Aussie Pro Rugby
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@voodoo do you really think NZ still has a "strong and growing community support"? feels like thats been dwindling for years, in any tangible way anyway anyway, everyone saying they support the local team when asked is very different to actually giving over their time and or money
@Kiwiwomble said in Aussie Rugby:
@voodoo do you really think NZ still has a "strong and growing community support"? feels like thats been dwindling for years, in any tangible way anyway anyway, everyone saying they support the local team when asked is very different to actually giving over their time and or money
I dunno mate, haven't lived in NZ since '99. I'd from afar that the population appears invested still at least, unlike Oz?
But if we don't have that either, then it's even more dire than I thought
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I think if you look at Australian rugby with a very long lens (since 1960) then this doesn't look like rock bottom. What it looks like is a reversion to the mean.
And the period from 1990-2003 is the outlier. As the code became more professional, Australia adapted much better than any other nation and were richly rewarded. As the other countries caught up, we've gone back to the pack.
So now we sit were we always have, maybe slightly below. We will rise and fall but the idea we will return to #1 is fanciful.
@barbarian said in Aussie Rugby:
I think if you look at Australian rugby with a very long lens (since 1960) then this doesn't look like rock bottom. What it looks like is a reversion to the mean.
And the period from 1990-2003 is the outlier. As the code became more professional, Australia adapted much better than any other nation and were richly rewarded. As the other countries caught up, we've gone back to the pack.
So now we sit were we always have, maybe slightly below. We will rise and fall but the idea we will return to #1 is fanciful.
When I suggested that elsewhere, a bunch of nuffies shouted me down.
Historically - prior to the 80s, say - we've had the odd good win against a proper rugby nation and long stretches of zero.
I think you could easily say Grand Slam through to 2001 we seriously overachieved, but for many that became the norm.
Hence why you see old farts saying Club Rugby is the answer.
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@Kiwiwomble said in Aussie Rugby:
@voodoo do you really think NZ still has a "strong and growing community support"? feels like thats been dwindling for years, in any tangible way anyway anyway, everyone saying they support the local team when asked is very different to actually giving over their time and or money
I dunno mate, haven't lived in NZ since '99. I'd from afar that the population appears invested still at least, unlike Oz?
But if we don't have that either, then it's even more dire than I thought
@voodoo I think people would become more invested in NPC if it was the main focus for NZR (below ABs) but that wont happen as it would appear NZR has all but washed its hands of the NPC.
NZR really needs to have a look at things and map a way forward from here, closer ties with Japan is one part of the equation for the money it will generate, but again this wont help our on field play.
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@Kiwiwomble said in Aussie Rugby:
@voodoo do you really think NZ still has a "strong and growing community support"? feels like thats been dwindling for years, in any tangible way anyway anyway, everyone saying they support the local team when asked is very different to actually giving over their time and or money
I dunno mate, haven't lived in NZ since '99. I'd from afar that the population appears invested still at least, unlike Oz?
But if we don't have that either, then it's even more dire than I thought
@voodoo NZ doesn't look much better to me, clubs going belly up, abysmal crowds in stands, i think some of us look at +60k people turning up to an AB's game and think all is fine....what we need to +20k every week for all teams in the super rugby
The fact the AB's can play in chch in the stadium with 25k capacity...and you can still get tickets the week of (that was my experience when living in chch)...aint good
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@voodoo NZ doesn't look much better to me, clubs going belly up, abysmal crowds in stands, i think some of us look at +60k people turning up to an AB's game and think all is fine....what we need to +20k every week for all teams in the super rugby
The fact the AB's can play in chch in the stadium with 25k capacity...and you can still get tickets the week of (that was my experience when living in chch)...aint good
@Kiwiwomble Yep
The purpose of my post was to paint a depressing picture, not a positive one. I'm actually a bit down on where we go from here, I genuinely think we are in for a long period of NH /SA dominance. Strong and well backed club game, with a really solid test window against quality teams - self-perpetuating stuff.
NZ can maybe replicate the club format (or NPC, I dunno), but that'll take time. And our geographic position means quality tests are always tough to schedule - we have years of experience of France and England sending C teams to play us in June, then we get the Wallabies who suck, and now SA don't want to play us anymore. Playing Japan is fun but ain't gonna solve the issue
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I think if you look at Australian rugby with a very long lens (since 1960) then this doesn't look like rock bottom. What it looks like is a reversion to the mean.
And the period from 1990-2003 is the outlier. As the code became more professional, Australia adapted much better than any other nation and were richly rewarded. As the other countries caught up, we've gone back to the pack.
So now we sit were we always have, maybe slightly below. We will rise and fall but the idea we will return to #1 is fanciful.
@barbarian said in Aussie Rugby:
I think if you look at Australian rugby with a very long lens (since 1960) then this doesn't look like rock bottom. What it looks like is a reversion to the mean.
And the period from 1990-2003 is the outlier. As the code became more professional, Australia adapted much better than any other nation and were richly rewarded. As the other countries caught up, we've gone back to the pack.
So now we sit were we always have, maybe slightly below. We will rise and fall but the idea we will return to #1 is fanciful.
I've been saying that for years to supporters whose expectations were set on a generation of outliers. People without a sense or knowledge of history. The amount of disbelief when you explain to some of them that the Wallabies have lost to Tonga for example. The sad aspect is it didn't have to be this way, but instead of becoming Ireland, they spent 20 years mismanaging it and squandering the opportunity.
That's why there's the hope that 2025-27 will be a great reset. But as the FIFA WWC showed, you need your team to be successful at the same time. Eddie may well be correct that there's quality in the current squad that will turn into world class players, but that light at the end of the tunnel is very dim.
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@voodoo NZ doesn't look much better to me, clubs going belly up, abysmal crowds in stands, i think some of us look at +60k people turning up to an AB's game and think all is fine....what we need to +20k every week for all teams in the super rugby
The fact the AB's can play in chch in the stadium with 25k capacity...and you can still get tickets the week of (that was my experience when living in chch)...aint good
@Kiwiwomble said in Aussie Rugby:
@voodoo NZ doesn't look much better to me, clubs going belly up, abysmal crowds in stands, i think some of us look at +60k people turning up to an AB's game and think all is fine....what we need to +20k every week for all teams in the super rugby
Why, when you can watch it from home and not get gouged for food and drinks at a ridiculous nonfamily friendly time?
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@Kiwiwomble said in Aussie Rugby:
@voodoo NZ doesn't look much better to me, clubs going belly up, abysmal crowds in stands, i think some of us look at +60k people turning up to an AB's game and think all is fine....what we need to +20k every week for all teams in the super rugby
Why, when you can watch it from home and not get gouged for food and drinks at a ridiculous nonfamily friendly time?
@antipodean i cant argue with that...but other sports manage it (and much more), so i think rugby is missing something
@Tim said in Aussie Rugby:
Australia needs to drop two SR teams, or there needs to be more NZ teams. Current competition isn't competitive.
personally i feel that means theyre only going to be developing less than a hundred top players...so i feel the latter is a better option, might lower the average skill level in the short term....but long term i think it will come back up
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@antipodean i cant argue with that...but other sports manage it (and much more), so i think rugby is missing something
@Tim said in Aussie Rugby:
Australia needs to drop two SR teams, or there needs to be more NZ teams. Current competition isn't competitive.
personally i feel that means theyre only going to be developing less than a hundred top players...so i feel the latter is a better option, might lower the average skill level in the short term....but long term i think it will come back up
@Kiwiwomble said in Aussie Rugby:
@antipodean i cant argue with that...but other sports manage it (and much more), so i think rugby is missing something
I'd change the scheduling so that there was only one marquee game at night and the rest during the day so families could attend. I'd also make it cheaper for families to attend games which drives atmosphere. Better atmosphere, more water cooler talk, more attendance.
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@Kiwiwomble said in Aussie Rugby:
@antipodean i cant argue with that...but other sports manage it (and much more), so i think rugby is missing something
I'd change the scheduling so that there was only one marquee game at night and the rest during the day so families could attend. I'd also make it cheaper for families to attend games which drives atmosphere. Better atmosphere, more water cooler talk, more attendance.
@antipodean said in Aussie Rugby:
@Kiwiwomble said in Aussie Rugby:
@antipodean i cant argue with that...but other sports manage it (and much more), so i think rugby is missing something
I'd change the scheduling so that there was only one marquee game at night and the rest during the day so families could attend. I'd also make it cheaper for families to attend games which drives atmosphere. Better atmosphere, more water cooler talk, more attendance.
definitely
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@Kiwiwomble said in Aussie Rugby:
@antipodean i cant argue with that...but other sports manage it (and much more), so i think rugby is missing something
I'd change the scheduling so that there was only one marquee game at night and the rest during the day so families could attend. I'd also make it cheaper for families to attend games which drives atmosphere. Better atmosphere, more water cooler talk, more attendance.
@antipodean said in Aussie Rugby:
@Kiwiwomble said in Aussie Rugby:
@antipodean i cant argue with that...but other sports manage it (and much more), so i think rugby is missing something
I'd change the scheduling so that there was only one marquee game at night and the rest during the day so families could attend. I'd also make it cheaper for families to attend games which drives atmosphere. Better atmosphere, more water cooler talk, more attendance.
But think of the TV rights holders!
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@antipodean said in Aussie Rugby:
@Kiwiwomble said in Aussie Rugby:
@antipodean i cant argue with that...but other sports manage it (and much more), so i think rugby is missing something
I'd change the scheduling so that there was only one marquee game at night and the rest during the day so families could attend. I'd also make it cheaper for families to attend games which drives atmosphere. Better atmosphere, more water cooler talk, more attendance.
But think of the TV rights holders!
@NTA said in Aussie Rugby:
@antipodean said in Aussie Rugby:
@Kiwiwomble said in Aussie Rugby:
@antipodean i cant argue with that...but other sports manage it (and much more), so i think rugby is missing something
I'd change the scheduling so that there was only one marquee game at night and the rest during the day so families could attend. I'd also make it cheaper for families to attend games which drives atmosphere. Better atmosphere, more water cooler talk, more attendance.
But think of the TV rights holders!
lol you need an audience for TV
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