Americas cup
-
@canefan said in Americas cup:
@DaGrubster said in Americas cup:
European base hasn’t really helped them with a broadcast deal as it is live on YouTube- with about 15000 watching live.
I wonder how the viewer numbers compare to Sail GP?
Probably a lot lower as sailGP has had regular seasons and event over multiple years to build up a following.
They have twice as many subscribers than the AM cup on youtube.
@DaGrubster said in Americas cup:
@canefan said in Americas cup:
@DaGrubster said in Americas cup:
European base hasn’t really helped them with a broadcast deal as it is live on YouTube- with about 15000 watching live.
I wonder how the viewer numbers compare to Sail GP?
Probably a lot lower as sailGP has had regular seasons and event over multiple years to build up a following.
They have twice as many subscribers than the AM cup on youtube.
It seems like AC is more niche than at any time in its recent history. I don't know what it was like in the early and mid 1900s. I don't even know how big it was just before the Aussies won it. But it seemed like the period from 1987 until Alinghi won it was pretty high profile. Maybe it was just the feel in NZ because we were right in it. Maybe it's always been niche
-
@Kiwiwomble said in Americas cup:
@MajorRage said in Americas cup:
Coming in from a point of no education here, but it does make sense to move it around.
Yes, they've attracted a lot of money, visitors and teams into NZ, but how mucho f that is going to come back 3 years later? The teams will, obviously, but the flotilla of super yachts / fans etc? Hard to tell. NZ is incredibly difficult to get to & if you were there just 3 years ago, would you be in a hurry to get back there so soon?
Kind of like a rugby world cup. If it was held in NZ in 2015 again, would it have been as big of a success as the UK? Or would people be looking at it thinking, long way to go, only went there recently, will skip this.
Looking at the last 4, it's' been Valencia, San Fran, Bermuda, Auckland ... what an awesome set of locations and keeps the vibe alive. If it was NZ again, would that same vibe exists with it being in Barcelona this time?
I have my doubts. Would you rather pop across to Spain for the next one is do the long journey to NZ, again. For basically exactly the same thing.
Bit of a no brainer for me.
some challengers also said they wouldnt come back to NZ, more expensive to get to/set up base and they could get more/better sponsors if held in a European city
All of the same sponsors from Auckland are on board and have been long term partners.
I don’t think they needed a European city for American magic to snare that blue chip sponsor Founders brewery - revenue $348m - pretty small beer (embrace the pun!)
I get that travelling to Nz may take longer - so what.
It’s not a weekly commute.European base hasn’t really helped them with a broadcast deal as it is live on YouTube- with about 15000 watching live.
@DaGrubster said in Americas cup:
@Kiwiwomble said in Americas cup:
@MajorRage said in Americas cup:
Coming in from a point of no education here, but it does make sense to move it around.
Yes, they've attracted a lot of money, visitors and teams into NZ, but how mucho f that is going to come back 3 years later? The teams will, obviously, but the flotilla of super yachts / fans etc? Hard to tell. NZ is incredibly difficult to get to & if you were there just 3 years ago, would you be in a hurry to get back there so soon?
Kind of like a rugby world cup. If it was held in NZ in 2015 again, would it have been as big of a success as the UK? Or would people be looking at it thinking, long way to go, only went there recently, will skip this.
Looking at the last 4, it's' been Valencia, San Fran, Bermuda, Auckland ... what an awesome set of locations and keeps the vibe alive. If it was NZ again, would that same vibe exists with it being in Barcelona this time?
I have my doubts. Would you rather pop across to Spain for the next one is do the long journey to NZ, again. For basically exactly the same thing.
Bit of a no brainer for me.
some challengers also said they wouldnt come back to NZ, more expensive to get to/set up base and they could get more/better sponsors if held in a European city
All of the same sponsors from Auckland are on board and have been long term partners.
I don’t think they needed a European city for American magic to snare that blue chip sponsor Founders brewery - revenue $348m - pretty small beer (embrace the pun!)
I get that travelling to Nz may take longer - so what.
It’s not a weekly commute.European base hasn’t really helped them with a broadcast deal as it is live on YouTube- with about 15000 watching live.
i was meaning challengers, several interested teams/parties never came to fruition in 2021 because some potential backers didn't think little old NZ wold give them enough profile
it wasn;t the time but the cost to to ship their boats and all equipment to NZ
may not have payed off (proven wrong?) but those were some of the reasons for the decisions made
-
@Daffy-Jaffy Thanks for that. Great analysis of the fluid dynamics. I am more convinced by his comments on hydro design than aero. I also know more about aero than hydro (given my profession) so that may be why. He does mention the maneuver is when following Luna Rossa, to which he has perhaps not given enough weight? There is serious cavitation in that turbulent flow when behind and will always making turning up more difficult so may not concern Team Traitor too much.
From the hydraulics standpoint what he says is valid, but that is a cost benefit analysis with more control over the skins against marginally more oil usage? They must have decided that over the course of a race it was a benefit as opposed to the issue everyone has (to a point) with multiple quick maneuvers prestart. I am of course used to having 3 independent systems with redundancy, comprising electric and air driven pumps, with accumulators, not 4 blokes pedaling!
It will be interesting to see whether they change anything when they review it all. The answer of course is to never get behind because it completely stuffs both aero and hydro dynamics. That has always been the case with sailing but is worse with foils and so little of the boat in the water. Also much easier said than done. It is also why so many of the races have been a procession once someone gets in front.
We got any fluid dynamics engineering types on here that could shed some more light?
-
@DaGrubster said in Americas cup:
@canefan said in Americas cup:
@DaGrubster said in Americas cup:
European base hasn’t really helped them with a broadcast deal as it is live on YouTube- with about 15000 watching live.
I wonder how the viewer numbers compare to Sail GP?
Probably a lot lower as sailGP has had regular seasons and event over multiple years to build up a following.
They have twice as many subscribers than the AM cup on youtube.
It seems like AC is more niche than at any time in its recent history. I don't know what it was like in the early and mid 1900s. I don't even know how big it was just before the Aussies won it. But it seemed like the period from 1987 until Alinghi won it was pretty high profile. Maybe it was just the feel in NZ because we were right in it. Maybe it's always been niche
@canefan said in Americas cup:
@DaGrubster said in Americas cup:
@canefan said in Americas cup:
@DaGrubster said in Americas cup:
European base hasn’t really helped them with a broadcast deal as it is live on YouTube- with about 15000 watching live.
I wonder how the viewer numbers compare to Sail GP?
Probably a lot lower as sailGP has had regular seasons and event over multiple years to build up a following.
They have twice as many subscribers than the AM cup on youtube.
It seems like AC is more niche than at any time in its recent history. I don't know what it was like in the early and mid 1900s. I don't even know if how big it was just before the Aussies won it. But it seemed like the period from 1987 until Alinghi won it was pretty high profile. Maybe it was just the feel in NZ because we were right in it. Maybe it's always been niche
I think it has always been niche.
A niche event in a niche sport is pretty fucking niche!!
-
@DaGrubster said in Americas cup:
@Kiwiwomble said in Americas cup:
@MajorRage said in Americas cup:
Coming in from a point of no education here, but it does make sense to move it around.
Yes, they've attracted a lot of money, visitors and teams into NZ, but how mucho f that is going to come back 3 years later? The teams will, obviously, but the flotilla of super yachts / fans etc? Hard to tell. NZ is incredibly difficult to get to & if you were there just 3 years ago, would you be in a hurry to get back there so soon?
Kind of like a rugby world cup. If it was held in NZ in 2015 again, would it have been as big of a success as the UK? Or would people be looking at it thinking, long way to go, only went there recently, will skip this.
Looking at the last 4, it's' been Valencia, San Fran, Bermuda, Auckland ... what an awesome set of locations and keeps the vibe alive. If it was NZ again, would that same vibe exists with it being in Barcelona this time?
I have my doubts. Would you rather pop across to Spain for the next one is do the long journey to NZ, again. For basically exactly the same thing.
Bit of a no brainer for me.
some challengers also said they wouldnt come back to NZ, more expensive to get to/set up base and they could get more/better sponsors if held in a European city
All of the same sponsors from Auckland are on board and have been long term partners.
I don’t think they needed a European city for American magic to snare that blue chip sponsor Founders brewery - revenue $348m - pretty small beer (embrace the pun!)
I get that travelling to Nz may take longer - so what.
It’s not a weekly commute.European base hasn’t really helped them with a broadcast deal as it is live on YouTube- with about 15000 watching live.
i was meaning challengers, several interested teams/parties never came to fruition in 2021 because some potential backers didn't think little old NZ wold give them enough profile
it wasn;t the time but the cost to to ship their boats and all equipment to NZ
may not have payed off (proven wrong?) but those were some of the reasons for the decisions made
@Kiwiwomble said in Americas cup:
@DaGrubster said in Americas cup:
@Kiwiwomble said in Americas cup:
@MajorRage said in Americas cup:
Coming in from a point of no education here, but it does make sense to move it around.
Yes, they've attracted a lot of money, visitors and teams into NZ, but how mucho f that is going to come back 3 years later? The teams will, obviously, but the flotilla of super yachts / fans etc? Hard to tell. NZ is incredibly difficult to get to & if you were there just 3 years ago, would you be in a hurry to get back there so soon?
Kind of like a rugby world cup. If it was held in NZ in 2015 again, would it have been as big of a success as the UK? Or would people be looking at it thinking, long way to go, only went there recently, will skip this.
Looking at the last 4, it's' been Valencia, San Fran, Bermuda, Auckland ... what an awesome set of locations and keeps the vibe alive. If it was NZ again, would that same vibe exists with it being in Barcelona this time?
I have my doubts. Would you rather pop across to Spain for the next one is do the long journey to NZ, again. For basically exactly the same thing.
Bit of a no brainer for me.
some challengers also said they wouldnt come back to NZ, more expensive to get to/set up base and they could get more/better sponsors if held in a European city
All of the same sponsors from Auckland are on board and have been long term partners.
I don’t think they needed a European city for American magic to snare that blue chip sponsor Founders brewery - revenue $348m - pretty small beer (embrace the pun!)
I get that travelling to Nz may take longer - so what.
It’s not a weekly commute.European base hasn’t really helped them with a broadcast deal as it is live on YouTube- with about 15000 watching live.
i was meaning challengers, several interested teams/parties never came to fruition in 2021 because some potential backers didn't think little old NZ wold give them enough profile
it wasn;t the time but the cost to to ship their boats and all equipment to NZ
may not have payed off (proven wrong?) but those were some of the reasons for the decisions made
It’s always been like that. There really are only a few teams/yacht clubs that are mainstays in the competition.
Which isn’t a surprise really when you consider that there really is little exposure and competition for the money poured into a campaign.
Take last AC. Team Nz would have spent $100m to sail their boat about 15 times!?
-
@Kiwiwomble said in Americas cup:
@DaGrubster said in Americas cup:
@Kiwiwomble said in Americas cup:
@MajorRage said in Americas cup:
Coming in from a point of no education here, but it does make sense to move it around.
Yes, they've attracted a lot of money, visitors and teams into NZ, but how mucho f that is going to come back 3 years later? The teams will, obviously, but the flotilla of super yachts / fans etc? Hard to tell. NZ is incredibly difficult to get to & if you were there just 3 years ago, would you be in a hurry to get back there so soon?
Kind of like a rugby world cup. If it was held in NZ in 2015 again, would it have been as big of a success as the UK? Or would people be looking at it thinking, long way to go, only went there recently, will skip this.
Looking at the last 4, it's' been Valencia, San Fran, Bermuda, Auckland ... what an awesome set of locations and keeps the vibe alive. If it was NZ again, would that same vibe exists with it being in Barcelona this time?
I have my doubts. Would you rather pop across to Spain for the next one is do the long journey to NZ, again. For basically exactly the same thing.
Bit of a no brainer for me.
some challengers also said they wouldnt come back to NZ, more expensive to get to/set up base and they could get more/better sponsors if held in a European city
All of the same sponsors from Auckland are on board and have been long term partners.
I don’t think they needed a European city for American magic to snare that blue chip sponsor Founders brewery - revenue $348m - pretty small beer (embrace the pun!)
I get that travelling to Nz may take longer - so what.
It’s not a weekly commute.European base hasn’t really helped them with a broadcast deal as it is live on YouTube- with about 15000 watching live.
i was meaning challengers, several interested teams/parties never came to fruition in 2021 because some potential backers didn't think little old NZ wold give them enough profile
it wasn;t the time but the cost to to ship their boats and all equipment to NZ
may not have payed off (proven wrong?) but those were some of the reasons for the decisions made
It’s always been like that. There really are only a few teams/yacht clubs that are mainstays in the competition.
Which isn’t a surprise really when you consider that there really is little exposure and competition for the money poured into a campaign.
Take last AC. Team Nz would have spent $100m to sail their boat about 15 times!?
@DaGrubster said in Americas cup:
@Kiwiwomble said in Americas cup:
@DaGrubster said in Americas cup:
@Kiwiwomble said in Americas cup:
@MajorRage said in Americas cup:
Coming in from a point of no education here, but it does make sense to move it around.
Yes, they've attracted a lot of money, visitors and teams into NZ, but how mucho f that is going to come back 3 years later? The teams will, obviously, but the flotilla of super yachts / fans etc? Hard to tell. NZ is incredibly difficult to get to & if you were there just 3 years ago, would you be in a hurry to get back there so soon?
Kind of like a rugby world cup. If it was held in NZ in 2015 again, would it have been as big of a success as the UK? Or would people be looking at it thinking, long way to go, only went there recently, will skip this.
Looking at the last 4, it's' been Valencia, San Fran, Bermuda, Auckland ... what an awesome set of locations and keeps the vibe alive. If it was NZ again, would that same vibe exists with it being in Barcelona this time?
I have my doubts. Would you rather pop across to Spain for the next one is do the long journey to NZ, again. For basically exactly the same thing.
Bit of a no brainer for me.
some challengers also said they wouldnt come back to NZ, more expensive to get to/set up base and they could get more/better sponsors if held in a European city
All of the same sponsors from Auckland are on board and have been long term partners.
I don’t think they needed a European city for American magic to snare that blue chip sponsor Founders brewery - revenue $348m - pretty small beer (embrace the pun!)
I get that travelling to Nz may take longer - so what.
It’s not a weekly commute.European base hasn’t really helped them with a broadcast deal as it is live on YouTube- with about 15000 watching live.
i was meaning challengers, several interested teams/parties never came to fruition in 2021 because some potential backers didn't think little old NZ wold give them enough profile
it wasn;t the time but the cost to to ship their boats and all equipment to NZ
may not have payed off (proven wrong?) but those were some of the reasons for the decisions made
It’s always been like that. There really are only a few teams/yacht clubs that are mainstays in the competition.
Which isn’t a surprise really when you consider that there really is little exposure and competition for the money poured into a campaign.
Take last AC. Team Nz would have spent $100m to sail their boat about 15 times!?
Well it was always a rich man's game as they say
-
@Kiwiwomble said in Americas cup:
@DaGrubster said in Americas cup:
@Kiwiwomble said in Americas cup:
@MajorRage said in Americas cup:
Coming in from a point of no education here, but it does make sense to move it around.
Yes, they've attracted a lot of money, visitors and teams into NZ, but how mucho f that is going to come back 3 years later? The teams will, obviously, but the flotilla of super yachts / fans etc? Hard to tell. NZ is incredibly difficult to get to & if you were there just 3 years ago, would you be in a hurry to get back there so soon?
Kind of like a rugby world cup. If it was held in NZ in 2015 again, would it have been as big of a success as the UK? Or would people be looking at it thinking, long way to go, only went there recently, will skip this.
Looking at the last 4, it's' been Valencia, San Fran, Bermuda, Auckland ... what an awesome set of locations and keeps the vibe alive. If it was NZ again, would that same vibe exists with it being in Barcelona this time?
I have my doubts. Would you rather pop across to Spain for the next one is do the long journey to NZ, again. For basically exactly the same thing.
Bit of a no brainer for me.
some challengers also said they wouldnt come back to NZ, more expensive to get to/set up base and they could get more/better sponsors if held in a European city
All of the same sponsors from Auckland are on board and have been long term partners.
I don’t think they needed a European city for American magic to snare that blue chip sponsor Founders brewery - revenue $348m - pretty small beer (embrace the pun!)
I get that travelling to Nz may take longer - so what.
It’s not a weekly commute.European base hasn’t really helped them with a broadcast deal as it is live on YouTube- with about 15000 watching live.
i was meaning challengers, several interested teams/parties never came to fruition in 2021 because some potential backers didn't think little old NZ wold give them enough profile
it wasn;t the time but the cost to to ship their boats and all equipment to NZ
may not have payed off (proven wrong?) but those were some of the reasons for the decisions made
It’s always been like that. There really are only a few teams/yacht clubs that are mainstays in the competition.
Which isn’t a surprise really when you consider that there really is little exposure and competition for the money poured into a campaign.
Take last AC. Team Nz would have spent $100m to sail their boat about 15 times!?
@DaGrubster said in Americas cup:
@Kiwiwomble said in Americas cup:
@DaGrubster said in Americas cup:
@Kiwiwomble said in Americas cup:
@MajorRage said in Americas cup:
Coming in from a point of no education here, but it does make sense to move it around.
Yes, they've attracted a lot of money, visitors and teams into NZ, but how mucho f that is going to come back 3 years later? The teams will, obviously, but the flotilla of super yachts / fans etc? Hard to tell. NZ is incredibly difficult to get to & if you were there just 3 years ago, would you be in a hurry to get back there so soon?
Kind of like a rugby world cup. If it was held in NZ in 2015 again, would it have been as big of a success as the UK? Or would people be looking at it thinking, long way to go, only went there recently, will skip this.
Looking at the last 4, it's' been Valencia, San Fran, Bermuda, Auckland ... what an awesome set of locations and keeps the vibe alive. If it was NZ again, would that same vibe exists with it being in Barcelona this time?
I have my doubts. Would you rather pop across to Spain for the next one is do the long journey to NZ, again. For basically exactly the same thing.
Bit of a no brainer for me.
some challengers also said they wouldnt come back to NZ, more expensive to get to/set up base and they could get more/better sponsors if held in a European city
All of the same sponsors from Auckland are on board and have been long term partners.
I don’t think they needed a European city for American magic to snare that blue chip sponsor Founders brewery - revenue $348m - pretty small beer (embrace the pun!)
I get that travelling to Nz may take longer - so what.
It’s not a weekly commute.European base hasn’t really helped them with a broadcast deal as it is live on YouTube- with about 15000 watching live.
i was meaning challengers, several interested teams/parties never came to fruition in 2021 because some potential backers didn't think little old NZ wold give them enough profile
it wasn;t the time but the cost to to ship their boats and all equipment to NZ
may not have payed off (proven wrong?) but those were some of the reasons for the decisions made
It’s always been like that. There really are only a few teams/yacht clubs that are mainstays in the competition.
Which isn’t a surprise really when you consider that there really is little exposure and competition for the money poured into a campaign.
Take last AC. Team Nz would have spent $100m to sail their boat about 15 times!?
i think thats the point, they couldnt afford to do that again, they want to get back to the days where there were 8- challengers
-
NZ will have to bid like everyone else, they want to shorten the time to the next cup, pre-event regattas might start within 12 months, in the AC 75s
-
i think they had committed to keeping the same class hadn't they? so the cycle should be able to be shorter
-
i think they had committed to keeping the same class hadn't they? so the cycle should be able to be shorter
@Kiwiwomble said in Americas cup:
i think they had committed to keeping the same class hadn't they? so the cycle should be able to be shorter
Yup. So lower costs for those already with a boat. I seem to recall TNZ had standardised many aspects of the class previously, to try to keep costs lower. Not sure if my memory is correct though
-
@Kiwiwomble said in Americas cup:
i think they had committed to keeping the same class hadn't they? so the cycle should be able to be shorter
Yup. So lower costs for those already with a boat. I seem to recall TNZ had standardised many aspects of the class previously, to try to keep costs lower. Not sure if my memory is correct though
-
@canefan sounds familier
you assume there are tweaks they can still make (different foils etc) so teams can keep improving
@Kiwiwomble said in Americas cup:
@canefan sounds familier
you assume there are tweaks they can still make (different foils etc) so teams can keep improving
Yeah. With more regattas, making it more like Sail GP I guess. It's fair to say the AC does not feel like a competitions between nations anymore
-
@DaGrubster said in Americas cup:
@Kiwiwomble said in Americas cup:
@DaGrubster said in Americas cup:
@Kiwiwomble said in Americas cup:
@MajorRage said in Americas cup:
Coming in from a point of no education here, but it does make sense to move it around.
Yes, they've attracted a lot of money, visitors and teams into NZ, but how mucho f that is going to come back 3 years later? The teams will, obviously, but the flotilla of super yachts / fans etc? Hard to tell. NZ is incredibly difficult to get to & if you were there just 3 years ago, would you be in a hurry to get back there so soon?
Kind of like a rugby world cup. If it was held in NZ in 2015 again, would it have been as big of a success as the UK? Or would people be looking at it thinking, long way to go, only went there recently, will skip this.
Looking at the last 4, it's' been Valencia, San Fran, Bermuda, Auckland ... what an awesome set of locations and keeps the vibe alive. If it was NZ again, would that same vibe exists with it being in Barcelona this time?
I have my doubts. Would you rather pop across to Spain for the next one is do the long journey to NZ, again. For basically exactly the same thing.
Bit of a no brainer for me.
some challengers also said they wouldnt come back to NZ, more expensive to get to/set up base and they could get more/better sponsors if held in a European city
All of the same sponsors from Auckland are on board and have been long term partners.
I don’t think they needed a European city for American magic to snare that blue chip sponsor Founders brewery - revenue $348m - pretty small beer (embrace the pun!)
I get that travelling to Nz may take longer - so what.
It’s not a weekly commute.European base hasn’t really helped them with a broadcast deal as it is live on YouTube- with about 15000 watching live.
i was meaning challengers, several interested teams/parties never came to fruition in 2021 because some potential backers didn't think little old NZ wold give them enough profile
it wasn;t the time but the cost to to ship their boats and all equipment to NZ
may not have payed off (proven wrong?) but those were some of the reasons for the decisions made
It’s always been like that. There really are only a few teams/yacht clubs that are mainstays in the competition.
Which isn’t a surprise really when you consider that there really is little exposure and competition for the money poured into a campaign.
Take last AC. Team Nz would have spent $100m to sail their boat about 15 times!?
i think thats the point, they couldnt afford to do that again, they want to get back to the days where there were 8- challengers
@Kiwiwomble said in Americas cup:
i think thats the point, they couldnt afford to do that again, they want to get back to the days where there were 8- challengers
6 apparently.
*"More teams?"
“If you want to be in an event with lots of teams, go with one design,” said Dalton, meaning that wasn’t what the America’s Cup was about.“If we had one more team, that would be good. I don't advocate that you need more than that. It's not that event. This is the top of the food chain in technology.”*
-
Fantastic racing today. Americans still in it. The cool thing is if a boat is way behind with this design they can still win., in previous displacement designs the result would often be a foregone conclusion,
@W32 said in Americas cup:
Fantastic racing today. Americans still in it. The cool thing is if a boat is way behind with this design they can still win., in previous displacement designs the result would often be a foregone conclusion,
How big a problem is the breakage on Luna Rossa?
Is it easily fixed or do they have to fix it and improve it in 24 hours.
-
@W32 said in Americas cup:
Fantastic racing today. Americans still in it. The cool thing is if a boat is way behind with this design they can still win., in previous displacement designs the result would often be a foregone conclusion,
How big a problem is the breakage on Luna Rossa?
Is it easily fixed or do they have to fix it and improve it in 24 hours.
@DaGrubster said in Americas cup:
@W32 said in Americas cup:
Fantastic racing today. Americans still in it. The cool thing is if a boat is way behind with this design they can still win., in previous displacement designs the result would often be a foregone conclusion,
How big a problem is the breakage on Luna Rossa?
Is it easily fixed or do they have to fix it and improve it in 24 hours.
Sounds like the traveller broke. Big question is what else was damaged as the main sheet/traveller is effectively the backstay. They were lucky not to lose the rig
-
Fantastic racing today. Americans still in it. The cool thing is if a boat is way behind with this design they can still win., in previous displacement designs the result would often be a foregone conclusion,
@W32 said in Americas cup:
Fantastic racing today. Americans still in it. The cool thing is if a boat is way behind with this design they can still win., in previous displacement designs the result would often be a foregone conclusion,
i think the thing thats changed for me is previously it was more dependant on conditions...yes there were foregone conclusions but we also saw dead air on parts of the courses and so a trailing team could catch up by seeing what had effected the leading boat and avoid it....these machines are just so fine tuned for wringing every ounce of wind that doesnt seem to be the case or even possible any more
