2024 NZ Schools Rugby
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Most of the scrum penalties will be for collapsing on the engage as you can only push for a maximum of 1.5 m at this level. The starting Barbarians scrum did OK against Aust but when Johnston was on he was penalised a couple of times.
@Bovidae Yes, that penalty against Johnston was fair, he misjudged his height and brought on the collapse. I'd argue that he gained ascendancy in the subsequent scrums, though, mostly because of the aforementioned walking around by the Aussie reserve loosehead.
But technical infringements were mostly let go by the refs in both games, hence the need for aggression and perceived dominance.
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@Bovidae Some interesting decisions. I think Sinton as starting 9 and captain are good choices, but I'm not sure about their seeming intent of keeping the halfback combinations together if it means that Inch doesn't start. I guess we'll see how it goes. Verster, from what I've seen, does seem to be the (marginally) better kicker, though, so maybe that also played a part in their thinking.
The loose forward trio, I'm not sure. Tocker doesn't offer a whole lot apart from his attacking prowess and pace on the wing, and, despite his height, isn't particularly dominant in the lineout either. So I understand that he's on the bench. But, to me, 6. Hutchings, 7. Keith, 8. Saumaki appears more balanced. I suspect Tito wants as many players on the field who can get over the ball, and Keith, Saumaki and Spratley are all very able poachers. It does make sense, as Australia wants to play a possession-based game, using its powerful carriers to move up the field.
The decision that I don't really get is Van Der Heyden on the bench. The Aussie U18 maul defence was a weakness against the Barbarians and in Van Der Heyden you have someone who is incredibly difficult to stop when he's pushing in the middle of the attacking maul. Perhaps they want a shorter tighthead to put pressure on the Aussie loosehead's scrummaging technique.
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The NZ Māori Under 18 Ngā Whatukura Boys and NZ Heartland U20 teams:
The Māori Under 18 Ngā Whatukura lineup looks pretty good. Lots of talented players, both in the forward pack and the backline, so it'll be interesting to see how they gel as a team. I'm looking forward to seeing more of Cruiz Simpson, the little that I saw he looked promising.
I don't know anything about the Heartland U20 team, apart from the fact that Benazzi Ward's parents must be really into their rugby.
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The NZ Māori Under 18 Ngā Whatukura Boys and NZ Heartland U20 teams:
The Māori Under 18 Ngā Whatukura lineup looks pretty good. Lots of talented players, both in the forward pack and the backline, so it'll be interesting to see how they gel as a team. I'm looking forward to seeing more of Cruiz Simpson, the little that I saw he looked promising.
I don't know anything about the Heartland U20 team, apart from the fact that Benazzi Ward's parents must be really into their rugby.
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@Bovidae Some interesting decisions. I think Sinton as starting 9 and captain are good choices, but I'm not sure about their seeming intent of keeping the halfback combinations together if it means that Inch doesn't start. I guess we'll see how it goes. Verster, from what I've seen, does seem to be the (marginally) better kicker, though, so maybe that also played a part in their thinking.
The loose forward trio, I'm not sure. Tocker doesn't offer a whole lot apart from his attacking prowess and pace on the wing, and, despite his height, isn't particularly dominant in the lineout either. So I understand that he's on the bench. But, to me, 6. Hutchings, 7. Keith, 8. Saumaki appears more balanced. I suspect Tito wants as many players on the field who can get over the ball, and Keith, Saumaki and Spratley are all very able poachers. It does make sense, as Australia wants to play a possession-based game, using its powerful carriers to move up the field.
The decision that I don't really get is Van Der Heyden on the bench. The Aussie U18 maul defence was a weakness against the Barbarians and in Van Der Heyden you have someone who is incredibly difficult to stop when he's pushing in the middle of the attacking maul. Perhaps they want a shorter tighthead to put pressure on the Aussie loosehead's scrummaging technique.
@Mauss Tito seems to favour the 8-9-10 combo from the same school. NC in the Samoa game and now the TBC trio. At least there will be some firepower to bring off the bench.
BTW, I re-watched the NZ-Samoa game and agree that Falloon had a better game than I originally thought watching live.
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@Mauss Tito seems to favour the 8-9-10 combo from the same school. NC in the Samoa game and now the TBC trio. At least there will be some firepower to bring off the bench.
BTW, I re-watched the NZ-Samoa game and agree that Falloon had a better game than I originally thought watching live.
@Bovidae I hadn't noticed the 8-9-10 combo thing, good point. It should be interesting to see how Spratley and Saumaki work together, they both strike me as natural number 8s.
Are you going to the games again today? I thought the crowd was already pretty good for a game on Wednesday, but I'd expect a bigger attendance for these games.
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@Bovidae I hadn't noticed the 8-9-10 combo thing, good point. It should be interesting to see how Spratley and Saumaki work together, they both strike me as natural number 8s.
Are you going to the games again today? I thought the crowd was already pretty good for a game on Wednesday, but I'd expect a bigger attendance for these games.
@Mauss said in 2024 NZ Schools Rugby:
Are you going to the games again today? I thought the crowd was already pretty good for a game on Wednesday, but I'd expect a bigger attendance for these games.
Yes, 3 games to watch. The weather forecast is now improving so hopefully a bigger crowd. It's free entry. I'll be further from the field.
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The Australian Team - especially in the forwards - looked stronger & better skilled. Their 16yr old loosehead monstered our tighthead at scrum time towards the end of the 1st half. Skill wise - & again I'm looking at the forwards - we were a long way behind Australia. It would be easy to point the finger at Paul Tito (Coach) but i think it's a wake up call for those involved in First XV Programs around the country. Give the NZ U18s Team a better coached player.
NZs Best - Saumaki Saumaki, Cohen Norrie, Siale Pahulu.
Australia - Kingsley Uys, Heinz Lemoto, Angus Grover, Eli Langi. -
Aus U18s beat NZ Schools by the sounds.
Be interesting to hear the report from @Bovidae
Sounds like a strong crop for the Aussies.
@KiwiMurph said in 2024 NZ Schools Rugby:
Aus U18s beat NZ Schools by the sounds.
Yep, 38-31 to Australia but NZ Schools scored a late try. As @Magic65 said, NZ got outplayed up front as the Aust forwards were more physical and their ball-carriers constantly made ground. The likes of Saumaki were much quieter in this game. I also think that Inch was better than Verster in game management.
Compared to last year, this is a weaker NZ Schools team and lacked the x-factor players like Mathis and Simpson who had such a big influence in the two wins in Aust. The NZ Barbarians U18s would be capable of beating them.
The other results were:
Māori U18s 53 - 24 NZ Heartland U20s (HT: 17-17)
A close 1st half as the scoreline suggests but the Māori ran over them in the 2nd half with plenty of long-range tries. The lack of fitness of some of the Heartland U20 players was noticeable. Probably to be expected given where they play and their limited preparation.NZ Barbarians U18 102 - 10 Samoa U18 (HT: 43 - 7)
The scoreline says it all. Samoa never stopped trying but their limited player pool means they will always struggle. You would find a stronger team from 1A and 1B schools in South Auckland. -
The Australian Team - especially in the forwards - looked stronger & better skilled. Their 16yr old loosehead monstered our tighthead at scrum time towards the end of the 1st half. Skill wise - & again I'm looking at the forwards - we were a long way behind Australia. It would be easy to point the finger at Paul Tito (Coach) but i think it's a wake up call for those involved in First XV Programs around the country. Give the NZ U18s Team a better coached player.
NZs Best - Saumaki Saumaki, Cohen Norrie, Siale Pahulu.
Australia - Kingsley Uys, Heinz Lemoto, Angus Grover, Eli Langi.@Magic65 said in 2024 NZ Schools Rugby:
Eli Langi
This is the kind of player I feel who is often missing in these NZ age grade teams: tall and athletic, but equally with a big engine and physically abrasive. He would make a world of difference to this NZ Schools side.
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@Magic65 said in 2024 NZ Schools Rugby:
Eli Langi
This is the kind of player I feel who is often missing in these NZ age grade teams: tall and athletic, but equally with a big engine and physically abrasive. He would make a world of difference to this NZ Schools side.
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I think a lot of credit also has to go to this Australia U18 side. Their accuracy and organization was impressive, making the NZ Schools execution errors stand out a lot more.
RA seem to have invested considerable resources to a more centralized rugby academy system - development camps, U16 and U19 comps, player of national interest program - so it's good that it's bearing fruit. The Australia U18 side looked like a cohesive and well-drilled team.
At the moment, NZ Rugby are trying to have their cake and eating it too, retaining NZ Schools as the primary side while using the Barbarian U18 team as a pseudo-high development team. It has its merits. But then you're left with two decently strong teams, who are both beaten by the side which has put all of its eggs into the single high-performance basket.
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I think a lot of credit also has to go to this Australia U18 side. Their accuracy and organization was impressive, making the NZ Schools execution errors stand out a lot more.
RA seem to have invested considerable resources to a more centralized rugby academy system - development camps, U16 and U19 comps, player of national interest program - so it's good that it's bearing fruit. The Australia U18 side looked like a cohesive and well-drilled team.
At the moment, NZ Rugby are trying to have their cake and eating it too, retaining NZ Schools as the primary side while using the Barbarian U18 team as a pseudo-high development team. It has its merits. But then you're left with two decently strong teams, who are both beaten by the side which has put all of its eggs into the single high-performance basket.
@Mauss said in 2024 NZ Schools Rugby:
RA seem to have invested considerable resources to a more centralized rugby academy system - development camps, U16 and U19 comps, player of national interest program - so it's good that it's bearing fruit. The Australia U18 side looked like a cohesive and well-drilled team.
Just in time for league to take them back
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@Mauss said in 2024 NZ Schools Rugby:
RA seem to have invested considerable resources to a more centralized rugby academy system - development camps, U16 and U19 comps, player of national interest program - so it's good that it's bearing fruit. The Australia U18 side looked like a cohesive and well-drilled team.
Just in time for league to take them back
@NTA Yeah, that's rough, eh? The only hope is that players enjoy the high-performance environment, so if you have good structures and, subsequently, good results, at the very least they're a bit more likely to stay.
Can't see how they hang on to Lemoto and Makasini, though. They'll be highly sought after.
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@NTA Yeah, that's rough, eh? The only hope is that players enjoy the high-performance environment, so if you have good structures and, subsequently, good results, at the very least they're a bit more likely to stay.
Can't see how they hang on to Lemoto and Makasini, though. They'll be highly sought after.
@Mauss said in 2024 NZ Schools Rugby:
@NTA Yeah, that's rough, eh? The only hope is that players enjoy the high-performance environment, so if you have good structures and, subsequently, good results, at the very least they're a bit more likely to stay.
Can't see how they hang on to Lemoto and Makasini, though. They'll be highly sought after.
A lot of kids in private schools playing at a high level are there on the NRL chequebook.
The old school ties bemoan them "leaving Rugby" but they were never "Rugby" to start with
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@Mauss said in 2024 NZ Schools Rugby:
@NTA Yeah, that's rough, eh? The only hope is that players enjoy the high-performance environment, so if you have good structures and, subsequently, good results, at the very least they're a bit more likely to stay.
Can't see how they hang on to Lemoto and Makasini, though. They'll be highly sought after.
A lot of kids in private schools playing at a high level are there on the NRL chequebook.
The old school ties bemoan them "leaving Rugby" but they were never "Rugby" to start with
@NTA said in 2024 NZ Schools Rugby:
A lot of kids in private schools playing at a high level are there on the NRL chequebook.
Does that make them "league", though? I'm sure a lot of players enjoy both codes while they're at school (Saumaki, Pahulu and Vaega also have ties to league in the NZ Schools team).
RA doesn't have the funds of the NRL. But if they're smart with their targeting of players - like they did with Goldsbrough and Jorgensen - they can get the occassional player. But they have a long way to go, though, and they don't seem to be particularly capable either.
But with a result like today, I think it's fine to give them some plaudits.
