left wing for the first (and only) time in his test career. DC had one of his worst tests too.
When rotation was in full swing (and worked well tbf).
Leon MacDonald started the next test between the sides in Dunedin at 10 if memory serves me right.
Didn’t McDonald go off injured in that game too? Put up a high kick and after he kicked it his back went and he collapsed to the ground.
Yeah one of his many head knocks I think (my memory is iffy).
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@Jet said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@African-Monkey said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@ACT-Crusader said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@OomPB said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Billy-Webb We havent won since 2005 in Cape Town, with Willie and Pollard back I will make the All Blacks the favorites. Glad Moodie got the nod. Kitshoff, BJD & Mapimpi straight back in CC this weekend.
Remember that game well. We had just come off the Lions tour and Matfield hit Kelleher with a big swinging arm and late. Kelleher was dazed but stayed on and threw a wild pass that was intercepted. Then he went off and we bought on a young Weepu who was only playing his second test.
Mils started on the left wing for the first (and only) time in his test career. DC had one of his worst tests too.
When rotation was in full swing (and worked well tbf).
Leon MacDonald started the next test between the sides in Dunedin at 10 if memory serves me right.
Didn’t McDonald go off injured in that game too? Put up a high kick and after he kicked it his back went and he collapsed to the ground.
Yeah one of his many head knocks I think (my memory is iffy).
@African-Monkey said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Jet said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@African-Monkey said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@ACT-Crusader said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@OomPB said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Billy-Webb We havent won since 2005 in Cape Town, with Willie and Pollard back I will make the All Blacks the favorites. Glad Moodie got the nod. Kitshoff, BJD & Mapimpi straight back in CC this weekend.
Remember that game well. We had just come off the Lions tour and Matfield hit Kelleher with a big swinging arm and late. Kelleher was dazed but stayed on and threw a wild pass that was intercepted. Then he went off and we bought on a young Weepu who was only playing his second test.
Mils started on the left wing for the first (and only) time in his test career. DC had one of his worst tests too.
When rotation was in full swing (and worked well tbf).
Leon MacDonald started the next test between the sides in Dunedin at 10 if memory serves me right.
Didn’t McDonald go off injured in that game too? Put up a high kick and after he kicked it his back went and he collapsed to the ground.
Yeah one of his many head knocks I think (my memory is iffy).
think it was his back that went on this occasion.
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@OomPB said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Billy-Webb We havent won since 2005 in Cape Town, with Willie and Pollard back I will make the All Blacks the favorites. Glad Moodie got the nod. Kitshoff, BJD & Mapimpi straight back in CC this weekend.
Remember that game well. We had just come off the Lions tour and Matfield hit Kelleher with a big swinging arm and late. Kelleher was dazed but stayed on and threw a wild pass that was intercepted. Then he went off and we bought on a young Weepu who was only playing his second test.
Mils started on the left wing for the first (and only) time in his test career. DC had one of his worst tests too.
@ACT-Crusader said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@OomPB said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Billy-Webb We havent won since 2005 in Cape Town, with Willie and Pollard back I will make the All Blacks the favorites. Glad Moodie got the nod. Kitshoff, BJD & Mapimpi straight back in CC this weekend.
Remember that game well. We had just come off the Lions tour and Matfield hit Kelleher with a big swinging arm and late. Kelleher was dazed but stayed on and threw a wild pass that was intercepted. Then he went off and we bought on a young Weepu who was only playing his second test.
Mils started on the left wing for the first (and only) time in his test career. DC had one of his worst tests too.
Yes, @OomPB I also vividly recall that game.
It was post the B&I Lions tour to NZ when DC was imperious.
Was at an event hosted by Nick Mallett prior to that test where he was clear that the way for the Boks to win was to cut DC off. Great job by the legend Victor Matfield then :winking_face: -
@ACT-Crusader said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@OomPB said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Billy-Webb We havent won since 2005 in Cape Town, with Willie and Pollard back I will make the All Blacks the favorites. Glad Moodie got the nod. Kitshoff, BJD & Mapimpi straight back in CC this weekend.
Remember that game well. We had just come off the Lions tour and Matfield hit Kelleher with a big swinging arm and late. Kelleher was dazed but stayed on and threw a wild pass that was intercepted. Then he went off and we bought on a young Weepu who was only playing his second test.
Mils started on the left wing for the first (and only) time in his test career. DC had one of his worst tests too.
Yes, @OomPB I also vividly recall that game.
It was post the B&I Lions tour to NZ when DC was imperious.
Was at an event hosted by Nick Mallett prior to that test where he was clear that the way for the Boks to win was to cut DC off. Great job by the legend Victor Matfield then :winking_face:@Billy-Webb that was Newlands, let's hope DHL Stadium is good to us. It brought good times for the Stormers.
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@nostrildamus are yes. The Wallabies. A notoriously tough and physical team…. Watch the final and semi finals against the crusaders. Akira and Sotutu got bullied by Blackadder, Grace, and Christie (and Matera). So what I said is true. Every time Akira comes up against opposition as big or bigger, he’s a marshmallow. Don’t show me highlight reals of dogshite
@KiwiInLondon I remember Akira playing against g Eben etc. There was no backward step, he can be very physical. I’ve never seen him backdown. If you say he can be lazy, I agree but he is extremely strong and powerful. I can’t answer you re the blues vs crusaders as I didn’t see the game.
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@pakman said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Hear it's forecast to be gusty on Satyrday?
Sunny 15C, Wind: 19 mph
That's a splendid day where I come from.
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FFS sititi at 6, a position he's never started at since when? Against SA, in SA, in his third test. Razor had lost the loose forward plot. Will Jordan shit the bed at fullback? I reckon he will.
All Blacks team to play Springboks
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Tamaiti Williams (10)
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Codie Taylor (90)
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Tyrel Lomax (37)
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Scott Barrett (73) (Captain)
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Tupou Vaa’i (31)
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Wallace Sititi (2)
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Sam Cane (97)
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Ardie Savea (87) (Vice Captain)
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Cortez Ratima (5)
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Damian McKenzie (53)
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Mark Tele’a (14)
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Jordie Barrett (63) (Vice Captain)
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Rieko Ioane (74)
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Sevu Reece (27)
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Will Jordan (34)
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Asafo Aumua (12)
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Ofa Tu’ungafasi (62)
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Fletcher Newell (19)
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Sam Darry (4)
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Luke Jacobson (21)
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TJ Perenara (85)
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Anton Lienert-Brown (76)
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Beauden Barrett (129)
@Machpants said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
FFS sititi at 6, a position he's never started at since when? Against SA, in SA, in his third tes
So you would prefer picking an inferior player?
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