Aussie Pro Rugby
-
@NTA said in Aussie Rugby:
Further: Sydney Club Rugby might be enjoying a resurgence in spectator numbers, and even quality of play, but it is still a fucking basket case.
And at the expense of Super Rugby crowds.
@antipodean said in Aussie Rugby:
@NTA said in Aussie Rugby:
Further: Sydney Club Rugby might be enjoying a resurgence in spectator numbers, and even quality of play, but it is still a fucking basket case.
And at the expense of Super Rugby crowds.
I always wonder how much of that is a factor?
The big attendance clubs recently have been Manly and Warringah - and their fans are known for not travelling away from the Insular Peninsula. The final between the Rats and Uni in Parramatta was not a raging success despite the Rats having a decent shot (until the Uni Super Bench came on).
The northern beaches derby looks like a fucking hoot, but I don't think many of them had been to a Super Rugby match in the last decade unless it was at Brookie.
No doubt the Saturday afternoon support contributes to less Saturday evening attendance at a Tahs game, but I think a bigger factor is that the tahs are just shit. You could use that for the Reds as well, though it is a shame we didn't get to see them go through a whole season to bring the people back.
What is the cause for the Brumbies tho? They're winning games - and in attractive fashion, mostly - but can't pull the numbers they did.
-
Ahh yes staffing, the simple solution to the complex problem. The 'bloated back office' full of self-important suits who spend their days telling others how to suck eggs.
My work has brought me in contact with RA staff on a number of occasions, and a few other sports as well. The reality is sports HQs are mainly filled with young people who are underpaid but passionate about the game they work for. They pay below market rate.
I'd wager there wouldn't be many of that 150 who are paid above 120k.
But also, critics of RA can't have it both ways here. They want more support for the 'grassroots' but that means staff - coaches, development officers, admin assistants. How do you think the AFL does it? They have an army of young staff who work in outposts all over the country.
But the critics also want a world-class high performance program. We need to win trophies! Well would you believe that means staff too - strength and conditioning, analysts, kicking coaches, medicos, sports psychs.
And then of course you need the things that modern companies all have to have - IT, legal, government relations, sponsorships and sales, etc etc etc.
It annoys me because people see the line on the balance sheet and go "that's way too high - think of what we could do with that money!" and then propose a series of things that require additional back office spend.
The reality is nobody here truly knows if every cent of that money is well spent, but I'll make the point that it doesn't happen for no reason. It wasn't like we had a cash windfall and went "let's hire some mates and get on the beeeeers baby".
@barbarian said in Aussie Rugby:
The reality is nobody here truly knows if every cent of that money is well spent, but I'll make the point that it doesn't happen for no reason. It wasn't like we had a cash windfall and went "let's hire some mates and get on the beeeeers baby".
Well, we sorta did in 2003 and went "Let's hire some leaguies and get on the blow!" (didn't we, Wendell
)Back to your points - which are all valid and I think you could nudge that $120K figure down a little.
As you say, RA is a corporation, and therefore runs at 2 speeds as far as remuneration goes: the top of the tree is very well looked after because there is a drive to secure the best strategic direction. The long drop to the worker bees is pretty stark. Typical I guess but it doesn't help the balance sheet when contracts have to be paid out.
The other big issue is competition and development structure: RA don't have the funds to help amateur rugby like it does pro rugby. They need the Wallabies to win, so they need to develop players from age grades up, and that takes more cash per body than blokes like me kicking around in park footy.
-
@barbarian said in Aussie Rugby:
The reality is nobody here truly knows if every cent of that money is well spent, but I'll make the point that it doesn't happen for no reason. It wasn't like we had a cash windfall and went "let's hire some mates and get on the beeeeers baby".
Well, we sorta did in 2003 and went "Let's hire some leaguies and get on the blow!" (didn't we, Wendell
)Back to your points - which are all valid and I think you could nudge that $120K figure down a little.
As you say, RA is a corporation, and therefore runs at 2 speeds as far as remuneration goes: the top of the tree is very well looked after because there is a drive to secure the best strategic direction. The long drop to the worker bees is pretty stark. Typical I guess but it doesn't help the balance sheet when contracts have to be paid out.
The other big issue is competition and development structure: RA don't have the funds to help amateur rugby like it does pro rugby. They need the Wallabies to win, so they need to develop players from age grades up, and that takes more cash per body than blokes like me kicking around in park footy.
@NTA said in Aussie Rugby:
The other big issue is competition and development structure: RA don't have the funds to help amateur rugby like it does pro rugby. They need the Wallabies to win, so they need to develop players from age grades up, and that takes more cash per body than blokes like me kicking around in park footy.
I have heard at least six years worth of 'we're neglecting the grassroots' arguments, and still don't quite know what people want RA to do.
We can list off motherhood statements about the importance of grassroots rugby until the cows come home (and lord knows the 11 skippers gave it a red hot go), but coming up with tangible ideas that haven't been tried is almost impossible.
More cash seems to be the answer, but sadly we don't have that much to spend. A guy like you Nick would have far more ideas than your average ex-Wallaby skipper, but I'll be nobody is knocking on your door. You do live a long way from the Eastern Suburbs, to be fair.
-
@antipodean said in Aussie Rugby:
@NTA said in Aussie Rugby:
Further: Sydney Club Rugby might be enjoying a resurgence in spectator numbers, and even quality of play, but it is still a fucking basket case.
And at the expense of Super Rugby crowds.
I always wonder how much of that is a factor?
The big attendance clubs recently have been Manly and Warringah - and their fans are known for not travelling away from the Insular Peninsula. The final between the Rats and Uni in Parramatta was not a raging success despite the Rats having a decent shot (until the Uni Super Bench came on).
The northern beaches derby looks like a fucking hoot, but I don't think many of them had been to a Super Rugby match in the last decade unless it was at Brookie.
No doubt the Saturday afternoon support contributes to less Saturday evening attendance at a Tahs game, but I think a bigger factor is that the tahs are just shit. You could use that for the Reds as well, though it is a shame we didn't get to see them go through a whole season to bring the people back.
What is the cause for the Brumbies tho? They're winning games - and in attractive fashion, mostly - but can't pull the numbers they did.
@NTA said in Aussie Rugby:
@antipodean said in Aussie Rugby:
@NTA said in Aussie Rugby:
Further: Sydney Club Rugby might be enjoying a resurgence in spectator numbers, and even quality of play, but it is still a fucking basket case.
And at the expense of Super Rugby crowds.
I always wonder how much of that is a factor?
The big attendance clubs recently have been Manly and Warringah - and their fans are known for not travelling away from the Insular Peninsula. The final between the Rats and Uni in Parramatta was not a raging success despite the Rats having a decent shot (until the Uni Super Bench came on).
The northern beaches derby looks like a fucking hoot, but I don't think many of them had been to a Super Rugby match in the last decade unless it was at Brookie.
No doubt the Saturday afternoon support contributes to less Saturday evening attendance at a Tahs game, but I think a bigger factor is that the tahs are just shit. You could use that for the Reds as well, though it is a shame we didn't get to see them go through a whole season to bring the people back.
What is the cause for the Brumbies tho? They're winning games - and in attractive fashion, mostly - but can't pull the numbers they did.
I can probably vouch for this. I get to a bunch of Manly home games, for no other reason than they are convenient and fun. I hold no real allegiance, but walking to a field to drink $6 cans and watch some footie with the lads while the kids run riot is pretty easy fare. Getting me on the ferry then a cab, into the stadium, through 90mins of Tahs torture, then a long haul home, is a totally different ask.
Manly home crowds would be at most 50% "proper" supporters. The remainder, like me, are just there because it's fun and its easy.
And for the record, I was present and stoked when the Canes beat the Tahs at Brookie last year. I was also sitting next to my mates wife (he was the Tahs forwards coach), who was not impressed at my celebrations.
-
@NTA said in Aussie Rugby:
The other big issue is competition and development structure: RA don't have the funds to help amateur rugby like it does pro rugby. They need the Wallabies to win, so they need to develop players from age grades up, and that takes more cash per body than blokes like me kicking around in park footy.
I have heard at least six years worth of 'we're neglecting the grassroots' arguments, and still don't quite know what people want RA to do.
We can list off motherhood statements about the importance of grassroots rugby until the cows come home (and lord knows the 11 skippers gave it a red hot go), but coming up with tangible ideas that haven't been tried is almost impossible.
More cash seems to be the answer, but sadly we don't have that much to spend. A guy like you Nick would have far more ideas than your average ex-Wallaby skipper, but I'll be nobody is knocking on your door. You do live a long way from the Eastern Suburbs, to be fair.
@barbarian said in Aussie Rugby:
I have heard at least six years worth of 'we're neglecting the grassroots' arguments, and still don't quite know what people want RA to do.
What they mean by "grassroots" is "give Sydney Premier Rugby enough cash to buy players".
Grassroots is such a widely abused term that I'm surprised it isn't banned in rugby circles. What we do have is a lack of organisation in resource sharing across rugby, and a club system that is horribly misaligned with schools rugby.
This absurd revisionism that puts Premier Rugby and Grassroots in the same bucket makes me sick. You've got Premier Clubs who want to be professional (while claiming they only pay win bonuses
) and yet hoovering up talent from local suburban clubs to fill the requirement for 4 Grades + 3 Colts each.On the flipside, there are Subbies clubs worth more than Premier Clubs, because - yet again - ring fencing and Sydney Rugby Union versus NSW Suburban Rugby Union with NSW Rugby Union hovering in the background and Sydney Junior Rugby Union trying to get themselves heard over 3 or 4 schools associations.
The goal for Subbies First Division is Kentwell Cup, every year. They can't get promoted as you know. The rotating door between Divs 1, 2, & 3 is similar bodies every time.
And clubs like Two Blues and Pirates will continue to be whipping boys for the clubs with cash, coaches, and a hotline to Waratahs selection.
So where are the incentives?
Every club above a certain level should be running 3 Grades + 1 Colts as a maximum and vying for promotion to the next level up. If people want to go play park footy, help a club that is just down the street instead of heading over to fucking Mosman just because its easy to chuck your $360 a year into their kitty and play 20 minutes on a Saturday.
EDIT: Hell, if that worked out, maybe clubs figure out how to sort out a squad of 28 on top of that to play a National Club Competition.
@barbarian said in Aussie Rugby:
You do live a long way from the Eastern Suburbs, to be fair.
One bonus of this fucking pandemic is I finally get to do Subbies Board Meetings from the comfort of my home office, rather than the 100km round-trip to Daceyville
And, smiling broadly, I fucking told them that as well.
-
@antipodean said in Aussie Rugby:
@NTA said in Aussie Rugby:
Further: Sydney Club Rugby might be enjoying a resurgence in spectator numbers, and even quality of play, but it is still a fucking basket case.
And at the expense of Super Rugby crowds.
I always wonder how much of that is a factor?
The big attendance clubs recently have been Manly and Warringah - and their fans are known for not travelling away from the Insular Peninsula. The final between the Rats and Uni in Parramatta was not a raging success despite the Rats having a decent shot (until the Uni Super Bench came on).
The northern beaches derby looks like a fucking hoot, but I don't think many of them had been to a Super Rugby match in the last decade unless it was at Brookie.
No doubt the Saturday afternoon support contributes to less Saturday evening attendance at a Tahs game, but I think a bigger factor is that the tahs are just shit. You could use that for the Reds as well, though it is a shame we didn't get to see them go through a whole season to bring the people back.
What is the cause for the Brumbies tho? They're winning games - and in attractive fashion, mostly - but can't pull the numbers they did.
@NTA said in Aussie Rugby:
What is the cause for the Brumbies tho? They're winning games - and in attractive fashion, mostly - but can't pull the numbers they did.
Something like the old "snapping the elastic" idea bandied about in distance running. That worry for a runner who is losing contact with another in front, as the imaginary elastic is being stretched. It's still possible to get back while he stays in contact but once it snaps he's gone.
The way rugby is run is dropping it through the back of the spectator pack. The game is still jogging alongside a few middle-aged tragics 40s/50s and up, but the demographic bands below that have largely snapped and are gone. Yes, that's an oversimplification and just one of many things going on. But, for something that was a niche sport to start with, that drop off over time will be readily seen in a small place like Canberra.
To be fair, the decline is evident enough elsewhere as well.
-
@antipodean said in Aussie Rugby:
@NTA said in Aussie Rugby:
Further: Sydney Club Rugby might be enjoying a resurgence in spectator numbers, and even quality of play, but it is still a fucking basket case.
And at the expense of Super Rugby crowds.
I always wonder how much of that is a factor?
The big attendance clubs recently have been Manly and Warringah - and their fans are known for not travelling away from the Insular Peninsula. The final between the Rats and Uni in Parramatta was not a raging success despite the Rats having a decent shot (until the Uni Super Bench came on).
The northern beaches derby looks like a fucking hoot, but I don't think many of them had been to a Super Rugby match in the last decade unless it was at Brookie.
No doubt the Saturday afternoon support contributes to less Saturday evening attendance at a Tahs game, but I think a bigger factor is that the tahs are just shit. You could use that for the Reds as well, though it is a shame we didn't get to see them go through a whole season to bring the people back.
What is the cause for the Brumbies tho? They're winning games - and in attractive fashion, mostly - but can't pull the numbers they did.
@NTA said in Aussie Rugby:
@antipodean said in Aussie Rugby:
@NTA said in Aussie Rugby:
Further: Sydney Club Rugby might be enjoying a resurgence in spectator numbers, and even quality of play, but it is still a fucking basket case.
And at the expense of Super Rugby crowds.
I always wonder how much of that is a factor?
The big attendance clubs recently have been Manly and Warringah - and their fans are known for not travelling away from the Insular Peninsula. The final between the Rats and Uni in Parramatta was not a raging success despite the Rats having a decent shot (until the Uni Super Bench came on).
The northern beaches derby looks like a fucking hoot, but I don't think many of them had been to a Super Rugby match in the last decade unless it was at Brookie.
I think that's part of the problem. Club rugby with cheap tickets and cheap drinks, like-minded people out to enjoy the evening is a great afternoon. If higher standard rugby offered the same thing they'd make the effort.
What is the cause for the Brumbies tho? They're winning games - and in attractive fashion, mostly - but can't pull the numbers they did.
A fair bit of the above. The ground is a cold shithole in the middle of nowhere, the rugby of the last few years has been low risk, kick for the corner and maul. Canberra loves a winner and they're not competing at home in the finals so people aren't attending.
The problem with rugby in Australia is structural; it's not set up to reward good clubs. Penrith got booted despite having talent because the best players every season were poached.
-
@NTA said in Aussie Rugby:
What is the cause for the Brumbies tho? They're winning games - and in attractive fashion, mostly - but can't pull the numbers they did.
Something like the old "snapping the elastic" idea bandied about in distance running. That worry for a runner who is losing contact with another in front, as the imaginary elastic is being stretched. It's still possible to get back while he stays in contact but once it snaps he's gone.
The way rugby is run is dropping it through the back of the spectator pack. The game is still jogging alongside a few middle-aged tragics 40s/50s and up, but the demographic bands below that have largely snapped and are gone. Yes, that's an oversimplification and just one of many things going on. But, for something that was a niche sport to start with, that drop off over time will be readily seen in a small place like Canberra.
To be fair, the decline is evident enough elsewhere as well.
-
The solution is a review board to work out solutions...
@Godder I just shook my head at that. Out of the frying pan and into the fire aye!!
-
New Wallabies coach Dave Rennie and his assistants have sent one of Australia’s highest-profile players a clear indication of where he sits in the pecking order by leaving him out of an extended "players of national interest" squad.
While there are a number of exciting new names on the list, including Brumbies young gun Noah Lolesio, multiple sources have told the Herald that Kurtley Beale, a 92-Test veteran who has featured at three World Cup campaigns, is on the outer.
Etc
-
New Wallabies coach Dave Rennie and his assistants have sent one of Australia’s highest-profile players a clear indication of where he sits in the pecking order by leaving him out of an extended "players of national interest" squad.
While there are a number of exciting new names on the list, including Brumbies young gun Noah Lolesio, multiple sources have told the Herald that Kurtley Beale, a 92-Test veteran who has featured at three World Cup campaigns, is on the outer.
Etc
@NTA Mmmm "Little information has been provided as to exactly how many players feature in the most up to date PONI squad but it is understood players are aware where they stand."
A hint that it will be the Wallabrumbies? Or maybe just My Little Ponies?
-
@NTA Mmmm "Little information has been provided as to exactly how many players feature in the most up to date PONI squad but it is understood players are aware where they stand."
A hint that it will be the Wallabrumbies? Or maybe just My Little Ponies?
@Machpants ha! I thought that
-
This is getting more interesting by the day. Andrew Slack has his say.
-
@ACT-Crusader Welcome back.
-
Big u-turn by Dave Rennie. He said he'd walk if she got booted up.
She resigns before she gets pushed (the writing was on the wall), but Rennie stays.
@sparky said in Aussie Rugby:
Big u-turn by Dave Rennie. He said he'd walk if she got booted up.
She resigns before she gets pushed (the writing was on the wall), but Rennie stays.
Call me a cynic, but he was always going to stay. Where else was he going to go?
-
Big u-turn by Dave Rennie. He said he'd walk if she got booted up.
She resigns before she gets pushed (the writing was on the wall), but Rennie stays.
@sparky said in Aussie Rugby:
Big u-turn by Dave Rennie. He said he'd walk if she got booted up.
She resigns before she gets pushed (the writing was on the wall), but Rennie stays.
He never said he'd leave, it was just click bait news titles
-
Big u-turn by Dave Rennie. He said he'd walk if she got booted up.
She resigns before she gets pushed (the writing was on the wall), but Rennie stays.
