All Blacks vs Pumas I
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Well, match report from the glorious Tron.
Great roadie with the lads, the good news is that no-one got arrested, mugged, knifed or in a fight. Weather sensational, and the rugby in the first half matched it.
Some general thoughts, in no particular order:
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That first half was some of the best ,most competitive rugby I've seen in NZ for some consdierable time. Argies played smart, disciplined aggressive running rugby and took it to the ABs. Huge commitment, married to rugby nous. Earned a well deserved lead, exploited match ups and scored a couple of very smart tries. Well done. Showed what you need to do to beat the ABs. Their challenge was always to push that past a half of rugby, and stay in the match.
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Savea J went blooyd well. Looked really sharp and engaged from the get-go, ran hard and busted some tackles, showed pace and looked like he used to! More of this please! May only have grabbed one, but sure has heck set people up.
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Joubert is not what he was. NOt a terrible ref, but nowhere near the level he used to be. Let a lot of people steal off their feet (based on my limited view at the ground), and weirdly allowed a lot of people to get up and go again. That one bugs the hell out of me... when you get tackled, the tackler releeases and the ref allows people to stand up and run. Grrr.
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Waikato Stadium is a great wee place. So close to teh action compared to the bigger ones around the country, good fun.
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Dagg can kick! That kick was into a gentle breeze, I didn't think he'd get close. Guess I don't know his range as well as he does, but well done.
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BB can also kick well, but it is a work on for sure. Could cost us games in the future.
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Ben From Accounts just turned that Argie defender into knots. Just a wonderful player, and a privelege to see him playing like he is at the moment.
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Sam Cane. I have seen a bit of Cane at Test level recently. He is a much maligned player, not super flashy, but by god he smacks people hard. Put in some monster hits, stole some good ball and linked well. I can see what he brings to the table, and it is a complete package. Hopefully the injury not too bad (people at the ground were reporting Achilles, but it sounds like Hamstring).
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Lineout fell apart at times. This better be a blip
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Scrum went very well against a good pack.
all in all, a bloody good and high quality game of footy. Pumas stayed in it all game, but came out of the sheds for the second half with poor passing and lacking a bit of cohesion. They improved, but that twenty after the break was bad for them. Thoroughly enjoyable all round
*@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Pumas I:
Well, match report from the glorious Tron.
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Thoroughly enjoyable all round*That was a pretty good summary nzzp, yeah.
I don't suppose you had breakfast, afternoon tea and scones or elevenses with anyone notable? Expectations have been raised following Wellington and readers are now longing for that sort of intimacy.
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*@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Pumas I:
Well, match report from the glorious Tron.
...
Thoroughly enjoyable all round*That was a pretty good summary nzzp, yeah.
I don't suppose you had breakfast, afternoon tea and scones or elevenses with anyone notable? Expectations have been raised following Wellington and readers are now longing for that sort of intimacy.
@Mick-Gold-Coast-QLD said in All Blacks vs Pumas I:
I don't suppose you had breakfast, afternoon tea and scones or elevenses with anyone notable? Expectations have been raised following Wellington and readers are now longing for that sort of intimacy.
Funny you should mention that; had lunch, afternoon tea, dinner and supper with my good friends Steinlager. You may have heard of him
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57 to 22. While it was close in the first half, in the end it was again a big win for the ABs. Is it fitness? Is it depth? It's an 80 minutes game, but most teams can't give strong opposition for more than 60.
@Stargazer It is a confidence thing, not meaning to sound arrogant but never felt worried or that the ABs might lose even at 24-22. forty three wins at home on the bounce not by accident.
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I still feel privileged to say that I was there the last time the ABs lost at home. Was amusing to see S Donald after the match talking about Crotty at 12 when the last time the ABs lost at home, Donald was at 12 and played like a steaming pile of poop.
Sad to see Sam hobble off - I thought he was starting to look Richie like with this play, into everything and generally causing carnage along with Kaino (whose engine is remarkable, still slamming into everyone late in the game). Ardie showed what he can do when he came on, let's see how he grabs his chance now - pretty confident he will be more than ready.
The Argie attack was sensational in that first half, really inventive and relentless - tough to keep that up for 80 minutes and it only really works if you're going forwards as well as sideways - they started to just go wide later on and were just becoming targets for the AB tacklers.
The ABs really do have 2 remarkable players in BB and Ben from Accounts. Both of them can turn a game and create something when the defence looks set. Lucky to have them.
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I had a feeling they'd ramp it up a notch when they finally got their hands on the ball. Barrett is doing superhuman shit right now. Fark it, I'm calling it. Injury free he's potentially better than Carter.
@Rancid-Schnitzel Nope. Those early misses by Barrett might have been really costly in different circumstances. You sad potential, fair enough. Barrett's speed is unreal and vision with ball in hand fantastic (as was Carter in his pomp), Carter's defence, placekicking, passing and running game (in his prime) second to none. World points scoring record and clutch droppie in WC final. Carter is the greatest of all time.
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One position that could be discussed is LH.
I have to say Moody has been a bit underwhelming.
@Billy-Tell yes I think Wyatt may be superior.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel Nope. Those early misses by Barrett might have been really costly in different circumstances. You sad potential, fair enough. Barrett's speed is unreal and vision with ball in hand fantastic (as was Carter in his pomp), Carter's defence, placekicking, passing and running game (in his prime) second to none. World points scoring record and clutch droppie in WC final. Carter is the greatest of all time.
@GM1 said in All Blacks vs Pumas I:
@Rancid-Schnitzel Nope. Those early misses by Barrett might have been really costly in different circumstances. You sad potential, fair enough. Barrett's speed is unreal and vision with ball in hand fantastic (as was Carter in his pomp), Carter's defence, placekicking, passing and running game (in his prime) second to none. World points scoring record and clutch droppie in WC final. Carter is the greatest of all time.
Nope what? Nope he doesn't have the potential?
I never said he was better than Carter now and in my next post I said Carter was GOAT10 by a long way. -
I was at Olims Hotel watching this with some mates and at about ~50mins in I said that Argentina was looking superb and could be in with a shot if they kept playing like they were. A mate laughed at me and said: "No. The result is a foregone conclusion. All Blacks will win, they don't lose anymore."
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@GM1 said in All Blacks vs Pumas I:
@Rancid-Schnitzel Nope. Those early misses by Barrett might have been really costly in different circumstances. You sad potential, fair enough. Barrett's speed is unreal and vision with ball in hand fantastic (as was Carter in his pomp), Carter's defence, placekicking, passing and running game (in his prime) second to none. World points scoring record and clutch droppie in WC final. Carter is the greatest of all time.
Nope what? Nope he doesn't have the potential?
I never said he was better than Carter now and in my next post I said Carter was GOAT10 by a long way.@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Pumas I:
@GM1 said in All Blacks vs Pumas I:
@Rancid-Schnitzel Nope. Those early misses by Barrett might have been really costly in different circumstances. You sad potential, fair enough. Barrett's speed is unreal and vision with ball in hand fantastic (as was Carter in his pomp), Carter's defence, placekicking, passing and running game (in his prime) second to none. World points scoring record and clutch droppie in WC final. Carter is the greatest of all time.
Nope what? Nope he doesn't have the potential?
I never said he was better than Carter now and in my next post I said Carter was GOAT10 by a long way.Yeah sorry i read your other post after that. Yes he does have the potential and he’s the best 10 in the world. He has x factor in spades.
The abs have been winning so easily (in no small part to BB) that he’s not yet been called on to take the serious pressure kicks that win and lose games. It will be interesting to see where he is a year from now once other coaches and players have had a better look at him. Knowing what he can do being able to stop him is not the same thing of course. Eventually he will lose some of that speed and will need those other elements to have a long career and be a true great and rise above the likes of Spencer, Mehrts, Fox, Larkham, Botha, Potra, Wilco etc let alone DC.
Different eras obviously and (for example) Fox’s metronomic goal kicking and territorial game were enormous assets back then with attack and defensive from a first five not so important -while the running and distribution skills BB brings add a lot to the overall game plan right now .
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Given the recent retirements , we are in unbelievable good shape ,
The 4 year block from now to the next WC is going to be good fun .
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yeah kaino will be a loss , but we have great depth in loosies , particularly when you consider the guys that missed selection, Luatua, Shields , Ioane , taufua
Shag will have a plan in place -
Kaino - much like Nonu and Conrad Smith and even McCaw to an extent, while a phenomenal player his core skills and duties are teachable. Yes, there is going to be a drop off and defensive lapses etc etc. But basically if you can replace Kaino and those other guys with someone who is an above average tackler, has above average technique at the breakdown and general ball playing skills you don't miss a beat. A lot of it is training and development and I have no concern in our ability to turn out loose forwards, midfielders etc. Some will be world class, some suitcases in the Messam/Thorne mold, some will be the greatest ever - but all in all they will do the job.
The worries, which are a long way down the track are the hard to find players. Having the two best locks in the world simultaneously is like having a wrist spinning leg spinner. You can't teach it. It's rare as hens teeth and devastating - it truly raises the ceiling for our game. So Rettallick and Whitelock for me are the hardest to replace. A Patty T, Luke Romano combo while not outstanding really changes how this team plays IMO.
After that turning up a 10 with the right combination of vision, temperament and the ability to defend seems to allude most nations. We kind of dealt with it during the Donald years too. Firm believer that 10 is a "natural" position - every AB 10 worth much has been on the radar by 21-22 if not already well into their career. We've been lucky to turn up Carter then Cruden (eventually), now Barrett. Taylor probably could have gone that way too. But you just look at the struggles Aussie are having, or that SA have had with one dimensional 10s and that could be us if we have a few bad crops of players. Even the Spencer/Mehrts years were a struggle at times given their respective limitations.
Decent halfback who can clear and a hooker who can throw straight while doing something around the park follow closely behind.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Pumas I:
@GM1 said in All Blacks vs Pumas I:
@Rancid-Schnitzel Nope. Those early misses by Barrett might have been really costly in different circumstances. You sad potential, fair enough. Barrett's speed is unreal and vision with ball in hand fantastic (as was Carter in his pomp), Carter's defence, placekicking, passing and running game (in his prime) second to none. World points scoring record and clutch droppie in WC final. Carter is the greatest of all time.
Nope what? Nope he doesn't have the potential?
I never said he was better than Carter now and in my next post I said Carter was GOAT10 by a long way.Yeah sorry i read your other post after that. Yes he does have the potential and he’s the best 10 in the world. He has x factor in spades.
The abs have been winning so easily (in no small part to BB) that he’s not yet been called on to take the serious pressure kicks that win and lose games. It will be interesting to see where he is a year from now once other coaches and players have had a better look at him. Knowing what he can do being able to stop him is not the same thing of course. Eventually he will lose some of that speed and will need those other elements to have a long career and be a true great and rise above the likes of Spencer, Mehrts, Fox, Larkham, Botha, Potra, Wilco etc let alone DC.
Different eras obviously and (for example) Fox’s metronomic goal kicking and territorial game were enormous assets back then with attack and defensive from a first five not so important -while the running and distribution skills BB brings add a lot to the overall game plan right now .
@GM1 said in All Blacks vs Pumas I:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Pumas I:
@GM1 said in All Blacks vs Pumas I:
@Rancid-Schnitzel Nope. Those early misses by Barrett might have been really costly in different circumstances. You sad potential, fair enough. Barrett's speed is unreal and vision with ball in hand fantastic (as was Carter in his pomp), Carter's defence, placekicking, passing and running game (in his prime) second to none. World points scoring record and clutch droppie in WC final. Carter is the greatest of all time.
Nope what? Nope he doesn't have the potential?
I never said he was better than Carter now and in my next post I said Carter was GOAT10 by a long way.Yeah sorry i read your other post after that. Yes he does have the potential and he’s the best 10 in the world. He has x factor in spades.
The abs have been winning so easily (in no small part to BB) that he’s not yet been called on to take the serious pressure kicks that win and lose games. It will be interesting to see where he is a year from now once other coaches and players have had a better look at him. Knowing what he can do being able to stop him is not the same thing of course. Eventually he will lose some of that speed and will need those other elements to have a long career and be a true great and rise above the likes of Spencer, Mehrts, Fox, Larkham, Botha, Potra, Wilco etc let alone DC.
Different eras obviously and (for example) Fox’s metronomic goal kicking and territorial game were enormous assets back then with attack and defensive from a first five not so important -while the running and distribution skills BB brings add a lot to the overall game plan right now .
I'd love to know BBs 40 metre and 100 metres times. As an almost gawky looking relatively slight white guy he just doesn't look anywhere near as fast as he actually is if that makes sense. Different position of course but Cullen lost his ability in a really short space of time when that pace went ( well "went" is a harsh way of putting it but fact is he lost that crucial acceleration which could see him attack so brilliantly or alternatively motor out of trouble )
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Crockett will also be past 35, but Read will be about to be 34 and, more pertinent, BFA 33 -- old for a back.
@pakman said in All Blacks vs Pumas I:
Crockett will also be past 35, but Read will be about to be 34 and, more pertinent, BFA 33 -- old for a back.
BFA should be ok. His best skill is ability to beat a man one on one. Doesn't do it via pace or by a massive step, he's jsut an elusive runner. So I don't think age should affect his game too much.
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Ben From Accounts
