All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham
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@brodean Sorry, I meant I wouldn't have Barrett in the 23.
Perofeta at fullback with Jordan on the right wing is the go for me.
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@brodean Sorry, I meant I wouldn't have Barrett in the 23.
Perofeta at fullback with Jordan on the right wing is the go for me.
I don't get the love for Perofeta at fullback, he wasn't a standout at all in Super rugby in that position, especially in a dominant team. I don't even think many had him as even being apart of the AB squad, let alone a starter in tests of this magnitude. They rested Beaudy for a reason against Japan, he will definitely be in the 23.
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@reprobate I am with you on that but I think you may be in for a shock, we'd be asking a LOT of McKenzie to play the full 80 against Japan and then back up against England a (short) week later given the time zone changes. Beauden going to England early is a pretty strong indicator they have him penned in at 10. But we shall see, where is the sauce??
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The sweat was pouring off our props like oriental waterfalls (and the Japanese front row was as well) even before the end of the first half-if they can maintain that for 40 minutes I am not so worried about their fitness in England. But I think given our bench props's* size NZ will be tempted to go for a 6-2 split.
Despite being a scrummaging newbie, I'd put Tosi on the bench, how can they stop him in the last 10 minutes metres out from the tryline?
I'm interested in how the ABs locks are ranked now and if Situtu has really made them rethink the loosies (Finau wasn't too bad this game, but he seems a bit languid at times). I'm guessing they will stick to Cane but this could result in another lack of speed issue.
The young 9s are so good I'd choose either to start (probably Ratima actually). TJP can lead the haka.
I really don't know how they rate the 10s, but if BB starts I think we are a bit light on reliable goal kickers which could be important against England.
The midfield is still a concern, I thought we were outplayed and ALB wasn't very dominant. If we could combine Preston's distribution with Ioane's tackling we'd have a world-class 13, but, we can't. And I am beginning to think the real problem is at 12, nobody has consistently impressed there recently.
Tele'a played better but for me Jordan and Clarke (and then Ioane) are our best wingers. I'd be a bit radical and keep Love at 15 (if the NZXV hadn't taken him) but after him I'd rank Jordan, BB or Perofeta (who I thought looked a bit indecisive against Japan).*With EdG form/fitness/injury issues, has The Mighty Williams become our #1 loosehead?
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Ruben Love won't be featuring for the ABs:
@sparky said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
Ruben Love won't be featuring for the ABs:
He is good enough for the main team already.
We are too conservative.
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Liam Napier suggesting it's Beauden at 10. He is usually on the money with his predictions.
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
Liam Napier suggesting it's Beauden at 10. He is usually on the money with his predictions.
Unfathomable.
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@sparky said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
Ruben Love won't be featuring for the ABs:
He is good enough for the main team already.
We are too conservative.
@Jet said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@sparky said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
Ruben Love won't be featuring for the ABs:
He is good enough for the main team already.
We are too conservative.
Ooh snap! Would like to see him more under the high ball at international level but he looks a strong rival to Jordan.
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@sparky said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
Ruben Love won't be featuring for the ABs:
He is good enough for the main team already.
We are too conservative.
@Jet said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@sparky said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
Ruben Love won't be featuring for the ABs:
He is good enough for the main team already.
We are too conservative.
Robertson so far has a 67% win rate, a record loss at home, RC gone, Freedom Cup gone, zero player development, unless for injury and an assistant under the bus.
The best player so far is Wallace Sititi and he only got a chance because Blackadder got injured, how many others would have shone if given the chance we'll never know now...
It's a blight on the coaching staff that Sititi is the best player on the park in every game he plays and only became our starting 6 start due to injury to their pet Blackadder.
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6/2 split from England. I wonder if NZ will be tempted to follow given how they have faded late in matches
@Duluth said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
6/2 split from England. I wonder if NZ will be tempted to follow given how they have faded late in matches
They can't really do it well with Barrett at 10 and Jordan at 15 as we need 9, 10, midfield cover.
I wouldn't pick this, but if they had Clarke, Jordan, Dmac back three, we could go to a 6-2 bench with 10/15 cover and can carry ALB on the bench.
The secondary issue though is that even if we do go with a 6-2, Scott Barrett is not better at 6 to end the game, and our loosie mix is still a mess, so figuring out who to sub is hard when we have two untouchables there in Barrett and Savea.
We could start Finau and bring on a Sititi alongside Pat T with another lock (e.g., Lord, Darry) but that requires Barrett at 6 assuming he won't be subbed.
Edit: If we started Barrett at 6 to finish at lock, with Savea and Cane, then we could roll on Finau and Sititi to finish alongside Savea. We could run out Pat T alongside Vaii to start and bring on Lord to finish alongside Barrett.
That doesn't sound that flash either, we have too many untouchables for a 6-2 to work.
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@Duluth said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
6/2 split from England. I wonder if NZ will be tempted to follow given how they have faded late in matches
They can't really do it well with Barrett at 10 and Jordan at 15 as we need 9, 10, midfield cover.
I wouldn't pick this, but if they had Clarke, Jordan, Dmac back three, we could go to a 6-2 bench with 10/15 cover and can carry ALB on the bench.
The secondary issue though is that even if we do go with a 6-2, Scott Barrett is not better at 6 to end the game, and our loosie mix is still a mess, so figuring out who to sub is hard when we have two untouchables there in Barrett and Savea.
We could start Finau and bring on a Sititi alongside Pat T with another lock (e.g., Lord, Darry) but that requires Barrett at 6 assuming he won't be subbed.
Edit: If we started Barrett at 6 to finish at lock, with Savea and Cane, then we could roll on Finau and Sititi to finish alongside Savea. We could run out Pat T alongside Vaii to start and bring on Lord to finish alongside Barrett.
That doesn't sound that flash either, we have too many untouchables for a 6-2 to work.
@gt12 said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@Duluth said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
6/2 split from England. I wonder if NZ will be tempted to follow given how they have faded late in matches
They can't really do it well with Barrett at 10 and Jordan at 15 as we need 9, 10, midfield cover.
I wouldn't pick this, but if they had Clarke, Jordan, Dmac back three, we could go to a 6-2 bench with 10/15 cover and can carry ALB on the bench.
The secondary issue though is that even if we do go with a 6-2, Scott Barrett is not better at 6 to end the game, and our loosie mix is still a mess, so figuring out who to sub is hard when we have two untouchables there in Barrett and Savea.
We could start Finau and bring on a Sititi alongside Pat T with another lock (e.g., Lord, Darry) but that requires Barrett at 6 assuming he won't be subbed.
Edit: If we started Barrett at 6 to finish at lock, with Savea and Cane, then we could roll on Finau and Sititi to finish alongside Savea. We could run out Pat T alongside Vaii to start and bring on Lord to finish alongside Barrett.
That doesn't sound that flash either, we have too many untouchables for a 6-2 to work.
Tupou Vaa'i can move to 6, looks more mobile than SB to me.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@Duluth said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
6/2 split from England. I wonder if NZ will be tempted to follow given how they have faded late in matches
They can't really do it well with Barrett at 10 and Jordan at 15 as we need 9, 10, midfield cover.
I wouldn't pick this, but if they had Clarke, Jordan, Dmac back three, we could go to a 6-2 bench with 10/15 cover and can carry ALB on the bench.
The secondary issue though is that even if we do go with a 6-2, Scott Barrett is not better at 6 to end the game, and our loosie mix is still a mess, so figuring out who to sub is hard when we have two untouchables there in Barrett and Savea.
We could start Finau and bring on a Sititi alongside Pat T with another lock (e.g., Lord, Darry) but that requires Barrett at 6 assuming he won't be subbed.
Edit: If we started Barrett at 6 to finish at lock, with Savea and Cane, then we could roll on Finau and Sititi to finish alongside Savea. We could run out Pat T alongside Vaii to start and bring on Lord to finish alongside Barrett.
That doesn't sound that flash either, we have too many untouchables for a 6-2 to work.
Tupou Vaa'i can move to 6, looks more mobile than SB to me.
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@gt12 said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@Duluth said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
6/2 split from England. I wonder if NZ will be tempted to follow given how they have faded late in matches
They can't really do it well with Barrett at 10 and Jordan at 15 as we need 9, 10, midfield cover.
I wouldn't pick this, but if they had Clarke, Jordan, Dmac back three, we could go to a 6-2 bench with 10/15 cover and can carry ALB on the bench.
The secondary issue though is that even if we do go with a 6-2, Scott Barrett is not better at 6 to end the game, and our loosie mix is still a mess, so figuring out who to sub is hard when we have two untouchables there in Barrett and Savea.
We could start Finau and bring on a Sititi alongside Pat T with another lock (e.g., Lord, Darry) but that requires Barrett at 6 assuming he won't be subbed.
Edit: If we started Barrett at 6 to finish at lock, with Savea and Cane, then we could roll on Finau and Sititi to finish alongside Savea. We could run out Pat T alongside Vaii to start and bring on Lord to finish alongside Barrett.
That doesn't sound that flash either, we have too many untouchables for a 6-2 to work.
Tupou Vaa'i can move to 6, looks more mobile than SB to me.
I agree, but that would three untouchables then.
The issue we have is that both Savea and Barrett aren’t subbed. Adding another makes a 6-2 even harder.
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As I mentioned here https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/post/997305 if they start Finau, Cane and Savea, then the bench can have a replacement lock, Sititi (who has played at 6 a couple of times now) and Lakai.
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As I mentioned here https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/post/997305 if they start Finau, Cane and Savea, then the bench can have a replacement lock, Sititi (who has played at 6 a couple of times now) and Lakai.
@antipodean said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
As I mentioned here https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/post/997305 if they start Finau, Cane and Savea, then the bench can have a replacement lock, Sititi (who has played at 6 a couple of times now) and Lakai.
you might be right, that might well be what they do.
But it seems hard on Sititi who has been (arguably) our best loosie. -
@gt12 said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@Duluth said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
6/2 split from England. I wonder if NZ will be tempted to follow given how they have faded late in matches
They can't really do it well with Barrett at 10 and Jordan at 15 as we need 9, 10, midfield cover.
I wouldn't pick this, but if they had Clarke, Jordan, Dmac back three, we could go to a 6-2 bench with 10/15 cover and can carry ALB on the bench.
The secondary issue though is that even if we do go with a 6-2, Scott Barrett is not better at 6 to end the game, and our loosie mix is still a mess, so figuring out who to sub is hard when we have two untouchables there in Barrett and Savea.
We could start Finau and bring on a Sititi alongside Pat T with another lock (e.g., Lord, Darry) but that requires Barrett at 6 assuming he won't be subbed.
Edit: If we started Barrett at 6 to finish at lock, with Savea and Cane, then we could roll on Finau and Sititi to finish alongside Savea. We could run out Pat T alongside Vaii to start and bring on Lord to finish alongside Barrett.
That doesn't sound that flash either, we have too many untouchables for a 6-2 to work.
Tupou Vaa'i can move to 6, looks more mobile than SB to me.
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@gt12 said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@Duluth said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
6/2 split from England. I wonder if NZ will be tempted to follow given how they have faded late in matches
They can't really do it well with Barrett at 10 and Jordan at 15 as we need 9, 10, midfield cover.
I wouldn't pick this, but if they had Clarke, Jordan, Dmac back three, we could go to a 6-2 bench with 10/15 cover and can carry ALB on the bench.
The secondary issue though is that even if we do go with a 6-2, Scott Barrett is not better at 6 to end the game, and our loosie mix is still a mess, so figuring out who to sub is hard when we have two untouchables there in Barrett and Savea.
We could start Finau and bring on a Sititi alongside Pat T with another lock (e.g., Lord, Darry) but that requires Barrett at 6 assuming he won't be subbed.
Edit: If we started Barrett at 6 to finish at lock, with Savea and Cane, then we could roll on Finau and Sititi to finish alongside Savea. We could run out Pat T alongside Vaii to start and bring on Lord to finish alongside Barrett.
That doesn't sound that flash either, we have too many untouchables for a 6-2 to work.
Tupou Vaa'i can move to 6, looks more mobile than SB to me.
Tupou Vaa'i played 6 in that disaster against South Africa last year and looked absolute dogshit.
This year he has settled in, and been comfortably our best lock, where he plays all his code. And we want to fucking move him?
Even worse, just so we can keep Barrett on the field?
How about our coaches put fucking big boy pants on and be proactive and modern with our subs. The captain is allowed to be subbed off if the other guy is going better.
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@gt12 said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@Duluth said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
6/2 split from England. I wonder if NZ will be tempted to follow given how they have faded late in matches
They can't really do it well with Barrett at 10 and Jordan at 15 as we need 9, 10, midfield cover.
I wouldn't pick this, but if they had Clarke, Jordan, Dmac back three, we could go to a 6-2 bench with 10/15 cover and can carry ALB on the bench.
The secondary issue though is that even if we do go with a 6-2, Scott Barrett is not better at 6 to end the game, and our loosie mix is still a mess, so figuring out who to sub is hard when we have two untouchables there in Barrett and Savea.
We could start Finau and bring on a Sititi alongside Pat T with another lock (e.g., Lord, Darry) but that requires Barrett at 6 assuming he won't be subbed.
Edit: If we started Barrett at 6 to finish at lock, with Savea and Cane, then we could roll on Finau and Sititi to finish alongside Savea. We could run out Pat T alongside Vaii to start and bring on Lord to finish alongside Barrett.
That doesn't sound that flash either, we have too many untouchables for a 6-2 to work.
Tupou Vaa'i can move to 6, looks more mobile than SB to me.
Tupou Vaa'i played 6 in that disaster against South Africa last year and looked absolute dogshit.
This year he has settled in, and been comfortably our best lock, where he plays all his code. And we want to fucking move him?
Even worse, just so we can keep Barrett on the field?
How about our coaches put fucking big boy pants on and be proactive and modern with our subs. The captain is allowed to be subbed off if the other guy is going better.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@gt12 said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@Duluth said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
6/2 split from England. I wonder if NZ will be tempted to follow given how they have faded late in matches
They can't really do it well with Barrett at 10 and Jordan at 15 as we need 9, 10, midfield cover.
I wouldn't pick this, but if they had Clarke, Jordan, Dmac back three, we could go to a 6-2 bench with 10/15 cover and can carry ALB on the bench.
The secondary issue though is that even if we do go with a 6-2, Scott Barrett is not better at 6 to end the game, and our loosie mix is still a mess, so figuring out who to sub is hard when we have two untouchables there in Barrett and Savea.
We could start Finau and bring on a Sititi alongside Pat T with another lock (e.g., Lord, Darry) but that requires Barrett at 6 assuming he won't be subbed.
Edit: If we started Barrett at 6 to finish at lock, with Savea and Cane, then we could roll on Finau and Sititi to finish alongside Savea. We could run out Pat T alongside Vaii to start and bring on Lord to finish alongside Barrett.
That doesn't sound that flash either, we have too many untouchables for a 6-2 to work.
Tupou Vaa'i can move to 6, looks more mobile than SB to me.
Tupou Vaa'i played 6 in that disaster against South Africa last year and looked absolute dogshit.
This year he has settled in, and been comfortably our best lock, where he plays all his code. And we want to fucking move him?
Even worse, just so we can keep Barrett on the field?
How about our coaches put fucking big boy pants on and be proactive and modern with our subs. The captain is allowed to be subbed off if the other guy is going better.
I don't want to move him, I'd rather start him (at lock, I think I said he may have been our best 2024 lock). Just saying in an emergency..
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@gt12 said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@Duluth said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
6/2 split from England. I wonder if NZ will be tempted to follow given how they have faded late in matches
They can't really do it well with Barrett at 10 and Jordan at 15 as we need 9, 10, midfield cover.
I wouldn't pick this, but if they had Clarke, Jordan, Dmac back three, we could go to a 6-2 bench with 10/15 cover and can carry ALB on the bench.
The secondary issue though is that even if we do go with a 6-2, Scott Barrett is not better at 6 to end the game, and our loosie mix is still a mess, so figuring out who to sub is hard when we have two untouchables there in Barrett and Savea.
We could start Finau and bring on a Sititi alongside Pat T with another lock (e.g., Lord, Darry) but that requires Barrett at 6 assuming he won't be subbed.
Edit: If we started Barrett at 6 to finish at lock, with Savea and Cane, then we could roll on Finau and Sititi to finish alongside Savea. We could run out Pat T alongside Vaii to start and bring on Lord to finish alongside Barrett.
That doesn't sound that flash either, we have too many untouchables for a 6-2 to work.
Tupou Vaa'i can move to 6, looks more mobile than SB to me.
Tupou Vaa'i played 6 in that disaster against South Africa last year and looked absolute dogshit.
This year he has settled in, and been comfortably our best lock, where he plays all his code. And we want to fucking move him?
Even worse, just so we can keep Barrett on the field?
How about our coaches put fucking big boy pants on and be proactive and modern with our subs. The captain is allowed to be subbed off if the other guy is going better.
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That's exactly what needs to happen.
The point I'm trying to make is that their capability to do anything is currently fucked by their insistence on keeping on these two untouchables for the 80.@gt12 said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
That's exactly what needs to happen.
The point I'm trying to make is that their capability to do anything is currently fucked by their insistence on keeping on these two untouchables for the 80.oh i completely agree. And it's worse because Savea and Barrett are playing pretty average rugby, while those around them play better (ok not Cane v Australia) so they keep them on until they are fucked, which gives you 10 unproductive minutes from them, and your replacements no time to get in to the game.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
That's exactly what needs to happen.
The point I'm trying to make is that their capability to do anything is currently fucked by their insistence on keeping on these two untouchables for the 80.oh i completely agree. And it's worse because Savea and Barrett are playing pretty average rugby, while those around them play better (ok not Cane v Australia) so they keep them on until they are fucked, which gives you 10 unproductive minutes from them, and your replacements no time to get in to the game.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@gt12 said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
That's exactly what needs to happen.
The point I'm trying to make is that their capability to do anything is currently fucked by their insistence on keeping on these two untouchables for the 80.oh i completely agree. And it's worse because Savea and Barrett are playing pretty average rugby, while those around them play better (ok not Cane v Australia) so they keep them on until they are fucked, which gives you 10 unproductive minutes from them, and your replacements no time to get in to the game.
Don't get me started on them running some guys into the ground and giving others meaningless minutes where they can't make an impact.
The innovation is coming. Surely.
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@sparky said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@Jet Yeah, some genius decided the All Blacks must have a "League-style 10" and made that the great shibboleth of New Zealand Rugby, when a 10, who can catch, pass, kick, tackle and above all make the correct decisions under pressure, is what we really need.
As I've said before, it's the hangover from the Dan Carter era. Too much focus on the spectacular part of his game and not enough on the fact that DC did all the fundamentals of 10 play exceptionally well
@canefan said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@sparky said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@Jet Yeah, some genius decided the All Blacks must have a "League-style 10" and made that the great shibboleth of New Zealand Rugby, when a 10, who can catch, pass, kick, tackle and above all make the correct decisions under pressure, is what we really need.
As I've said before, it's the hangover from the Dan Carter era. Too much focus on the spectacular part of his game and not enough on the fact that DC did all the fundamentals of 10 play exceptionally well
I cannot upvote this enough. I also agree the BB over cruden legacy is also being felt....
Can't recall a game where BB just commanded the game around the park like DC and Cruden could. #defensivebombsforthewin
