All Blacks v Ireland II
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Kinsella has now done another analysis piece. This time on BB
http://www.the42.ie/analysis-beauden-barrett-magic-ireland-all-blacks-3093708-Nov2016/
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I thought this was a surprisingly balanced and insightful piece
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/nov/20/ireland-new-zealand-match-report-autumn-internationals-rugby-unionLast week, the notion was mooted that the threshold for a high tackle in age-group rugby be lowered to the waist. That is the kind of measure the senior game needs if World Rugby is serious about the campaign against concussion. For as long as high shots to the upper body are coached, practised and celebrated, there will be unavoidable head-high tackles. To celebrate the one and condemn the other with the ultimate sanctions is a hypocrisy no sport should countenance.
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NZ do have a discipline problem because we don't have the ball. Best way to fix that would be bigger/better pack and to contest more rucks, although that sort of change would need to be weighed up with pros and cons.
In the penalty count accross the 2 games: our discipline was actually poor in Chicago, the only penalty there I had an issue with was the very first in that match - A Smith being penalised for coming around when the ball plopped out of a ruck and Murray (I think) just left it there.
Very similar to what Smith was carded for in game 2. Both wrong.
there were also some inconsistency with sheparding at kickoffs, but our kick offs were mostly crap anyway and their's were good. No big deal.
In this game I didn't realty have an issue with our discipline, I thought Peyper had a shocker. Canes collision counter towards the first card, including the Smith 'foul'. I think it was 4 consecutive penalties plus maybe a penalty advantage. 1 of those was harsh, 1 was wrong, the advantage was for a collapsed maul (haven't seen it replayed as Smith for carded I think almost straight after) but at the time I was yelling at the tv as Irish knees had touched ground earlier in the maul.
I think Read was then lucky not to be carded, but I also think that situation only occurred because NZ were a man down for an erroneous card (even though that scrum was analysed earlier in thread and Heaslip detached and reattached, in that situation ref doesn't have benefit of videos and trying to work out which of the 3 illegal almost simulaneous things happened first) . Read could have gone. Probably should have if Peyper hadn't 'reset' his internal count.
Sometimes when I watch a match and then come on here to the thread, you have to wade through a few pages of the in-match thread with Kearns like venting at the ref, and I'm bemused at all the stuff I never noticed. This time I was affirmatively nodding .....
But Fekitoa made me lose my shit, and momentarily hit the FF button. Dumbest foul in a long time, from so many perspectives ( game situation, ref situation)
But, like the lessons from Cardiff. Need to work out a way to put this back in control. If in first half Peyper was just blowing a homer, then I have no answers. If he's blowing that way because memories of our discipline in Chicago are fresh Etc then that's a fault of ours we can actually do something about. By second half when a first half homer kept penalties piling up and then you compound it with a stupid head high (like Chicago) then we get what we deserve. We're putting something retrievable back beyond our control.
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Our discipline was terrible in Chicago, indefensible, and a major contributor to our defeat.
In Dublin, I was fuming by the end. I just felt we got nothing at ruck-time all game from Peyper. I haven't rewatched the match, but did Ireland concede a single ruck penalty aside from a holding on I can recall? We certainly got pinged at least 3 times in the 2nd half at the ruck. I'm a bit like Hansen I just want consistency, and I felt we didn't get that at the tackle ball/ruck. That is actually my major gripe with his display, not our YCs and the Irish non-YCs.
The good news is we have Wayne Barnes this week.
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Our discipline was terrible in Chicago, indefensible, and a major contributor to our defeat.
In Dublin, I was fuming by the end. I just felt we got nothing at ruck-time all game from Peyper. I haven't rewatched the match, but did Ireland concede a single ruck penalty aside from a holding on I can recall? We certainly got pinged at least 3 times in the 2nd half at the ruck. I'm a bit like Hansen I just want consistency, and I felt we didn't get that at the tackle ball/ruck. That is actually my major gripe with his display, not our YCs and the Irish non-YCs.
The good news is we have Wayne Barnes this week.
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@booboo said in Ireland II:
@Billy-Tell said in Ireland II:
The good news is we have Wayne Barnes this week.
Oh good.
C'mon, you know you love his headmaster approach, mixed with a dose of conviviality ("well done Kieran, bien joué Pascal") spiced up with some schoolboy French "lâchez sept", a no interference approach to the breakdown, and his ability to find an arcane law written in small print from 1906 to pull out at a crucial moment.
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Speaking of Barnes, here is having some banter with Haskell:
https://www.facebook.com/JamesHaskellJHHF/videos/1316061731759754/
@Milk said in Ireland II:
Speaking of Barnes, here is having some banter with Haskell:
https://www.facebook.com/JamesHaskellJHHF/videos/1316061731759754/
Banter
Bonhomie
Chumminess
Chinwag
"tête-à-tête" -
@Crucial
"also a complete failure to recognise the betterment of Irish rugby under a NZ coach and Australian development manager."There are certain people who don't like Joe in Ireland, generally related to provincial rivalries. Most of us love the guy. Especially those of us from Leinster. That he's a genuinely nice bloke as well only adds to it.
There are a lot of people who don't like Nucifora though. Again, predominantly provincially motivated. He's playing a long game in Irish rugby and a lot of people don't look past this week/month/season. They want their teams to win now, regardless of what that means for them or Ireland in 5-10 years time. Sadly I think a lot of the work he's doing will only come to fruition when he's gone and he won't get the credit, but I hear he's a thick neck on him so won't be losing any sleep over that.
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I've only read Irish media in the last few years since they've become good and others have started linking Kinsella articles. And I don't know what is their main stream.
But I've found it among the best rugby media. The 42 and Kinsella is clearly best in world, another was quite good - can't remember which, may have been pundit arena.
Ireland looks like good place to be if you are a broad sports fan. (Like Aussie they have 2 domestic sports leagues unaffected by external economics. Decent international and domestic rugby, premier league on same time zone with Irish players (and teams with long Irish connections like Liverpool and Celtic), plus international soccer in an interesting confederation.
Jealous.
In contrast. We now have domestic rugby reduced to 5 teams and only half our players. Soccer in a joke confederation, plus the blackcaps and the Warriors.
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Ok - I've watched the game twice now - without interruption.
All I've got to say is:
What the fuck was Henshaw playing at trying to hit Cane's shoulder/head with his head whilst pirouetting on the spot?
Can Zebo not run fast enough without being caught by some two-bit arm-swinging Kiwi winger?
Sexton's tackle is a penalty try all day, every day, and I'm glad there are some journalists in Ireland who actually agree with me
Tadgh Furlong. Tadgh fucking Furlong! Did you see him move and fend those three players in a row?
Paddy Jackson coming on the pitch is like being handed a Morris Minor in the middle of an F1 duel.
Beauden Barrett. Beauden fucking Barrett! If NZ had 14 other players like him, they'd be a pretty good team.
Why has Dane Coles turned into a hothead? And a snarly one at that?
van der Flier is The Business. Good luck Seanie.
How come NZ didn't play those two lock fellas in the Chicago game, yiz would have been much better?
How the holy, motherfucking fuck of a fuck did Ireland go from scoring 5 tries to 0 tries? To finish such a game with three fucking penalties, and turned down some kicks, is a shitballs return.
It may just be me, but I'm getting sick and tired of every player under the sun rushing in to obscure the view everytime there's an attempted maul over the line. You can't bloody see a thing. Either you're in the maul from the start, or else fuck off out of the way and stop trying to stick a hand into the mess afterwards whilst claiming that you stopped the ball single-handedly and making sure the camera can't see a damn thing.Tackles? What tackles?
I demand a third test. Cancel the Frogs immediately and get your asses back to Dublin - tell the Wallabies to wait till we've finished.
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Our discipline was terrible in Chicago, indefensible, and a major contributor to our defeat.
In Dublin, I was fuming by the end. I just felt we got nothing at ruck-time all game from Peyper. I haven't rewatched the match, but did Ireland concede a single ruck penalty aside from a holding on I can recall? We certainly got pinged at least 3 times in the 2nd half at the ruck. I'm a bit like Hansen I just want consistency, and I felt we didn't get that at the tackle ball/ruck. That is actually my major gripe with his display, not our YCs and the Irish non-YCs.
The good news is we have Wayne Barnes this week.
@Billy-Tell said in Ireland II:
Our discipline was terrible in Chicago, indefensible, and a major contributor to our defeat.
In Dublin, I was fuming by the end. I just felt we got nothing at ruck-time all game from Peyper. I haven't rewatched the match, but did Ireland concede a single ruck penalty aside from a holding on I can recall? We certainly got pinged at least 3 times in the 2nd half at the ruck. I'm a bit like Hansen I just want consistency, and I felt we didn't get that at the tackle ball/ruck. That is actually my major gripe with his display, not our YCs and the Irish non-YCs.
The good news is we have Wayne Barnes this week.
I was fuming as well with peyper display. I'm normally pretty chilled watching the game, but this was unbelievable
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@Pot-Hale said in Ireland II:
Eh I call bullshit on that. There are plenty of good sports journalists operating in Ireland across a number of sports. Just because you're getting embarrassed by the actions of a few eejits (on a par with plenty of other countries) doesn't mean you have to go to the other extreme and throw everyone under the bus.
As for public comments sections, well everyone's got an opinion. Just like me in this one.
Our high profile rugby and soccer journalism is atrocious. Murray Kinsella is terrific but the masses aren't reading through pages of statistics and bar charts to better their knowledge of the game.
They are reading the one eyed, bitter and often silly ramblings of the many hacks employed by the Times, the Independent and the Examiner. They're listening to the shocking commentary of clowns like Nugent, Sheehan or that incredibly one eyed Northern fella on Sky and getting their analysis from fools like George Hook, Eamon Dunphy and Trevor Francis.
@munstergreen I think Gerry Thornley at the Irish Times is usually pretty good in his analysis. Liam Toland is a cock and don't get me started on Gavin Cumiskey
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@nzzp said in Ireland II:
@Rapido said in Ireland II:
You've been particularly good this weekend. Not watching the game and therefore not Really commenting on it. That's how we like foreign fans the best.
@Pot-Hale has been good as he hasn't down the rabbit hole with the rest of the Irish media, believing that there is corruption at the top level in sport, that the ABs shouldn't have had two tries awarded, and that the All Blacks deliberately and cynically opponents knowing that the refs won't touch them.
All this hoo hah has taken the gloss off a magnificently physical test match that was a pleasure to watch.
You forgot to mention the one about the TMO being Welsh and not wanting Ireland to look good in front of Gatland. Seriously, I've seen that repeated a few times and not in jest.
And the old 'the ref doesn't respect our captain' one. FFS he showed him too much respect. He should have been doing a threatening reach into the pocket when Best interrupted the conversion.@Crucial I thought that was one of the worst lack of gamesmanship I have seen in a long time, right as we were taking the conversion. Who the fuck does Best think he is? It's not cricket with a referral system. It was piss poor and another reason why I,'ll be supporting the convicts this weekend (which pains me no end)
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Nah. I can understand Best coming out. With the uncertainty in last year about big screen replays and refs changing their mind as long as the conversion isn't taken yet.
It's a mess, but it's a mess of the officials own making and precedents. I guess Best has set a new precedent though.
Wound have been funny though if Peyper judged it an early charge .....
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Ok - I've watched the game twice now - without interruption.
All I've got to say is:
What the fuck was Henshaw playing at trying to hit Cane's shoulder/head with his head whilst pirouetting on the spot?
Can Zebo not run fast enough without being caught by some two-bit arm-swinging Kiwi winger?
Sexton's tackle is a penalty try all day, every day, and I'm glad there are some journalists in Ireland who actually agree with me
Tadgh Furlong. Tadgh fucking Furlong! Did you see him move and fend those three players in a row?
Paddy Jackson coming on the pitch is like being handed a Morris Minor in the middle of an F1 duel.
Beauden Barrett. Beauden fucking Barrett! If NZ had 14 other players like him, they'd be a pretty good team.
Why has Dane Coles turned into a hothead? And a snarly one at that?
van der Flier is The Business. Good luck Seanie.
How come NZ didn't play those two lock fellas in the Chicago game, yiz would have been much better?
How the holy, motherfucking fuck of a fuck did Ireland go from scoring 5 tries to 0 tries? To finish such a game with three fucking penalties, and turned down some kicks, is a shitballs return.
It may just be me, but I'm getting sick and tired of every player under the sun rushing in to obscure the view everytime there's an attempted maul over the line. You can't bloody see a thing. Either you're in the maul from the start, or else fuck off out of the way and stop trying to stick a hand into the mess afterwards whilst claiming that you stopped the ball single-handedly and making sure the camera can't see a damn thing.Tackles? What tackles?
I demand a third test. Cancel the Frogs immediately and get your asses back to Dublin - tell the Wallabies to wait till we've finished.
@Pot-Hale said in Ireland II:
Ok - I've watched the game twice now - without interruption.
All I've got to say is:
What the fuck was Henshaw playing at trying to hit Cane's shoulder/head with his head whilst pirouetting on the spot?
Can Zebo not run fast enough without being caught by some two-bit arm-swinging Kiwi winger?
Sexton's tackle is a penalty try all day, every day, and I'm glad there are some journalists in Ireland who actually agree with me
Tadgh Furlong. Tadgh fucking Furlong! Did you see him move and fend those three players in a row?
Paddy Jackson coming on the pitch is like being handed a Morris Minor in the middle of an F1 duel.
Beauden Barrett. Beauden fucking Barrett! If NZ had 14 other players like him, they'd be a pretty good team.
Why has Dane Coles turned into a hothead? And a snarly one at that?
van der Flier is The Business. Good luck Seanie.
How come NZ didn't play those two lock fellas in the Chicago game, yiz would have been much better?
How the holy, motherfucking fuck of a fuck did Ireland go from scoring 5 tries to 0 tries? To finish such a game with three fucking penalties, and turned down some kicks, is a shitballs return.
It may just be me, but I'm getting sick and tired of every player under the sun rushing in to obscure the view everytime there's an attempted maul over the line. You can't bloody see a thing. Either you're in the maul from the start, or else fuck off out of the way and stop trying to stick a hand into the mess afterwards whilst claiming that you stopped the ball single-handedly and making sure the camera can't see a damn thing.Tackles? What tackles?
I demand a third test. Cancel the Frogs immediately and get your asses back to Dublin - tell the Wallabies to wait till we've finished.
I'd be up for a third test, for sure!
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Nah. I can understand Best coming out. With the uncertainty in last year about big screen replays and refs changing their mind as long as the conversion isn't taken yet.
It's a mess, but it's a mess of the officials own making and precedents. I guess Best has set a new precedent though.
Wound have been funny though if Peyper judged it an early charge .....
@Rapido said in Ireland II:
Nah. I can understand Best coming out. With the uncertainty in last year about big screen replays and refs changing their mind as long as the conversion isn't taken yet.
It's a mess, but it's a mess of the officials own making and precedents. I guess Best has set a new precedent though.
Wound have been funny though if Peyper judged it an early charge .....
In fairness, it wasn't "right as NZ were taking the conversion". Best had already started to walk out towards the ref as Barrett started to walk back up the pitch with the tee to set it down for where he wanted to take the kick. Best then stopped, the camera cuts away and then back to a wide shot and Best is being urged to ask the question by the team so he keeps going towards Pepyer albeit it appears reluctantly.
If there was a question about a forward pass, then I'd have done the same. Barrett was still settling the ball on the tee and I suspect knew what Best was going to ask. Barrett converted anyway so hey ho.
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I'll just put this bit in here for my Idol of the Week award.
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I'll just put this bit in here for my Idol of the Week award.
