All Blacks XV 2024
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks XV 2024:
Not having a crack at you in the slightest. But there's quite a few in Blues land who have been well over the top.
That's fair but on the flip side I think there is genuine discussion to be had around the loose forwards
The loose forwards selection on paper seemed unbalanced, has performed poor to middling and yet no changes at all in that group have occurred across 3 squads (with the exception of the departing Sam Cane coming in once up to speed).
Meanwhile the best performing loose forward trio in Super has one player who has been tried and now can't make a 23, and the other two can't make the AB squad (one of whom would not be departing offshore if the selectors had interest in him). Throw in that this coaching setup is chasing Frizell to be in the squad next year.....
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks XV 2024:
Meanwhile the best performing loose forward trio in Super has one player who has been tried and now can't make a 23, and the other two can't make the AB squad (one of whom would not be departing offshore if the selectors had interest in him). Throw in that this coaching setup is chasing Frizell to be in the squad next year.....
Yeah - but, is that unusual?
Last year the Crusaders won Super rugby for the 7th consecutive season and they had no loose forwards in the initial RWC squad. Blackadder got a late call up and played a minnow game or two.
Paps has been fighting Cane - who's been 1st choice for the past 5 years. I find it a little bit odd they've stuck with Sam given he's leaving, but presumably he's giving them things they think Paps isn't. One thing it's certainly not evidence of is Crusaders' bias.
Razor said his closest call was between Sotutu and Sititi and much of the past week has been veiled insinuations that he'll be shown to be a lying fuck. The jury is in and it's found in favour of Razor.
On Akira, there's been a lot of hypothetical conversations posited about what was said between him and Razor. I have no idea and I occasionally suspect some posters of being Akira (or his Mum), so if they actually know something they should come out and say it.
But the selection patterns do not say that Ryan had no interest in him.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks XV 2024:
Meanwhile the best performing loose forward trio in Super has one player who has been tried and now can't make a 23, and the other two can't make the AB squad (one of whom would not be departing offshore if the selectors had interest in him). Throw in that this coaching setup is chasing Frizell to be in the squad next year.....
Yeah - but, is that unusual?
Last year the Crusaders won Super rugby for the 7th consecutive season and they had no loose forwards in the initial RWC squad. Blackadder got a late call up and played a minnow game or two.
Paps has been fighting Cane - who's been 1st choice for the past 5 years. I find it a little bit odd they've stuck with Sam given he's leaving, but presumably he's giving them things they think Paps isn't. One thing it's certainly not evidence of is Crusaders' bias.
Razor said his closest call was between Sotutu and Sititi and much of the past week has been veiled insinuations that he'll be shown to be a lying fuck. The jury is in and it's found in favour of Razor.
On Akira, there's been a lot of hypothetical conversations posited about what was said between him and Razor. I have no idea and I occasionally suspect some posters of being Akira (or his Mum), so if they actually know something they should come out and say it.
But the selection patterns do not say that Ryan had no interest in him.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks XV 2024:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks XV 2024:
Meanwhile the best performing loose forward trio in Super has one player who has been tried and now can't make a 23, and the other two can't make the AB squad (one of whom would not be departing offshore if the selectors had interest in him). Throw in that this coaching setup is chasing Frizell to be in the squad next year.....
Yeah - but, is that unusual?
Last year the Crusaders won Super rugby for the 7th consecutive season and they had no loose forwards in the initial RWC squad. Blackadder got a late call up and played a minnow game or two.
Paps has been fighting Cane - who's been 1st choice for the past 5 years. I find it a little bit odd they've stuck with Sam given he's leaving, but presumably he's giving them things they think Paps isn't. One thing it's certainly not evidence of is Crusaders' bias.
Razor said his closest call was between Sotutu and Sititi and much of the past week has been veiled insinuations that he'll be shown to be a lying fuck. The jury is in and it's found in favour of Razor.
On Akira, there's been a lot of hypothetical conversations posited about what was said between him and Razor. I have no idea and I occasionally suspect some posters of being Akira (or his Mum), so if they actually know something they should come out and say it.
But the selection patterns do not say that Ryan had no interest in him.
We are going around in circles here so I don't want to clog up the thread but just a few comments in response.
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it's not exactly apples to apples to compare a RWC year with limited build-up and the first year of a new cycle. Heck in the RWC squad because of the weird selection decision there was only 5 loosies picked at all.
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the oddness of Papalii completely falling out of favour is exactly what I'm talking about
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as I said earlier in the thread I was pleased to see form players being picked. It will be interesting what gametime Sotutu gets for the AB XV and where (given Razor's fondness for position utility would they try him at 6 or is he the starting 8 etc) - that may point to how in the frame Sotutu is
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I don't see Ryan clamouring for Akira to return the way he has for Frizell.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks XV 2024:
Meanwhile the best performing loose forward trio in Super has one player who has been tried and now can't make a 23, and the other two can't make the AB squad (one of whom would not be departing offshore if the selectors had interest in him). Throw in that this coaching setup is chasing Frizell to be in the squad next year.....
Yeah - but, is that unusual?
Last year the Crusaders won Super rugby for the 7th consecutive season and they had no loose forwards in the initial RWC squad. Blackadder got a late call up and played a minnow game or two.
Paps has been fighting Cane - who's been 1st choice for the past 5 years. I find it a little bit odd they've stuck with Sam given he's leaving, but presumably he's giving them things they think Paps isn't. One thing it's certainly not evidence of is Crusaders' bias.
Razor said his closest call was between Sotutu and Sititi and much of the past week has been veiled insinuations that he'll be shown to be a lying fuck. The jury is in and it's found in favour of Razor.
On Akira, there's been a lot of hypothetical conversations posited about what was said between him and Razor. I have no idea and I occasionally suspect some posters of being Akira (or his Mum), so if they actually know something they should come out and say it.
But the selection patterns do not say that Ryan had no interest in him.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks XV 2024:
Razor said his closest call was between Sotutu and Sititi and much of the past week has been veiled insinuations that he'll be shown to be a lying fuck. The jury is in and it's found in favour of Razor.
On Akira, there's been a lot of hypothetical conversations posited about what was said between him and Razor. I have no idea and I occasionally suspect some posters of being Akira (or his Mum), so if they actually know something they should come out and say it.
But the selection patterns do not say that Ryan had no interest in him.
I feel I'm being gaslit.
What evidence do we have fatty Ryan had any interest in the form blindside flanker of Super Rugby?
If Razor is selecting the AB XV, then he's lumped Sotutu with the likes of McAlister, Ah Kuoi, Kirifi, Lio-Willie, McLeod, Fihaki and Stevenson...
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks XV 2024:
Meanwhile the best performing loose forward trio in Super has one player who has been tried and now can't make a 23, and the other two can't make the AB squad (one of whom would not be departing offshore if the selectors had interest in him). Throw in that this coaching setup is chasing Frizell to be in the squad next year.....
Yeah - but, is that unusual?
Last year the Crusaders won Super rugby for the 7th consecutive season and they had no loose forwards in the initial RWC squad. Blackadder got a late call up and played a minnow game or two.
Paps has been fighting Cane - who's been 1st choice for the past 5 years. I find it a little bit odd they've stuck with Sam given he's leaving, but presumably he's giving them things they think Paps isn't. One thing it's certainly not evidence of is Crusaders' bias.
Razor said his closest call was between Sotutu and Sititi and much of the past week has been veiled insinuations that he'll be shown to be a lying fuck. The jury is in and it's found in favour of Razor.
On Akira, there's been a lot of hypothetical conversations posited about what was said between him and Razor. I have no idea and I occasionally suspect some posters of being Akira (or his Mum), so if they actually know something they should come out and say it.
But the selection patterns do not say that Ryan had no interest in him.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks XV 2024:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks XV 2024:
Meanwhile the best performing loose forward trio in Super has one player who has been tried and now can't make a 23, and the other two can't make the AB squad (one of whom would not be departing offshore if the selectors had interest in him). Throw in that this coaching setup is chasing Frizell to be in the squad next year.....
Yeah - but, is that unusual?
To use your words, a little bit odd indeed.
Last year the Crusaders won Super rugby for the 7th consecutive season and they had no loose forwards in the initial RWC squad. Blackadder got a late call up and played a minnow game or two.
Because the Crusader loosies weren't the best of the best. And they weren't winning the super for 7 years, for much of that Read and someone called McCaw were playing. Nice try, no cigar. This year Sotutu and Ioane were form loose forwards and won the championship and got narry a tadpole.
Paps has been fighting Cane - who's been 1st choice for the past 5 years. I find it a little bit odd they've stuck with Sam given he's leaving, but presumably he's giving them things they think Paps isn't. One thing it's certainly not evidence of is Crusaders' bias.
David Havili says hi.
From a hospital bed and a red n black dripfeed, Blackadder attempts to say hi.
Fihaki gives a big big wave.Razor said his closest call was between Sotutu and Sititi and much of the past week has been veiled insinuations that he'll be shown to be a lying fuck. The jury is in and it's found in favour of Razor.
But it was really between Savea and Sotutu because they played Sititi at 6.
On Akira, there's been a lot of hypothetical conversations posited about what was said between him and Razor. I have no idea and I occasionally suspect some posters of being Akira (or his Mum), so if they actually know something they should come out and say it.
His mum was a Black Fern so too knowledgeable to be a poster here.
But the selection patterns do not say that Ryan had no interest in him.
Patterns? You see patterns?
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks XV 2024:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks XV 2024:
Meanwhile the best performing loose forward trio in Super has one player who has been tried and now can't make a 23, and the other two can't make the AB squad (one of whom would not be departing offshore if the selectors had interest in him). Throw in that this coaching setup is chasing Frizell to be in the squad next year.....
Yeah - but, is that unusual?
To use your words, a little bit odd indeed.
Last year the Crusaders won Super rugby for the 7th consecutive season and they had no loose forwards in the initial RWC squad. Blackadder got a late call up and played a minnow game or two.
Because the Crusader loosies weren't the best of the best. And they weren't winning the super for 7 years, for much of that Read and someone called McCaw were playing. Nice try, no cigar. This year Sotutu and Ioane were form loose forwards and won the championship and got narry a tadpole.
Paps has been fighting Cane - who's been 1st choice for the past 5 years. I find it a little bit odd they've stuck with Sam given he's leaving, but presumably he's giving them things they think Paps isn't. One thing it's certainly not evidence of is Crusaders' bias.
David Havili says hi.
From a hospital bed and a red n black dripfeed, Blackadder attempts to say hi.
Fihaki gives a big big wave.Razor said his closest call was between Sotutu and Sititi and much of the past week has been veiled insinuations that he'll be shown to be a lying fuck. The jury is in and it's found in favour of Razor.
But it was really between Savea and Sotutu because they played Sititi at 6.
On Akira, there's been a lot of hypothetical conversations posited about what was said between him and Razor. I have no idea and I occasionally suspect some posters of being Akira (or his Mum), so if they actually know something they should come out and say it.
His mum was a Black Fern so too knowledgeable to be a poster here.
But the selection patterns do not say that Ryan had no interest in him.
Patterns? You see patterns?
@nostrildamus McCaw retired in 2015…. Robertson never coached him
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@nostrildamus McCaw retired in 2015…. Robertson never coached him
@KiwiInLondon said in All Blacks XV 2024:
@nostrildamus McCaw retired in 2015…. Robertson never coached him
Ok true but my essential point is those last few years of Crusaders victories weren't based solely on their loosies, good, but not class-leading.
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There is definite bias-bias on this forum. Accusations of bias for Crusaders from a mentality of bias against the Crusaders.
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@KiwiInLondon said in All Blacks XV 2024:
@nostrildamus McCaw retired in 2015…. Robertson never coached him
Ok true but my essential point is those last few years of Crusaders victories weren't based solely on their loosies, good, but not class-leading.
@nostrildamus the forward pack was exceptional and the loose forwards were apart of that. You can discredit Razors crusaders. Players like Grace and Christie regularly outshone their opponents and didn’t get a look in, plus that included two finals wins against the lions and one against jaguars.
Those blues forwards stepped up when the opposition was weakest. It means very very little
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@nostrildamus the forward pack was exceptional and the loose forwards were apart of that. You can discredit Razors crusaders. Players like Grace and Christie regularly outshone their opponents and didn’t get a look in, plus that included two finals wins against the lions and one against jaguars.
Those blues forwards stepped up when the opposition was weakest. It means very very little
@KiwiInLondon said in All Blacks XV 2024:
@nostrildamus the forward pack was exceptional and the loose forwards were apart of that. You can discredit Razors crusaders. Players like Grace and Christie regularly outshone their opponents and didn’t get a look in, plus that included two finals wins against the lions and one against jaguars.
Those blues forwards stepped up when the opposition was weakest. It means very very little
So you've just confirmed that it only counts when the Crusaders do well, Interesting take.
Maybe the Blues pack benefitted from having a better coach this year? Maybe Cotter just knew how to get the best out of the Blues pack, where even journeymen like Renata and Riccitelli stepped up their game? Maybe MacDonald and Coventry couldn't quite get these Blues players to the next level?
Credit where it's due, Robertson did a great job with Christie and Grace, especially the very limited Christie they were horrendous this year however, without him. Lio Willie and Blackadder were far better when they eventually took the field.
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@KiwiInLondon said in All Blacks XV 2024:
@nostrildamus the forward pack was exceptional and the loose forwards were apart of that. You can discredit Razors crusaders. Players like Grace and Christie regularly outshone their opponents and didn’t get a look in, plus that included two finals wins against the lions and one against jaguars.
Those blues forwards stepped up when the opposition was weakest. It means very very little
So you've just confirmed that it only counts when the Crusaders do well, Interesting take.
Maybe the Blues pack benefitted from having a better coach this year? Maybe Cotter just knew how to get the best out of the Blues pack, where even journeymen like Renata and Riccitelli stepped up their game? Maybe MacDonald and Coventry couldn't quite get these Blues players to the next level?
Credit where it's due, Robertson did a great job with Christie and Grace, especially the very limited Christie they were horrendous this year however, without him. Lio Willie and Blackadder were far better when they eventually took the field.
@African-Monkey it’s different because it was seven years in a row, three times of those against South African opposition. Once against the one of the weaker comps in a long long time matters little. That’s the difference.
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So if Sotutu takes the field, that locks him into NZ for 4 years right?
That will put to bed the playing for England nonsense I hope.@Darren said in All Blacks XV 2024:
So if Sotutu takes the field, that locks him into NZ for 4 years right?
That will put to bed the playing for England nonsense I hope.Only if he takes the field for the All Blacks. The ABs XV aren't a capture team.
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It's interesting the number of Crusaders who haven't been picked for either team.
If Razor and co were truly biased then it would've made sense to see guys like Finlay Brewis, Dom Gardiner, Zach Gallagher, Jamie Hannah, Cullen Grace, Rivez Reihana, Levi Aumua and Macca Springer in the XV.
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@African-Monkey it’s different because it was seven years in a row, three times of those against South African opposition. Once against the one of the weaker comps in a long long time matters little. That’s the difference.
@KiwiInLondon said in All Blacks XV 2024:
@African-Monkey it’s different because it was seven years in a row, three times of those against South African opposition. Once against the one of the weaker comps in a long long time matters little. That’s the difference.
For the first 3 years, the Crusaders virtually had an AB pack playing Super Rugby lets not kid ourselves here.
So by your logic, 2020-2023 was also weak because there were no South African teams involved?
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@pakman said in All Blacks XV 2024:
@Bovidae Ta! Looks like part of longer interview?
Yes, but the full interview doesn't appear to be available yet. Here's some more talking about Jacomb.
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@KiwiInLondon said in All Blacks XV 2024:
@African-Monkey it’s different because it was seven years in a row, three times of those against South African opposition. Once against the one of the weaker comps in a long long time matters little. That’s the difference.
For the first 3 years, the Crusaders virtually had an AB pack playing Super Rugby lets not kid ourselves here.
So by your logic, 2020-2023 was also weak because there were no South African teams involved?
@African-Monkey don't feed the troll
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@pakman said in All Blacks XV 2024:
@Bovidae Ta! Looks like part of longer interview?
Yes, but the full interview doesn't appear to be available yet. Here's some more talking about Jacomb.
@Bovidae said in All Blacks XV 2024:
@pakman said in All Blacks XV 2024:
@Bovidae Ta! Looks like part of longer interview?
Yes, but the full interview doesn't appear to be available yet. Here's some more talking about Jacomb.
I stoked about Jacomb, because not only a Naki boy, but I been saying he got the makings of being a test 10 for last couple of years , looks so balanced to me.
Also I been on the Holland bandwagon for about 3-4 years now, the most natural made player for test lock I have seen, I reckoned it when I first saw him play, and nothing has ever changed my mind. I reckon him and Lord (who seems to of put on some required weight) look the frist choice locks.
Ok I have got on the bandwagon for Segner too, but maybe I wrong there , but I am stoked a couple of really good uns are seeing the light of day! -
Jacombs a good player - need to get him some more game time at Super level to help his development.
Better than Cameron and the Crusaders options though Reihana is an untapped talent.
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Jacombs a good player - need to get him some more game time at Super level to help his development.
Better than Cameron and the Crusaders options though Reihana is an untapped talent.
@brodean from what I heard, Reihana came back from the Crusaders lacking any confidence, but he did build into the season as it wore on.
But he needs to secure the starting 10 berth at the Crusaders and go from there, has the skills, whether he has the top 2 inches is another matter.
