All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.
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That philosophy is a pretty firm line. Mostly because the incumbent rarely gets dropped outright, and injuries occur
regularly. The last one i can remember is Cory Jane being injured in 2013 and being usurped forever by some crappy utility called Ben Smith. Maybe Crockett being the top loose head for a game last year at RWC when woody finished up injured, before being injured himselfand losing out to moody. -
I'm going to add a slight voice of caution in all the excitement around BB this year. Yes, he has taken his chances, has improved in many aspects and is in a great run of form. All you can ask of really and he fully deserves his place.
Where my concern lies is that we haven't seen him under pressure, haven't seen how he controls a game when not on the front foot.
Our opposition has been so poor this year so far that Wales probably gave us our toughest moments. We held our own waiting for them to wither and then cut loose when going forward. What happens on that day where a team holds out for 80 minutes? Is BB the man to guide us into position?
I'm fairly sure that the overall team can and will overcome anything currently being thrown at them and I'm not advocating dumping Barrett at all.
I just have reservations that he may not be the complete answer. -
I'm going to add a slight voice of caution in all the excitement around BB this year. Yes, he has taken his chances, has improved in many aspects and is in a great run of form. All you can ask of really and he fully deserves his place.
Where my concern lies is that we haven't seen him under pressure, haven't seen how he controls a game when not on the front foot.
Our opposition has been so poor this year so far that Wales probably gave us our toughest moments. We held our own waiting for them to wither and then cut loose when going forward. What happens on that day where a team holds out for 80 minutes? Is BB the man to guide us into position?
I'm fairly sure that the overall team can and will overcome anything currently being thrown at them and I'm not advocating dumping Barrett at all.
I just have reservations that he may not be the complete answer.You've got to give Beaudy the benefit of the doubt when it comes to playing under pressure. He has played some seriously high pressure games at fullback coming off the bench and came through with flying colours.
That game at Ellis Park two years ago where he single handedly gave up the lead then took it back a minute later told me all I needed to know about his mental fortitude under pressure.
Five eighth is different sure. We also haven't seen how he deals with shitty service from halfback and hopefully we won't need to.
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You've got to give Beaudy the benefit of the doubt when it comes to playing under pressure. He has played some seriously high pressure games at fullback coming off the bench and came through with flying colours.
That game at Ellis Park two years ago where he single handedly gave up the lead then took it back a minute later told me all I needed to know about his mental fortitude under pressure.
Five eighth is different sure. We also haven't seen how he deals with shitty service from halfback and hopefully we won't need to.
@rotated said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
You've got to give Beaudy the benefit of the doubt when it comes to playing under pressure. He has played some seriously high pressure games at fullback coming off the bench and came through with flying colours.
That game at Ellis Park two years ago where he single handedly gave up the lead then took it back a minute later told me all I needed to know about his mental fortitude under pressure.
Five eighth is different sure. We also haven't seen how he deals with shitty service from halfback and hopefully we won't need to.
More the wonder of how he can control a pressured game from 10. We have seen him have to deal with shitty service (from TJP) but it was still going forward.
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I'm going to add a slight voice of caution in all the excitement around BB this year. Yes, he has taken his chances, has improved in many aspects and is in a great run of form. All you can ask of really and he fully deserves his place.
Where my concern lies is that we haven't seen him under pressure, haven't seen how he controls a game when not on the front foot.
Our opposition has been so poor this year so far that Wales probably gave us our toughest moments. We held our own waiting for them to wither and then cut loose when going forward. What happens on that day where a team holds out for 80 minutes? Is BB the man to guide us into position?
I'm fairly sure that the overall team can and will overcome anything currently being thrown at them and I'm not advocating dumping Barrett at all.
I just have reservations that he may not be the complete answer. -
A Super Rugby Final is a good indicator of how pressure is coped wtih.
He is fine under pressure it seems.
A game like the 2011 RWC final is what I would consider to be a pressure game because that was a grind (irrerspective of the occasion). We've been fortunate that the ABs have been playing at a level above the opposition this season so have been able to up the tempo when required.
I really hope Aust make it a difficult game on Sat.
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A game like the 2011 RWC final is what I would consider to be a pressure game because that was a grind (irrerspective of the occasion). We've been fortunate that the ABs have been playing at a level above the opposition this season so have been able to up the tempo when required.
I really hope Aust make it a difficult game on Sat.
@Bovidae said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
A game like the 2011 RWC final is what I would consider to be a pressure game because that was a grind (irrerspective of the occasion).
So the ABs have rarely had a game of that pressure in the past 4 or 5 years then....so we don't know what most of our guys are like under pressure
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
A game like the 2011 RWC final is what I would consider to be a pressure game because that was a grind (irrerspective of the occasion).
So the ABs have rarely had a game of that pressure in the past 4 or 5 years then....so we don't know what most of our guys are like under pressure
@taniwharugby Of course the ABs have been under periods of pressure, like in the 1st and 2nd tests against Wales this year, and vs Arg in Hamilton. BUT not for the full 80 mins. As I said, that's a credit to the team.
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@rotated said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
You've got to give Beaudy the benefit of the doubt when it comes to playing under pressure. He has played some seriously high pressure games at fullback coming off the bench and came through with flying colours.
That game at Ellis Park two years ago where he single handedly gave up the lead then took it back a minute later told me all I needed to know about his mental fortitude under pressure.
Five eighth is different sure. We also haven't seen how he deals with shitty service from halfback and hopefully we won't need to.
More the wonder of how he can control a pressured game from 10. We have seen him have to deal with shitty service (from TJP) but it was still going forward.
@Crucial said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@rotated said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
You've got to give Beaudy the benefit of the doubt when it comes to playing under pressure. He has played some seriously high pressure games at fullback coming off the bench and came through with flying colours.
That game at Ellis Park two years ago where he single handedly gave up the lead then took it back a minute later told me all I needed to know about his mental fortitude under pressure.
Five eighth is different sure. We also haven't seen how he deals with shitty service from halfback and hopefully we won't need to.
More the wonder of how he can control a pressured game from 10. We have seen him have to deal with shitty service (from TJP) but it was still going forward.
We may not see that until we play England ( with emphasis on the word may ) I think it's not rocket science Eddie will attempt to beat us up front and take away that front foot ball .
Easier said than done obviously . -
My point is more that we haven't been under such pressure that BB has had to take hold of the game tactically and steer us around.
He still looks to me that if there isn't an opportunity for him to make a break he shovels it on (or kicks if a clearance is required). I have yet to see much evidence of DC like 'quarterback' stuff where he would take ownership of steering the plays.
I'm not saying it is a flaw or that he can't do it just that we haven't seen him have to do it so there is little to go on.
I really do think we have had it quite easy during the TRC.Hopefully I am wrong and we smash the Convicts again despite them being up for a hard game. I just have a suspicion we may get more of a match than many pundits think.
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What about the Super Rugby Final. That was more high pressure than any test we have had?
It's a bit of a mickey mouse non comaprison you are making when you talk about pressure. Hindsight being 20/20 and all that, before the series started there would have been pressure.
I call it confidence, he has that in spades
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Still missing my point. I haven't said he can't cope under pressure, someone else brought that up.
I'm saying he hasn't had to steer around a tight test match. Is he able to step up in the way DC used to when the 10 needed to control the game.
At present he is playing great because the team performance is allowing him to ply his natural game. Long may that be the case. I'm just not calling him the complete article because I haven't seen him have to play those cards.
As an example, have we seen a performance from him like DC had to pull out in the RWC Semi? -
Still missing my point. I haven't said he can't cope under pressure, someone else brought that up.
I'm saying he hasn't had to steer around a tight test match. Is he able to step up in the way DC used to when the 10 needed to control the game.
At present he is playing great because the team performance is allowing him to ply his natural game. Long may that be the case. I'm just not calling him the complete article because I haven't seen him have to play those cards.
As an example, have we seen a performance from him like DC had to pull out in the RWC Semi?@Crucial but has the way he played been a factor in allowing the ABs to play as they had, thus not be forced to play under pressure...chicken-egg
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I'm going to add a slight voice of caution in all the excitement around BB this year. Yes, he has taken his chances, has improved in many aspects and is in a great run of form. All you can ask of really and he fully deserves his place.
Where my concern lies is that we haven't seen him under pressure, haven't seen how he controls a game when not on the front foot.
Our opposition has been so poor this year so far that Wales probably gave us our toughest moments. We held our own waiting for them to wither and then cut loose when going forward. What happens on that day where a team holds out for 80 minutes? Is BB the man to guide us into position?
I'm fairly sure that the overall team can and will overcome anything currently being thrown at them and I'm not advocating dumping Barrett at all.
I just have reservations that he may not be the complete answer.@Crucial said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
I'm going to add a slight voice of caution in all the excitement around BB this year. Yes, he has taken his chances, has improved in many aspects and is in a great run of form. All you can ask of really and he fully deserves his place.
Where my concern lies is that we haven't seen him under pressure, haven't seen how he controls a game when not on the front foot.
Our opposition has been so poor this year so far that Wales probably gave us our toughest moments. We held our own waiting for them to wither and then cut loose when going forward. What happens on that day where a team holds out for 80 minutes? Is BB the man to guide us into position?
I'm fairly sure that the overall team can and will overcome anything currently being thrown at them and I'm not advocating dumping Barrett at all.
I just have reservations that he may not be the complete answer.Fark me, what more do you want the guy to do? Pack into the scrums, throw into the lineouts? The abs were under plenty of pressure against Argentina until BB carved them up and ended the game as a contest. It's not like the guy has just shown up this year. He's been an ab since late 2012. He's played in a rwc final. You can bitch all you want about his goalkicking (which is a real concern, but handling pressure? That's just weird.
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Carter the quarterback is a bit of a misnomer though isn't it? He didn't really add drop goals to his repotoire until after the 2011 RWC, and had some poor returns against a monster Bok pack in the late 00s - one particular game in Hamilton stands out.
There were never the same doubts that seem to be there for Barrett.
Beaudy has excelled at fullback in all the close games against the Boks over the past 5 years, including the semi final. He was a stand out.
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Sacrilege!!
On that note I did think BB looked a little pressured early on in the recent test v SA.
Why woul you "hope" Cruden isn't given an opportunity to prove he is good enough to start?
@booboo said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
Why woul you "hope" Cruden isn't given an opportunity to prove he is good enough to start?
It was a more general statement than that - i hope that if someone improves enough to have surpassed an incumbent while they've been injured - and deserves to hold their starting position - that they hold it. the injured player deserves to be back in the squad, but i don't think they should have a right to immediately start again if someone else is playing better than they were pre-injury. a guarantee of 'back in the squad' means the coach can assess those players and decide who they want to start for the good of the team without being beholden to some statement that players don't lose their spot while they're injured - and it gives the injured guys enough security.
on the specific situation, i already know cruden is good enough to start - but i hope barrett starts because i think he's the better player, and the 10,12,13 has been working very well last couple of games - keep it going i say.
