Aussie Pro Rugby
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He is really engaging in real life (as I'm sure all the posters on here are...:face_with_stuck-out_tongue: ) - one of those super-charismatic guys that everyone likes.
@voodoo So what's his end game with playing the fool on TV then? I genuinely don't understand why someone would willingly choose to come across looking like an squealing idiot when they're not.
Also, sadly, my only interaction with him he was a bit of a dick, but that was a long time ago.
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@rotated said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@mariner4life said in Aussie Rugby in general:
Interesting that this is a review in to the "disasterous" World Cup campaign only.
Isn't that a bit of a bullshit focus?
How would you even go about it? Cheika openly relies very little on systems, structure or delegation. If questioned on anything as part of a review there is every reason to think he will be massively defensive.
The review into 2015 must be a quality read.
The point was about whether you'd consider it a disaster in terms of performance, when a QF exit was the most probable outcome.
@NTA said in Aussie Rugby in general:
The point was about whether you'd consider it a disaster in terms of performance, when a QF exit was the most probable outcome.
If the conclusion is that it wasn't a disaster then you may as well pack up and call it a day.
Outside of 2015 all the pro-era RWC winners came from losing quarter finalists who did a whole lot of self reflection. This years winner well may not have even made the pool stage.
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@voodoo So what's his end game with playing the fool on TV then? I genuinely don't understand why someone would willingly choose to come across looking like an squealing idiot when they're not.
Also, sadly, my only interaction with him he was a bit of a dick, but that was a long time ago.
@Nepia Shit I dunno man. We don't work together anymore so haven't spoken to him in years. He is a larrikin at heart, I suspect he's just enjoying himself. One thing to remember I guess is that he is never going to be unemployed in this country. Never. So he's probably not too forward-thinking in terms of making sure he is developing as a broadcaster and saying the right things. Its just another paying gig for him.
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@NTA said in Aussie Rugby in general:
The point was about whether you'd consider it a disaster in terms of performance, when a QF exit was the most probable outcome.
If the conclusion is that it wasn't a disaster then you may as well pack up and call it a day.
Outside of 2015 all the pro-era RWC winners came from losing quarter finalists who did a whole lot of self reflection. This years winner well may not have even made the pool stage.
@rotated said in Aussie Rugby in general:
If the conclusion is that it wasn't a disaster then you may as well pack up and call it a day.
The broader discussion is about whether Australian Rugby still can be considered - even by itself - a Tier 1 Nation given the last 2 decades of decline.
So, yes.
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@Nepia Shit I dunno man. We don't work together anymore so haven't spoken to him in years. He is a larrikin at heart, I suspect he's just enjoying himself. One thing to remember I guess is that he is never going to be unemployed in this country. Never. So he's probably not too forward-thinking in terms of making sure he is developing as a broadcaster and saying the right things. Its just another paying gig for him.
@voodoo said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@Nepia Shit I dunno man. We don't work together anymore so haven't spoken to him in years. He is a larrikin at heart, I suspect he's just enjoying himself. One thing to remember I guess is that he is never going to be unemployed in this country. Never. So he's probably not too forward-thinking in terms of making sure he is developing as a broadcaster and saying the right things. Its just another paying gig for him.
I don't care about him saying anti-establishment things, and pushing buttons etc, that's all fine, but he just straight up says dumb shit sometimes (all well and good for us lot on the Fern but not so much when you're supposed to be providing expert commentary on the box).
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@voodoo So what's his end game with playing the fool on TV then? I genuinely don't understand why someone would willingly choose to come across looking like an squealing idiot when they're not.
Also, sadly, my only interaction with him he was a bit of a dick, but that was a long time ago.
@Nepia said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@voodoo So what's his end game with playing the fool on TV then? I genuinely don't understand why someone would willingly choose to come across looking like an squealing idiot when they're not.
Also, sadly, my only interaction with him he was a bit of a dick, but that was a long time ago.
Yep . It’s the same as being an Internet troll and behaving like a normal person offline. Which one is the real you?
Stephen Jones might be a great person to be mates with but that puerile crap he writes for the papers and on Twitter must come from somewhere. -
@rotated said in Aussie Rugby in general:
If the conclusion is that it wasn't a disaster then you may as well pack up and call it a day.
The broader discussion is about whether Australian Rugby still can be considered - even by itself - a Tier 1 Nation given the last 2 decades of decline.
So, yes.
@NTA said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@rotated said in Aussie Rugby in general:
If the conclusion is that it wasn't a disaster then you may as well pack up and call it a day.
The broader discussion is about whether Australian Rugby still can be considered - even by itself - a Tier 1 Nation given the last 2 decades of decline.
So, yes.
come on mate, that's massively over-stating the problem.
The top Wallaby 23, in terms of talent, would have been good enough to challenge properly for this tournament, given a smart coach to get the best out of them. That is not something a tier 2 nation could say.
The coaches and selectors actually hampered the players as far as i can tell. Add in one of your premier backs having a complete fucking meltdown on social media, and you end up where you did.
The problem your incoming coach is going to have is, a lot of the top-end talent is not going to be there next year.
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@voodoo said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@Nepia Shit I dunno man. We don't work together anymore so haven't spoken to him in years. He is a larrikin at heart, I suspect he's just enjoying himself. One thing to remember I guess is that he is never going to be unemployed in this country. Never. So he's probably not too forward-thinking in terms of making sure he is developing as a broadcaster and saying the right things. Its just another paying gig for him.
I don't care about him saying anti-establishment things, and pushing buttons etc, that's all fine, but he just straight up says dumb shit sometimes (all well and good for us lot on the Fern but not so much when you're supposed to be providing expert commentary on the box).
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@voodoo said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@Nepia Shit I dunno man. We don't work together anymore so haven't spoken to him in years. He is a larrikin at heart, I suspect he's just enjoying himself. One thing to remember I guess is that he is never going to be unemployed in this country. Never. So he's probably not too forward-thinking in terms of making sure he is developing as a broadcaster and saying the right things. Its just another paying gig for him.
I don't care about him saying anti-establishment things, and pushing buttons etc, that's all fine, but he just straight up says dumb shit sometimes (all well and good for us lot on the Fern but not so much when you're supposed to be providing expert commentary on the box).
@Nepia said in Aussie Rugby in general:
I don't care about him saying anti-establishment things, and pushing buttons etc, that's all fine, but he just straight up says dumb shit sometimes (all well and good for us lot on the Fern but not so much when you're supposed to be providing expert commentary on the box).
His audience isn't Kiwi rugby fans. His audience isn't even Aussie rugby fans, they'll be watching no matter what. His audience is casual Aussie sports fans
He's not an expert commentator he's a cheerleader. He plays the part well.
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@voodoo So what's his end game with playing the fool on TV then? I genuinely don't understand why someone would willingly choose to come across looking like an squealing idiot when they're not.
Also, sadly, my only interaction with him he was a bit of a dick, but that was a long time ago.
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@NTA said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@rotated said in Aussie Rugby in general:
If the conclusion is that it wasn't a disaster then you may as well pack up and call it a day.
The broader discussion is about whether Australian Rugby still can be considered - even by itself - a Tier 1 Nation given the last 2 decades of decline.
So, yes.
come on mate, that's massively over-stating the problem.
The top Wallaby 23, in terms of talent, would have been good enough to challenge properly for this tournament, given a smart coach to get the best out of them. That is not something a tier 2 nation could say.
The coaches and selectors actually hampered the players as far as i can tell. Add in one of your premier backs having a complete fucking meltdown on social media, and you end up where you did.
The problem your incoming coach is going to have is, a lot of the top-end talent is not going to be there next year.
@mariner4life said in Aussie Rugby in general:
come on mate, that's massively over-stating the problem.
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The problem your incoming coach is going to have is, a lot of the top-end talent is not going to be there next year.Therefore, am I massively overstating the problem?
Because really that level of regular high performance is down to depth, and despite shoring up parts of the U20 pathway there isn't much else in the cupboard. We are - again - building a talent pathway based on a bunch of very narrow channels and that won't improve our community engagement or wider support.
No wider support is less kids in the system is less milk is less cream is less performance.
Yes we hammered the ABs in Perth but got blanked in Auckland and have started losing to Wales. WALES ffs - a team we can pull wins out of our arses for.
In 2 years - if the Super Rugby squads can stabilise - maybe we're talking about the end of Cheika's reign as the bottom.
However, I'm always wary of RA being able to find a new way to punch through the floor.
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@NTA said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@rotated said in Aussie Rugby in general:
If the conclusion is that it wasn't a disaster then you may as well pack up and call it a day.
The broader discussion is about whether Australian Rugby still can be considered - even by itself - a Tier 1 Nation given the last 2 decades of decline.
So, yes.
come on mate, that's massively over-stating the problem.
The top Wallaby 23, in terms of talent, would have been good enough to challenge properly for this tournament, given a smart coach to get the best out of them. That is not something a tier 2 nation could say.
The coaches and selectors actually hampered the players as far as i can tell. Add in one of your premier backs having a complete fucking meltdown on social media, and you end up where you did.
The problem your incoming coach is going to have is, a lot of the top-end talent is not going to be there next year.
@mariner4life said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@NTA said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@rotated said in Aussie Rugby in general:
If the conclusion is that it wasn't a disaster then you may as well pack up and call it a day.
The broader discussion is about whether Australian Rugby still can be considered - even by itself - a Tier 1 Nation given the last 2 decades of decline.
So, yes.
come on mate, that's massively over-stating the problem.
The top Wallaby 23, in terms of talent, would have been good enough to challenge properly for this tournament, given a smart coach to get the best out of them. That is not something a tier 2 nation could say.
The coaches and selectors actually hampered the players as far as i can tell. Add in one of your premier backs having a complete fucking meltdown on social media, and you end up where you did.
The problem your incoming coach is going to have is, a lot of the top-end talent is not going to be there next year.
I agree with this. This was not a crap Wallaby team - it has underperformed over a long stretch thanks to many factors outside of the player ability alone - which set the expectations for this tournament, which in the end, were largely met. I think if you wound the clock back 3yrs with this group and had a solid coaching structure in place, you'd expect a SF appearance as your baseline.
The issue is really that this team has talent in spite of all the issues in RA. I got a pretty good insight to the Tahs over the last few years, and the way they were coached and managed was a debacle. Really selfish behaviours, poor structures, no forward-thinking, and a lack of accountability, all adding up to give the players zero chance to succeed.
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@Nepia said in Aussie Rugby in general:
I don't care about him saying anti-establishment things, and pushing buttons etc, that's all fine, but he just straight up says dumb shit sometimes (all well and good for us lot on the Fern but not so much when you're supposed to be providing expert commentary on the box).
His audience isn't Kiwi rugby fans. His audience isn't even Aussie rugby fans, they'll be watching no matter what. His audience is casual Aussie sports fans
He's not an expert commentator he's a cheerleader. He plays the part well.
@Duluth said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@Nepia said in Aussie Rugby in general:
I don't care about him saying anti-establishment things, and pushing buttons etc, that's all fine, but he just straight up says dumb shit sometimes (all well and good for us lot on the Fern but not so much when you're supposed to be providing expert commentary on the box).
His audience isn't Kiwi rugby fans. His audience isn't even Aussie rugby fans, they'll be watching no matter what. His audience is casual Aussie sports fans
He's not an expert commentator he's a cheerleader. He plays the part well.
I doubt many casual sports fans in Australia bother to watch the wallabies anymore. Hell I bet many dedicated rugby fans do
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@mariner4life said in Aussie Rugby in general:
come on mate, that's massively over-stating the problem.
...
The problem your incoming coach is going to have is, a lot of the top-end talent is not going to be there next year.Therefore, am I massively overstating the problem?
Because really that level of regular high performance is down to depth, and despite shoring up parts of the U20 pathway there isn't much else in the cupboard. We are - again - building a talent pathway based on a bunch of very narrow channels and that won't improve our community engagement or wider support.
No wider support is less kids in the system is less milk is less cream is less performance.
Yes we hammered the ABs in Perth but got blanked in Auckland and have started losing to Wales. WALES ffs - a team we can pull wins out of our arses for.
In 2 years - if the Super Rugby squads can stabilise - maybe we're talking about the end of Cheika's reign as the bottom.
However, I'm always wary of RA being able to find a new way to punch through the floor.
@NTA said in Aussie Rugby in general:
Yes we hammered the ABs in Perth but got blanked in Auckland and have started losing to Wales. WALES ffs - a team we can pull wins out of our arses for.
Hey, that's the -up-until-very-recently-#1-side-in-the-world Wales you're talking about
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@Duluth said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@Nepia said in Aussie Rugby in general:
I don't care about him saying anti-establishment things, and pushing buttons etc, that's all fine, but he just straight up says dumb shit sometimes (all well and good for us lot on the Fern but not so much when you're supposed to be providing expert commentary on the box).
His audience isn't Kiwi rugby fans. His audience isn't even Aussie rugby fans, they'll be watching no matter what. His audience is casual Aussie sports fans
He's not an expert commentator he's a cheerleader. He plays the part well.
I doubt many casual sports fans in Australia bother to watch the wallabies anymore. Hell I bet many dedicated rugby fans do
@jegga said in Aussie Rugby in general:
I doubt many casual sports fans in Australia bother to watch the wallabies anymore. Hell I bet many dedicated rugby fans do
Maybe. That doesn't change my point.
His job description is very different than someone like Richard Turner in NZ
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@jegga said in Aussie Rugby in general:
I doubt many casual sports fans in Australia bother to watch the wallabies anymore. Hell I bet many dedicated rugby fans do
Maybe. That doesn't change my point.
His job description is very different than someone like Richard Turner in NZ
@Duluth said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@jegga said in Aussie Rugby in general:
I doubt many casual sports fans in Australia bother to watch the wallabies anymore. Hell I bet many dedicated rugby fans do
Maybe. That doesn't change my point.
His job description is very different than someone like Richard Turner in NZ
Who would be his equivalent here? Stevenson?
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@Duluth said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@jegga said in Aussie Rugby in general:
I doubt many casual sports fans in Australia bother to watch the wallabies anymore. Hell I bet many dedicated rugby fans do
Maybe. That doesn't change my point.
His job description is very different than someone like Richard Turner in NZ
Who would be his equivalent here? Stevenson?
He's a comments man. So Marshall
But I don't think he's in the A team anymore? So someone like Turner is about right
Edit - or are you talking in terms of cheerleading? Stevenson fan boys over players but I think he is different again. Our market doesn't need a Kearns because rugby is the no1 sport
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@mariner4life said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@NTA said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@rotated said in Aussie Rugby in general:
If the conclusion is that it wasn't a disaster then you may as well pack up and call it a day.
The broader discussion is about whether Australian Rugby still can be considered - even by itself - a Tier 1 Nation given the last 2 decades of decline.
So, yes.
come on mate, that's massively over-stating the problem.
The top Wallaby 23, in terms of talent, would have been good enough to challenge properly for this tournament, given a smart coach to get the best out of them. That is not something a tier 2 nation could say.
The coaches and selectors actually hampered the players as far as i can tell. Add in one of your premier backs having a complete fucking meltdown on social media, and you end up where you did.
The problem your incoming coach is going to have is, a lot of the top-end talent is not going to be there next year.
I agree with this. This was not a crap Wallaby team - it has underperformed over a long stretch thanks to many factors outside of the player ability alone - which set the expectations for this tournament, which in the end, were largely met. I think if you wound the clock back 3yrs with this group and had a solid coaching structure in place, you'd expect a SF appearance as your baseline.
The issue is really that this team has talent in spite of all the issues in RA. I got a pretty good insight to the Tahs over the last few years, and the way they were coached and managed was a debacle. Really selfish behaviours, poor structures, no forward-thinking, and a lack of accountability, all adding up to give the players zero chance to succeed.
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@voodoo said in Aussie Rugby in general:
Really selfish behaviours, poor structures, no forward-thinking, and a lack of accountability, all adding up to give the players zero chance to succeed.
So, basically the same as the last two decades?
@NTA said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@voodoo said in Aussie Rugby in general:
Really selfish behaviours, poor structures, no forward-thinking, and a lack of accountability, all adding up to give the players zero chance to succeed.
So, basically the same as the last two decades?
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Let's remember for a minute that the Brumbies - our most successful professional team - have often been successful in spite of the coach, administration, or national leadership.
They're are deep cultural issues in Aussie Rugby based on the political farce/pissing contest that many of the fish heads decide is best for the game.
Can it be fixed? Sure.
Burn down the schools competition and start again with a Junior clubs structure that works.
Restructure Premier Club Rugby to sit under NRC properly.
Find a way for Suburban Rugby to contribute to the pyramid and receive the benefits.
Once you've overcome those particular impossibilities, we will be heading in the right direction.
