Aussie Pro Rugby
-
@Catogrande I saw it a while back. I've had a few convos with him via Twitter.
His general point about cohesion is valid (I'm a fan of Ben Darwin's data on this), but the premise that we need to go back to 3 teams to improve our national standings ignores a lot of things:
We're further into professionalism than we were back then. The players we had going around were still from an amateur base, and as Geoff Parkes says in https://www.theroar.com.au/2023/10/02/the-wrap-wallabies-scrape-a-win-but-the-team-and-the-code-have-entered-chinese-water-torture-territory/
Back then the game was professional in name, but not so much in practice. What was succinctly described to me by Ireland flyhalf and professional coach, David Humphries, as players doing exactly what they did as amateurs – rugby, golf, drinking – just getting paid for it.
That's a good article actually - outlines the issue of ARU/Rugby Australia resting on its laurels and failing to evolve.
The video makes huge assumptions about correlation v causation. The fact is we adopted the best bits of professionalism faster and better than everyone else. The period of our best success came under Rod Macqueen, introducing a very business-like framework for coaching and management of players. People forget he was a coach in the early years of Super 12 with the Brumbies, and the Waratahs before that.
He also had a team of all-time talent to help him, who had grown out of what was then a half-decent schools system - in that it was about as good as anyone else's.
We had rugby league right next door, who had been pro for ages, and we could learn a lot from them.
Throw in "Brumbieleague" where the attacking side got all the advantages, and it was a case of nailing a great lineout and a good scrum onto it, and wha-hey! Winning team.
I guess what the Gold Digger video misses is the evolution (or decline) of other elements in our system. Schools rugby has been shit for a long time. Club rugby has gone backwards in a lot of ways. The attempt to bring in "pathways" has convoluted the systems and just allowed more politics.
Videos like Gold Digger's aren't necessarily evil, but they're not comprehensive or measured enough. They give fuel to the old farts who say we should forget Super Rugby and go back to club when things were great. They're so far removed from reality.
I'll reference Ben Darwin again: he tweeted that it isn't too difficult to turn some of this stuff around, but we need to make sure we're all pointed in the right direction and want it.
https://twitter.com/bendarwin/status/1706233098902626558?s=20
Some of his facts remain very interesting as someone who works in data:
https://twitter.com/bendarwin/status/1707611683563458970?s=20
-
If anyone can do conviction, it’s the Aussies
I’ll get my coat
-
If anyone can do conviction, it’s the Aussies
I’ll get my coat
@MiketheSnow said in Aussie Rugby:
If anyone can do conviction, it’s the Aussies
I’ll get my coat
We pity those left behind
Enjoy freezing your balls off in winter, and an increasingly bad summer without air conditioning :winking_face_with_tongue:
-
@Catogrande I saw it a while back. I've had a few convos with him via Twitter.
His general point about cohesion is valid (I'm a fan of Ben Darwin's data on this), but the premise that we need to go back to 3 teams to improve our national standings ignores a lot of things:
We're further into professionalism than we were back then. The players we had going around were still from an amateur base, and as Geoff Parkes says in https://www.theroar.com.au/2023/10/02/the-wrap-wallabies-scrape-a-win-but-the-team-and-the-code-have-entered-chinese-water-torture-territory/
Back then the game was professional in name, but not so much in practice. What was succinctly described to me by Ireland flyhalf and professional coach, David Humphries, as players doing exactly what they did as amateurs – rugby, golf, drinking – just getting paid for it.
That's a good article actually - outlines the issue of ARU/Rugby Australia resting on its laurels and failing to evolve.
The video makes huge assumptions about correlation v causation. The fact is we adopted the best bits of professionalism faster and better than everyone else. The period of our best success came under Rod Macqueen, introducing a very business-like framework for coaching and management of players. People forget he was a coach in the early years of Super 12 with the Brumbies, and the Waratahs before that.
He also had a team of all-time talent to help him, who had grown out of what was then a half-decent schools system - in that it was about as good as anyone else's.
We had rugby league right next door, who had been pro for ages, and we could learn a lot from them.
Throw in "Brumbieleague" where the attacking side got all the advantages, and it was a case of nailing a great lineout and a good scrum onto it, and wha-hey! Winning team.
I guess what the Gold Digger video misses is the evolution (or decline) of other elements in our system. Schools rugby has been shit for a long time. Club rugby has gone backwards in a lot of ways. The attempt to bring in "pathways" has convoluted the systems and just allowed more politics.
Videos like Gold Digger's aren't necessarily evil, but they're not comprehensive or measured enough. They give fuel to the old farts who say we should forget Super Rugby and go back to club when things were great. They're so far removed from reality.
I'll reference Ben Darwin again: he tweeted that it isn't too difficult to turn some of this stuff around, but we need to make sure we're all pointed in the right direction and want it.
https://twitter.com/bendarwin/status/1706233098902626558?s=20
Some of his facts remain very interesting as someone who works in data:
https://twitter.com/bendarwin/status/1707611683563458970?s=20
@NTA said in Aussie Rugby:
The video makes huge assumptions about correlation v causation.
I was going to make that very point. The creator of the video doesn't explain why he's only using one exemplar which is a bunting of red flags for anyone who does data analysis or makes decisions based on data. Too easy to come up with erroneous conclusions.
-
Sitting at a table in a restaurant in Lyon with his wife Lucinda, her brother and his wife, an Australian fan circled his table for several minutes before pulling up a chair and placing a glass of milk in front of him.
“He ordered me to drink it,” McLennan said. “I took a sip. He told me milk was what all he and his family were all drinking following the Wales defeat.
Why do I get the feeling he omitted the part where he said drink this milk you pussy?
-
whats with the milk?
people should take responsibility for their actions...but this is too far i think
-
whats with the milk?
people should take responsibility for their actions...but this is too far i think
@Kiwiwomble it didn't say, which is why I think what the angry fan actually said was different to what he had reported.
Agree the fan over stepped but at the same time I don't feel sorry for him
-
According to the article, only Queensland holds out for the new model
*For the federated system of Australian rugby, where each state administration essentially runs its own race, the solution is seismic. The proposal McLennan and Waugh are pushing at Rugby Australia is to adopt a version of the NZ and Irish models, where decision-making is centralised.
In Australia, NSW and Queensland have long been most resistant to change. But the writing has now gotten so large on the wall that even they are finding it’s impossible to ignore. Word is that the Brumbies in Canberra, the Rebels in Victoria and the NSW Waratahs are ready to move. The Force have incredible financial backing from Twiggy and Nicola Forrest and after being garrotted by the Pulver administration in August 2017 are naturally fiercely protective of their independence. That leaves Queensland, so often the contrarians, mulling over how the new world sits with them.*
-
And predictably, a sports journalist demonstrating they know fuck all about the sport:
https://twitter.com/ChristypDoran/status/1708429693492539624@antipodean said in Aussie Rugby:
And predictably, a sports journalist demonstrating they know fuck all about the sport:
https://twitter.com/ChristypDoran/status/1708429693492539624This is the same fuckwit who wrote that article a week or so back saying we should all be grateful for Eddie, because he selflessly gave up his shot at glory in 2023 in order to nurture the next generation in time for 2027.
Shameless clickwhore.
-
According to the article, only Queensland holds out for the new model
*For the federated system of Australian rugby, where each state administration essentially runs its own race, the solution is seismic. The proposal McLennan and Waugh are pushing at Rugby Australia is to adopt a version of the NZ and Irish models, where decision-making is centralised.
In Australia, NSW and Queensland have long been most resistant to change. But the writing has now gotten so large on the wall that even they are finding it’s impossible to ignore. Word is that the Brumbies in Canberra, the Rebels in Victoria and the NSW Waratahs are ready to move. The Force have incredible financial backing from Twiggy and Nicola Forrest and after being garrotted by the Pulver administration in August 2017 are naturally fiercely protective of their independence. That leaves Queensland, so often the contrarians, mulling over how the new world sits with them.*
@bayimports said in Aussie Rugby:
Word is that the Brumbies in Canberra ... are ready to move.
Which you wouldn't believe for a minute if you read the press they're releasing. Nothing but pure vitriol, quoting their onfield success through history, and ignoring all the financial mismanagement off it.
-
@bayimports said in Aussie Rugby:
Word is that the Brumbies in Canberra ... are ready to move.
Which you wouldn't believe for a minute if you read the press they're releasing. Nothing but pure vitriol, quoting their onfield success through history, and ignoring all the financial mismanagement off it.
@NTA said in Aussie Rugby:
@bayimports said in Aussie Rugby:
Word is that the Brumbies in Canberra ... are ready to move.
Which you wouldn't believe for a minute if you read the press they're releasing. Nothing but pure vitriol, quoting their onfield success through history, and ignoring all the financial mismanagement off it.
true, although potentially out of the McLennan playbook of making lots of noise, just to ensure you get enough out of it when you have to bend.
who knows whats going on though
-
well that didn't last long ...
-
McLennan is not looking for sympathy. The decision to sack Dave Rennie and replace him with Jones in January, who himself had just been sacked by England, was a decision not without risks. He knew that. But he also knew that, in his summation, the worst thing he could have done was nothing.
I was really concerned that we would get knocked out at the pool stages, which is why we made the change from Dave to Eddie,” McLennan told Telegraph Sport.
-
McLennan is not looking for sympathy. The decision to sack Dave Rennie and replace him with Jones in January, who himself had just been sacked by England, was a decision not without risks. He knew that. But he also knew that, in his summation, the worst thing he could have done was nothing.
I was really concerned that we would get knocked out at the pool stages, which is why we made the change from Dave to Eddie,” McLennan told Telegraph Sport.
-
@bayimports said in Aussie Rugby:
Word is that the Brumbies in Canberra ... are ready to move.
Which you wouldn't believe for a minute if you read the press they're releasing. Nothing but pure vitriol, quoting their onfield success through history, and ignoring all the financial mismanagement off it.
@NTA said in Aussie Rugby:
@bayimports said in Aussie Rugby:
Word is that the Brumbies in Canberra ... are ready to move.
Which you wouldn't believe for a minute if you read the press they're releasing. Nothing but pure vitriol, quoting their onfield success through history, and ignoring all the financial mismanagement off it.
The antipathy towards RA in Canberra is palpable. They're worried that RA would move it to a more revenue friendly environment.
Of course they'd be in a better position if they didn't sell off their assets in a suspicious transaction (from the outside looking in my lawyer has advised me to say).
-
@NTA said in Aussie Rugby:
@bayimports said in Aussie Rugby:
Word is that the Brumbies in Canberra ... are ready to move.
Which you wouldn't believe for a minute if you read the press they're releasing. Nothing but pure vitriol, quoting their onfield success through history, and ignoring all the financial mismanagement off it.
The antipathy towards RA in Canberra is palpable. They're worried that RA would move it to a more revenue friendly environment.
Of course they'd be in a better position if they didn't sell off their assets in a suspicious transaction (from the outside looking in my lawyer has advised me to say).
@antipodean said in Aussie Rugby:
Of course they'd be in a better position if they didn't sell off their assets in a suspicious transaction (from the outside looking in my lawyer has advised me to say).
This is the circle of life. Or the circle of Rugby.
Everyone thinks their shit doesn't stink.
-
-
@NTA I never understand RA's fascination with getting different backs to address what is clearly a forward's problem.
@antipodean said in Aussie Rugby:
@NTA I never understand RA's fascination with getting different backs to address what is clearly a forward's problem.
That is a very good point. Maybe RA doesn't have enough ex forwards?
-
@antipodean said in Aussie Rugby:
Of course they'd be in a better position if they didn't sell off their assets in a suspicious transaction (from the outside looking in my lawyer has advised me to say).
This is the circle of life. Or the circle of Rugby.
Everyone thinks their shit doesn't stink.
@NTA said in Aussie Rugby:
This is the circle of life. Or the circle of Rugby.
Everyone thinks their shit doesn't stink.
One of my great learnings from Ian Foster is that AB shit does stink.
