All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham
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Biggest worry to me for the next few weeks is the rushed defence of our opponents and the inability of our tens to cope to being given no space and then the terrible defensive re-alignment when they fuck up. What we saw against Argentina at Wellington could very easily be repeated.
@sparky said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
Biggest worry to me for the next few weeks is the rushed defence of our opponents and the inability of our tens to cope to being given no space and then the terrible defensive re-alignment when they fuck up. What we saw against Argentina at Wellington could very easily be repeated.
Nah, as long as they pick McKenzie. He's already shown far more against a rush than Mounga or Barrett. One of the few good things this year has been the first positive signs against the rush in years.
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@mariner4life
Agree with the imbalanced back row but he simply hasn't earned a start yet. Putting in goodish work against Japan is not enough considering he's been tried once already. Its fuckin unfair on the harder working players that he swans into the starting 15.Giving him decent minutes off the bench should be his path perhaps with Savea going to 7 and Sititi to 8.
If he starts monstering opposing forwards and ups his workrate a tad then he starts at 6, then Sititi goes to 8 and Savea can fuck off to the bench where he belongs.
Then it's a two horse race between Papalii and Lakai for the 7 shirt once Cane buggers off.
@Frank said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@mariner4life
Agree with the imbalanced back row but he simply hasn't earned a start yet. Putting in goodish work against Japan is not enough considering he's been tried once already. Its fuckin unfair on the harder working players that he swans into the starting 15.Giving him decent minutes off the bench should be his path perhaps with Savea going to 7 and Sititi to 8.
If he starts monstering opposing forwards and ups his workrate a tad then he starts at 6, then Sititi goes to 8 and Savea can fuck off to the bench where he belongs.
He literally just monstered opposition forwards and upped his workrate, so by your own criteria he's in?
Hard working is not sufficient to make the AB team ahead of better players.
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@African-Monkey said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@Bones said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
I find it pretty weird that people that dislike Finau cite his ability to smash a first five as a bad thing.
How the fuck does that logic work?
How is it better to watch Blackadder get fucking trampled by one of the smallest backs on the field?
Exactly, and by doing that, it makes the 10s think twice about taking the line on. I really do hope he gets a proper opportunity somewhere down the line. He's a genuine talent.
And yeah, us Blackadder critics mave made our point on his ineffective workrate over and over again.
Being wrong about something over and over again isn't something to brag about mate...
Totally agree on Finau though - since when is hammering the opposition 10 a negative? It has always been one of the best ways to disrupt an opposition team's game plan.@reprobate said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@Bones said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
I find it pretty weird that people that dislike Finau cite his ability to smash a first five as a bad thing.
How the fuck does that logic work?
How is it better to watch Blackadder get fucking trampled by one of the smallest backs on the field?
Exactly, and by doing that, it makes the 10s think twice about taking the line on. I really do hope he gets a proper opportunity somewhere down the line. He's a genuine talent.
And yeah, us Blackadder critics mave made our point on his ineffective workrate over and over again.
Being wrong about something over and over again isn't something to brag about mate...
Totally agree on Finau though - since when is hammering the opposition 10 a negative? It has always been one of the best ways to disrupt an opposition team's game plan.We'll agree to disagree on Blackadder.
I do think a loose trio of Finau, Sititi and Lakai has the potential to be something special as well. We probably won't see it for a while and am not holding my breath, but there's a world class trio there if bought along correctly.
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@Jet Yeah, some genius decided the All Blacks must have a "League-style 10" and made that the great shibboleth of New Zealand Rugby, when a 10, who can catch, pass, kick, tackle and above all make the correct decisions under pressure, is what we really need.
@sparky said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@Jet Yeah, some genius decided the All Blacks must have a "League-style 10" and made that the great shibboleth of New Zealand Rugby, when a 10, who can catch, pass, kick, tackle and above all make the correct decisions under pressure, is what we really need.
As I've said before, it's the hangover from the Dan Carter era. Too much focus on the spectacular part of his game and not enough on the fact that DC did all the fundamentals of 10 play exceptionally well
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@reprobate said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@Bones said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
I find it pretty weird that people that dislike Finau cite his ability to smash a first five as a bad thing.
How the fuck does that logic work?
How is it better to watch Blackadder get fucking trampled by one of the smallest backs on the field?
Exactly, and by doing that, it makes the 10s think twice about taking the line on. I really do hope he gets a proper opportunity somewhere down the line. He's a genuine talent.
And yeah, us Blackadder critics mave made our point on his ineffective workrate over and over again.
Being wrong about something over and over again isn't something to brag about mate...
Totally agree on Finau though - since when is hammering the opposition 10 a negative? It has always been one of the best ways to disrupt an opposition team's game plan.We'll agree to disagree on Blackadder.
I do think a loose trio of Finau, Sititi and Lakai has the potential to be something special as well. We probably won't see it for a while and am not holding my breath, but there's a world class trio there if bought along correctly.
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@reprobate said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@Bones said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
I find it pretty weird that people that dislike Finau cite his ability to smash a first five as a bad thing.
How the fuck does that logic work?
How is it better to watch Blackadder get fucking trampled by one of the smallest backs on the field?
Exactly, and by doing that, it makes the 10s think twice about taking the line on. I really do hope he gets a proper opportunity somewhere down the line. He's a genuine talent.
And yeah, us Blackadder critics mave made our point on his ineffective workrate over and over again.
Being wrong about something over and over again isn't something to brag about mate...
Totally agree on Finau though - since when is hammering the opposition 10 a negative? It has always been one of the best ways to disrupt an opposition team's game plan.We'll agree to disagree on Blackadder.
I do think a loose trio of Finau, Sititi and Lakai has the potential to be something special as well. We probably won't see it for a while and am not holding my breath, but there's a world class trio there if bought along correctly.
I'm a big Razor fan.
I am disappointed that we haven't tried out these combinations throughout the year.
A real opportunity to give competing players say 40 minutes each in a game. A 10 minute cameo at the end of a game is a waste of time. -
We still don't really know if Tosi, Lakai, Proctor, Finau and Love can make a difference versus the top sides.
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@booboo I wasn't going to think about the bench until the injury situation became a bit clearer and we knew who was travelling to Europe.
But I guess the bench Vs England will be something like this:
Aumua, Williams, Tosi, Tuipolutu, Finau, Roigard, DMac, ALB.
@sparky said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
But I guess the bench Vs England will be something like this:
Aumua, Williams, Tosi, Tuipolutu, Finau, Roigard, DMac, ALB.
I think your team and bench will be pretty close.
I'm inclined to think they might have pulled Reece early vs Japan because they plan to play him vs England.
Pretty certain the starting loose forwards will be Sititi, Cane and Savea - in fact, I'll be amazed if they're not. Other question marks....
Finau or Lakai?
Tosi or Newell?
Roigard or Perenara? -
@mariner4life
So badly wants Finau to be good.......................@Frank said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@mariner4life
So badly wants Finau to be good.......................It’s not clear to me how anyone wouldn’t want a selected player to be good
Edit, fuck I boo-booed boo-boo
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@sparky said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
But I guess the bench Vs England will be something like this:
Aumua, Williams, Tosi, Tuipolutu, Finau, Roigard, DMac, ALB.
I think your team and bench will be pretty close.
I'm inclined to think they might have pulled Reece early vs Japan because they plan to play him vs England.
Pretty certain the starting loose forwards will be Sititi, Cane and Savea - in fact, I'll be amazed if they're not. Other question marks....
Finau or Lakai?
Tosi or Newell?
Roigard or Perenara?@Chris-B said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@sparky said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
But I guess the bench Vs England will be something like this:
Aumua, Williams, Tosi, Tuipolutu, Finau, Roigard, DMac, ALB.
I think your team and bench will be pretty close.
I'm inclined to think they might have pulled Reece early vs Japan because they plan to play him vs England.
Pretty certain the starting loose forwards will be Sititi, Cane and Savea - in fact, I'll be amazed if they're not. Other question marks....
Finau or Lakai?
Tosi or Newell?
Roigard or Perenara?Lakai, though i would really worry about our physicality in the tackle when Cane gets subbed
Tosi, Newell doesn't offer much
God i hope it's Roigard even if he wasn't exactly amazing on Saturday. -
@Chris-B said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@sparky said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
But I guess the bench Vs England will be something like this:
Aumua, Williams, Tosi, Tuipolutu, Finau, Roigard, DMac, ALB.
I think your team and bench will be pretty close.
I'm inclined to think they might have pulled Reece early vs Japan because they plan to play him vs England.
Pretty certain the starting loose forwards will be Sititi, Cane and Savea - in fact, I'll be amazed if they're not. Other question marks....
Finau or Lakai?
Tosi or Newell?
Roigard or Perenara?Lakai, though i would really worry about our physicality in the tackle when Cane gets subbed
Tosi, Newell doesn't offer much
God i hope it's Roigard even if he wasn't exactly amazing on Saturday.@mariner4life Lakai offers a bit more cover - especially if the plan is to sub Cane.
But I'm inclined to think it will be Finau, with a plan to sub Sititi (or just maybe Ardie).
Wouldn't bet big money either way.
Yeah - I'd like to see them go with Roigard, but again I wouldn't bet big money on it.
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Someone was leaving big holes around the ruck vs Japan. Was it the pattern, was it Cane, or someone else?
@canefan said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
Someone was leaving big holes around the ruck vs Japan. Was it the pattern, was it Cane, or someone else?
Cane?
It was weird watching our D fall apart systematically a couple of times, and a heap in teh first 10-15. The first try was Aumua leaving pillar way too early and getting smoked on the inside ball (something that happens to us a bit).
I have no idea how the 2nd one happened, we had no numbers on the short side at all, that gap between Cane and Darry was criminal, but then Japan had more numbers wide, 3 different players could have scored there.
I watched the replay of the 3rd try over and over and still can't work out what the fuck went wrong.
Throw in DMac needing to make two try savers on our line and that score could have looked a lot worse.
It seems to me like there are real communication problems out there.
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I worry about Tosi and Williams being on the field together for an extended period. Neither look fit enough which is a real tradeoff when you're as big as they are.
Newell looks like a substandard Franks.
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@mariner4life Lakai offers a bit more cover - especially if the plan is to sub Cane.
But I'm inclined to think it will be Finau, with a plan to sub Sititi (or just maybe Ardie).
Wouldn't bet big money either way.
Yeah - I'd like to see them go with Roigard, but again I wouldn't bet big money on it.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@mariner4life Lakai offers a bit more cover - especially if the plan is to sub Cane.
But I'm inclined to think it will be Finau, with a plan to sub Sititi (or just maybe Ardie).
Wouldn't bet big money either way.
Precedent says there's no subbing Ardie. If the eye test matches their data, it would make much more sense to sub Cane than Sititi.
I wouldn't mind either Finau or Lakai, but it should be for Cane with Sititi going to 7 if Finau comes on. -
@Chris-B said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@mariner4life Lakai offers a bit more cover - especially if the plan is to sub Cane.
But I'm inclined to think it will be Finau, with a plan to sub Sititi (or just maybe Ardie).
Wouldn't bet big money either way.
Precedent says there's no subbing Ardie. If the eye test matches their data, it would make much more sense to sub Cane than Sititi.
I wouldn't mind either Finau or Lakai, but it should be for Cane with Sititi going to 7 if Finau comes on.@reprobate said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@mariner4life Lakai offers a bit more cover - especially if the plan is to sub Cane.
But I'm inclined to think it will be Finau, with a plan to sub Sititi (or just maybe Ardie).
Wouldn't bet big money either way.
Precedent says there's no subbing Ardie. If the eye test matches their data, it would make much more sense to sub Cane than Sititi.
I wouldn't mind either Finau or Lakai, but it should be for Cane with Sititi going to 7 if Finau comes on.If there are no concerns from the weekend and every one trains as expected, I would give Finau another tilt at England.
He got two starts against them earlier in the year and while he didn’t set the world alight, there were signs of what he could offer.
Savea is now rested and so my hope he will be refreshed and ready for a big month. With Papali’i out, Cane gets a start at openside. Finau returns to blindside and Savea will be vice-captain at the back of the pack.
There is a possibility of a 6/2 bench.
6- Finau
7- Cane
8- SaveaBench: Sititi
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@sparky said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
But I guess the bench Vs England will be something like this:
Aumua, Williams, Tosi, Tuipolutu, Finau, Roigard, DMac, ALB.
I think your team and bench will be pretty close.
I'm inclined to think they might have pulled Reece early vs Japan because they plan to play him vs England.
Pretty certain the starting loose forwards will be Sititi, Cane and Savea - in fact, I'll be amazed if they're not. Other question marks....
Finau or Lakai?
Tosi or Newell?
Roigard or Perenara?@Chris-B said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@sparky said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
But I guess the bench Vs England will be something like this:
Aumua, Williams, Tosi, Tuipolutu, Finau, Roigard, DMac, ALB.
I think your team and bench will be pretty close.
I'm inclined to think they might have pulled Reece early vs Japan because they plan to play him vs England.
Pretty certain the starting loose forwards will be Sititi, Cane and Savea - in fact, I'll be amazed if they're not. Other question marks....
Finau or Lakai?
Tosi or Newell?
Roigard or Perenara?Finau, Tosi and Roigard for me. Lakai is pretty much the apprentice on this tour so don’t think he’ll see any more minutes unless there are further injuries.
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I'd go with the 6/2 split so we could have a front row, lock, Sititi and Lakai on the bench.
The other two spots go to ALB and Roigard (but will be TJ). That covers every backline position given how easily we can move our fullback to 10, wing to fullback, centre to wing, ALB to either centre position and a reserve scrumhalf.
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Sititi our best loose forward this season
Fern: « Bench him »
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Sititi our best loose forward this season
Fern: « Bench him »
@Billy-Tell don't confuse what people want to happen with what they think will happen.
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Sititi our best loose forward this season
Fern: « Bench him »
@Billy-Tell said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
Sititi our best loose forward this season
Fern: « Bench him »
We need more size against England and I think the loose trio balance of the first two tests against England was about right.
Given Papali’i is out there is a call to be made between Cane or Sititi I reckon.
