Stadium of Canterbury
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I can think of lots of stuff to blame CCC for, but this isn't one of them. Lancaster Park, and everything else, was woefully underinsured, but nobody knew that until after the earthquakes. Feedback on Council plans (long term and annual) before the earthquakes was that the Council were overspending on insurance, and they should put rates up by less instead - oops.
CCC insurance was through the Local Government insurance scheme, and they still got screwed by the reinsurer and had to settle for a fixed amount for everything above ground that didn't actually cover the whole amount ($635 million for claims of $920 million in Dec 2015) because it was better than going for lengthy legal processes which would have taken years longer and no money. So it took them years to get the money, and it wasn't all the money claimed, and the money claimed wasn't enough to replace like for like because costs had skyrocketed in the 5 years it took to get the money (Lancaster Park was insured for $143 million).
So there wasn't enough money, and the Nats weren't adding to the pot - until Labour coughed up the money, the Council was expected to somehow fund a shortfall between Lancaster Park's insurance of $143 million and the actual replacement cost, and also the $285 million shortfall of pay out and actual claim, not to mention a 5 year delay in getting the money.
It's also not like they weren't doing anything else - every other major facility was wrecked at the same time, and also in need of rebuilding, and prone to the same funding and capacity issues. If this had been properly funded by central government earlier and got off the ground in 2016 like it should have, there would be still be cost blowout issues from Covid, but in other rebuild projects instead of this one.
@godder you're choosing to ignore several major points. The design eventually approved is inherently flawed due not only to its small capacity but also it's complexity and inflexibility and we're now seeing that in spades. They should have always gone for a larger open stadium using the same money. The business case could have been made to ensure the Govt still chipped in. But instead all they've done is give life to the uproar over Ed Sheeran gigs all going to Dunedin and went for a massively compromised concept in an attempt to capture those events. Now it's shrunk to smaller than FBS so won't even get that sorted. As for the delay, yeah maybe they were constrained by claim and funding delays for five years but they've had a solid give years since to build something. The CCC has made the whole process overly complicated and their incompetence is now being felt by all.
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@godder you're choosing to ignore several major points. The design eventually approved is inherently flawed due not only to its small capacity but also it's complexity and inflexibility and we're now seeing that in spades. They should have always gone for a larger open stadium using the same money. The business case could have been made to ensure the Govt still chipped in. But instead all they've done is give life to the uproar over Ed Sheeran gigs all going to Dunedin and went for a massively compromised concept in an attempt to capture those events. Now it's shrunk to smaller than FBS so won't even get that sorted. As for the delay, yeah maybe they were constrained by claim and funding delays for five years but they've had a solid give years since to build something. The CCC has made the whole process overly complicated and their incompetence is now being felt by all.
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@gt12 said in Stadium of Canterbury:
@voodoo said in Stadium of Canterbury:
@gt12 said in Stadium of Canterbury:
@chris said in Stadium of Canterbury:
@gt12 said in Stadium of Canterbury:
I agree with both points.
I think the crucial error is that history has constantly told us that time = cost.
As I might end up a local, I think it will be undersized but also great for NPC and Super rugby.
By the way if you do end up a local, welcome to the region.
May have a beer sometime
We bought land so its just a matter of time!
Beers with Chris in ChCh, Sake with me in Tokyo, full of bloody promises.... you sound like a local Christchurch politician...
Ha ha, the sake with you (or anyone) can be had tomorrow. Come up!
Scottie says I'm not allowed to leave
@voodoo said in Stadium of Canterbury:
@gt12 said in Stadium of Canterbury:
@voodoo said in Stadium of Canterbury:
@gt12 said in Stadium of Canterbury:
@chris said in Stadium of Canterbury:
@gt12 said in Stadium of Canterbury:
I agree with both points.
I think the crucial error is that history has constantly told us that time = cost.
As I might end up a local, I think it will be undersized but also great for NPC and Super rugby.
By the way if you do end up a local, welcome to the region.
May have a beer sometimeWe bought land so its just a matter of time!
Beers with Chris in ChCh, Sake with me in Tokyo, full of bloody promises.... you sound like a local Christchurch politician...
Ha ha, the sake with you (or anyone) can be had tomorrow. Come up!
Scottie says I'm not allowed to leave
only one person in Queensland is allowed to go to Japan. And it is not me
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@voodoo said in Stadium of Canterbury:
@gt12 said in Stadium of Canterbury:
@voodoo said in Stadium of Canterbury:
@gt12 said in Stadium of Canterbury:
@chris said in Stadium of Canterbury:
@gt12 said in Stadium of Canterbury:
I agree with both points.
I think the crucial error is that history has constantly told us that time = cost.
As I might end up a local, I think it will be undersized but also great for NPC and Super rugby.
By the way if you do end up a local, welcome to the region.
May have a beer sometimeWe bought land so its just a matter of time!
Beers with Chris in ChCh, Sake with me in Tokyo, full of bloody promises.... you sound like a local Christchurch politician...
Ha ha, the sake with you (or anyone) can be had tomorrow. Come up!
Scottie says I'm not allowed to leave
only one person in Queensland is allowed to go to Japan. And it is not me
@mariner4life fucking gold! and they weren't just allowed, they were TOLD!
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It all seems a bit pointless to me really. I'm very pessimistic about future of pro rugby in NZ anyway.
ABs will be in Washington DC during the NPC.
Dont even 'get' anymore what we're trying to earn this foreign revenue to protect or maintain.
A 10,000 capacity is probably too big for Chch.
Probably wrong thread. NZRU have wasted 2 winters of pandemic. Slaves to test rugby. The value of which diminishes year by year. Even Albany got a Boks test. Even Nelson got a test. Decline and fall.
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It all seems a bit pointless to me really. I'm very pessimistic about future of pro rugby in NZ anyway.
ABs will be in Washington DC during the NPC.
Dont even 'get' anymore what we're trying to earn this foreign revenue to protect or maintain.
A 10,000 capacity is probably too big for Chch.
Probably wrong thread. NZRU have wasted 2 winters of pandemic. Slaves to test rugby. The value of which diminishes year by year. Even Albany got a Boks test. Even Nelson got a test. Decline and fall.
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@rapido said in Stadium of Canterbury:
Even Albany got a Boks test. Even Nelson got a test. Decline and fall.
Don't understand your point here.
@dogmeat said in Stadium of Canterbury:
@rapido said in Stadium of Canterbury:
Even Albany got a Boks test. Even Nelson got a test. Decline and fall.
Don't understand your point here.
i think the point was NH stadium got a Boks (big) test with a capacity of 25k
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Yes, partly.
Even Albany with 25k and 1 grandstand can get a blue riband test.
But also, where I digressed off topic - NZRU have a business model reliant on a single team playing 14 to 16 tests a year to pay the bills. Yet they haven't carried the public (or the next generation) with them. Boks v All Blacks in the 3rd biggest stadium in the city ... could you imagine that 20 or 30 years ago.
It's the trend I'm trying to highlight.
How does it relate to new Chch stadium? That even in reduced version it is way too big for Canterbury rugby, about right for All Black rugby (sadly) - but for long? if we don't address the trend and re-engage the public in sub-All Black rugby.
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Yes, partly.
Even Albany with 25k and 1 grandstand can get a blue riband test.
But also, where I digressed off topic - NZRU have a business model reliant on a single team playing 14 to 16 tests a year to pay the bills. Yet they haven't carried the public (or the next generation) with them. Boks v All Blacks in the 3rd biggest stadium in the city ... could you imagine that 20 or 30 years ago.
It's the trend I'm trying to highlight.
How does it relate to new Chch stadium? That even in reduced version it is way too big for Canterbury rugby, about right for All Black rugby (sadly) - but for long? if we don't address the trend and re-engage the public in sub-All Black rugby.
@rapido said in Stadium of Canterbury:
How does it relate to new Chch stadium? That even in reduced version it is too big if we don't address the trend and re-engage the public in sub-All Black rugby.
It was interesting to see part of the WEL Network stand empty for the All Blacks v Fiji game in Hamilton recently. While there was some social media chat about perhaps it was closed due to earthquake concerns, I'm sure I saw a promo about 'last tickets still available' just a few days before the game.
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Yes, partly.
Even Albany with 25k and 1 grandstand can get a blue riband test.
But also, where I digressed off topic - NZRU have a business model reliant on a single team playing 14 to 16 tests a year to pay the bills. Yet they haven't carried the public (or the next generation) with them. Boks v All Blacks in the 3rd biggest stadium in the city ... could you imagine that 20 or 30 years ago.
It's the trend I'm trying to highlight.
How does it relate to new Chch stadium? That even in reduced version it is way too big for Canterbury rugby, about right for All Black rugby (sadly) - but for long? if we don't address the trend and re-engage the public in sub-All Black rugby.
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@rapido said in Stadium of Canterbury:
How does it relate to new Chch stadium? That even in reduced version it is too big if we don't address the trend and re-engage the public in sub-All Black rugby.
It was interesting to see part of the WEL Network stand empty for the All Blacks v Fiji game in Hamilton recently. While there was some social media chat about perhaps it was closed due to earthquake concerns, I'm sure I saw a promo about 'last tickets still available' just a few days before the game.
@donsteppa said in Stadium of Canterbury:
It was interesting to see part of the WEL Network stand empty for the All Blacks v Fiji game in Hamilton recently. While there was some social media chat about perhaps it was closed due to earthquake concerns
I have since been told it definitely wasn't allowed to be opened. In the last couple of years the entire WEL Network stand is closed for NPC, and everyone is seated in the Brian Perry Stand. That will be down to the cost.
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@donsteppa said in Stadium of Canterbury:
It was interesting to see part of the WEL Network stand empty for the All Blacks v Fiji game in Hamilton recently. While there was some social media chat about perhaps it was closed due to earthquake concerns
I have since been told it definitely wasn't allowed to be opened. In the last couple of years the entire WEL Network stand is closed for NPC, and everyone is seated in the Brian Perry Stand. That will be down to the cost.
@bovidae said in Stadium of Canterbury:
@donsteppa said in Stadium of Canterbury:
It was interesting to see part of the WEL Network stand empty for the All Blacks v Fiji game in Hamilton recently. While there was some social media chat about perhaps it was closed due to earthquake concerns
I have since been told it definitely wasn't allowed to be opened. In the last couple of years the entire WEL Network stand is closed for NPC, and everyone is seated in the Brian Perry Stand. That will be down to the cost.
Aha, hopefully there are earthquake strengthening plans being developed.
Interesting that there were still tickets available so close to game day with reduced capacity. To be fair, I'm one of those who looked at the varying ticket prices for a family of four in Hamilton in the middle of winter and decided against it...
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this is a rant worthy of the Fern.
when you start calling people gutless in a published article, you're probably not advancing strong rational arguments.
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this is a rant worthy of the Fern.
when you start calling people gutless in a published article, you're probably not advancing strong rational arguments.
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this is a rant worthy of the Fern.
when you start calling people gutless in a published article, you're probably not advancing strong rational arguments.
@nzzp said in Stadium of Canterbury:
this is a rant worthy of the Fern.
when you start calling people gutless in a published article, you're probably not advancing strong rational arguments.
I would be interested in seeing how Dunedin is laughing all the way to the bank - is there any facts around whether this actually makes money? I would imagine no way to covering the cost of it, outside of indirect money into the local economy.
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@nzzp said in Stadium of Canterbury:
this is a rant worthy of the Fern.
when you start calling people gutless in a published article, you're probably not advancing strong rational arguments.
I would be interested in seeing how Dunedin is laughing all the way to the bank - is there any facts around whether this actually makes money? I would imagine no way to covering the cost of it, outside of indirect money into the local economy.
@machpants isn't that the case with pretty much all stadia? none make money in their own right, but the suppliers (food, cleaners etc) do and the wider community (hotels, bars etc) does
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@machpants isn't that the case with pretty much all stadia? none make money in their own right, but the suppliers (food, cleaners etc) do and the wider community (hotels, bars etc) does
@kiwiwomble said in Stadium of Canterbury:
@machpants isn't that the case with pretty much all stadia? none make money in their own right, but the suppliers (food, cleaners etc) do and the wider community (hotels, bars etc) does
pretty much spot on. Stadia are not a sensible investment from a direct $$$ point of view. But then, neither is a community swimming pool or library - you have to figure out the intangible contribution as well, and that's where people's perspective skews wildly.
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@kiwiwomble said in Stadium of Canterbury:
@machpants isn't that the case with pretty much all stadia? none make money in their own right, but the suppliers (food, cleaners etc) do and the wider community (hotels, bars etc) does
pretty much spot on. Stadia are not a sensible investment from a direct $$$ point of view. But then, neither is a community swimming pool or library - you have to figure out the intangible contribution as well, and that's where people's perspective skews wildly.
@nzzp i guess there is a simple test, i dont think there are many (any?) companies that just own and run stadia, they all generally seem to be owned either by the main sports team that play there and so their finances are bundled up in lots of other things or by councils/government in which case they are "for the greater good"
...if they made money, someone would be out there perfecting running them and making money doing it
